Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[Taken]

So is your private interpretation of scripture more accurate by ignoring the teachers God placed in the Church?

Do you think the matter is a DEBATE BETWEEN;

"a collective group of men "interpretations" of the Scriptures and creating a CREED";

AND

"An Individuals personal "interpretations" of the Scriptures" ?

And WHO should BELIEVE WHOM?

There is NOT ONE SCRIPTURE that STATES...
"ANY MAN" is capable "OF" INTERPRETATING" the WORD OF GOD.

The Hearing of and the Reading of Scriptures is for RECEIVING...KNOWLEDGE....

Any man can BELIEVE the KNOWLEDGE...
OR NOT. <---- THAT SIMPLE.

The "UNDERSTANDING" of the "KNOWLEDGE"
ONLY COMES FROM GOD! <- the MYSTERY!

There is NO SUCH THING, as an accurate "INTERPRETATION" of "the WORD OF GOD",
"MADE" by ANY MAN; individually, privately, in their home, in a Church, or a group effort.

While you TEACH you have chosen to FOLLOW CREEDS of men who have "Collectively as a group...interpreted" what Scripture MEANS....
AND TEACH, others to do the SAME AS YOU, because "YOU BELIEVE" other mens INTERPRETATIONS...ARE VALID...

Other men CHOOSE to TRUST what Scripture teaches...

Hear, Read, Believe, Repent, Confess, Receive Christ's Conversion.......AND "HE" will GIVE THAT INDIVIDUAL (the interpretation) ie "Gods Understanding" of Gods WORD".

Glory TO God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Do you think the matter is a DEBATE BETWEEN;

"a collective group of men "interpretations" of the Scriptures and creating a CREED";

AND

"An Individuals personal "interpretations" of the Scriptures" ?

And WHO should BELIEVE WHOM?

There is NOT ONE SCRIPTURE that STATES...
"ANY MAN" is capable "OF" INTERPRETATING" the WORD OF GOD.

The Hearing of and the Reading of Scriptures is for RECEIVING...KNOWLEDGE....

Any man can BELIEVE the KNOWLEDGE...
OR NOT. <---- THAT SIMPLE.

The "UNDERSTANDING" of the "KNOWLEDGE"
ONLY COMES FROM GOD! <- the MYSTERY!

There is NO SUCH THING, as an accurate "INTERPRETATION" of "the WORD OF GOD",
"MADE" by ANY MAN; individually, privately, in their home, in a Church, or a group effort.

While you TEACH you have chosen to FOLLOW CREEDS of men who have "Collectively as a group...interpreted" what Scripture MEANS....
AND TEACH, others to do the SAME AS YOU, because "YOU BELIEVE" other mens INTERPRETATIONS...ARE VALID...

Other men CHOOSE to TRUST what Scripture teaches...

Hear, Read, Believe, Repent, Confess, Receive Christ's Conversion.......AND "HE" will GIVE THAT INDIVIDUAL (the interpretation) ie "Gods Understanding" of Gods WORD".

Glory TO God,
Taken

Have you ever studied the creeds? Why is your group of men who they refuted better than those who refuted them?

 

[Dave L]

Did you know you are teaching to follow CREEDS before CHRIST ?

Did you know you comparing a persons BELIEF to Follow CHRIST "over" your following of a "CREED", has nothing to do with "ISLAM" ?

Did you know accusing a person to being a follower of "ISLAM", because they do not follow a "CREED" as you do, is simply you making a false "accusation" in an ATTEMPT to DEFLECT from YOUR own "lack" of defense of following a "CREED" over "CHRIST" ?
(It is called "trickery", also known as, a "crafty tool" that is "favored" and "perpetuated" by Satan, WHO stands AGAINST CHRIST.)

If you CHOOSE to "stand with a CREED", that "some unidentifed early Church stood with" written by "some unidentified" men...
THAT is YOUR CHOICE.

And other men have the SAME FREEWILL Choices to elect to STAND with the WORD OF GOD as "THEIR" Choice....
It has NOThING WHATSOEVER to do with the ISLAMIC Reliegion...<--->

Try to stay on point without the deflections and "false allegations".

Glory to God,
Taken

No, the creeds only state what scripture states. If you read books you should understand this.

 

[Dave L]

What about Messianic Jews?



Father God ~
Son God ~
Holy Spirit God ~

Pss 33:
[6] By the word (SON) of the LORD (FATHER) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (SPIRIT) of his mouth.

Father, Son, Holy Spirit....ONE God.

Tri - Three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
Unity - One

Trinity - Lord God Almighty




And WHO exactly of WHAT exactly early Church "decided" and supposedly "proved"
not, not, not ?

They also proved in the final outcome in the debates, Jesus Christ is God "as far as his Spirit," with a "fully human nature" and a fully divine nature. If you couple this to the trinity doctrine, Jesus is the triune God, speaking in the second person of the trinity as the Son of God. But at times he spoke through his "human limitations" as the Son of man.

THAT ^^ statement JUST contradicted --->





THAT ^^ statement JUST contradicted --->



Father, Son, Holy Spirit....ONE God.

Tri - Three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)
Unity - One

Trinity - Lord God Almighty

YES, YES, YES.



NO, NO, NO.

Glory to thee Lord God Almighty,
Taken[/QUOTE]
All Christians are "Messianic Jews" in the biblical sense.

 

[justbyfaith]

so I wonder who is feeding you this nonsense.

It is "nonsense" (i.e. foolishness) only to you and those who think according to a carnal mindset. And the One who has fed it to me is the Holy Ghost.

1Co 1:18, For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.


1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

The Father is the Father
The Son is the Son
The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit

I repeat:

Now, the Holy Ghost.

There is one Spirit:

Ephesians 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

And He is the Father:

John 4:23-24, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

He is the Holy Ghost:

John 7:39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified).

And He is the Father:

John 4:23-24, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

He (the Father, even the Holy Ghost) is the Spirit of Jesus:

John 14:7-11, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father? Believest not thou that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself; but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

The human Jesus released His Spirit back to the Father (that One who inhabiteth eternity):

Luke 23:46, And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Again, there is one Spirit:

Ephesians 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

That Spirit is Jesus:

Colossians 1:27, To whom God would make make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

1 John 5:12, He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

A person cannot have the Son and therefore have life unless He is a Spirit come to dwell in them; and yet it is clear from scripture that He is come in the flesh:

(the short version), 2 John 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Therefore Jesus is both come in the flesh (as the Son) and also the Son is a Spirit (1 John 5:12, above) that comes to dwell within us. This Spirit is the Spirit of Jesus, the Holy Ghost; even Jesus Christ, the 3rd Person of the Trinity.

And Jesus is also a human being, come in the flesh, the 2nd Person of the Trinity.

You have not read the historic creeds. And only believe what you've been trained by false teachers to believe.

You are lying again (why I don't know: you should be aware that all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire, Revelation 21:8). I have read the historic creeds; and have also told you that I have done so, even in the recent past.

And I also have not received my doctrine from any human teacher. It has come from over 29 years of reading my Bible with the doctrine of the Trinity on the backburner of my thinking.

As said Paul the apostle, so say I:

Gal 1:11, But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

Gal 1:12, For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

This revelation has been received through seeking to understand what the Bible teaches concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ as it was preached by Jesus, Paul, and all of the apostles, with illumination of the Holy Ghost.

In other words, it is the understanding gained from reading and heeding the unadulterated, whole counsel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[charity]

You have not read the historic creeds. And only believe what you've been trained by false teachers to believe. Did you know it was your false belief about God that rallied the early church to define God according to the scriptures. And they solidly refuted your position at that time, called Sabellianism and modalistic monarchianism.

Poisonous insinuation again.

 

[Dave L]

Poisonous insinuation again.

It's true. The early church rallied to define the scriptural definition of God against Sabellianism (Modalistic Monarchianism) = Oneness today. This is basic church history for any seeking the truth above all else.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

Pss 33:
[6] By the word (SON) of the LORD (FATHER) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (SPIRIT) of his mouth.

this is a ERROR, #1. his breath (Spirit)?, God is Spirit. (Father, here is the Spirit). the breath is the Spirit who is God. no one or thing separate.

#2. by the word (Son) it's his doing, scripture,
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isaiah 45:22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
so the "by" his WORD is the LORD HIMSELF, supportive scripture,
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself"/

by by, by, by, myself is the same person.

JESUS was by himself when he created and made everything.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

Unfortunately, it was most likely the modalistic Monarchianists who had been baptized in Jesus' Name, and thus had the true Holy Ghost; while the majority that won the contest...very likely through continually pointing the finger with the charge of heresy to the opposing point of view, rather than defeating their arguments with scriptural truth...were those who might be defined as the "natural" thinkers.

re #267.

 

[101G]

If it can be shown from scripture that (8) The Son is the Holy Spirit, (being the 2nd and 3rd Persons of the Trinity,) (9) although the Son is primarily come in the flesh; and (10) The Holy Spirit is the Father; then we can conclude that the debates were not complete in the day that they were accomplished. They did not utilize access to all of the information. They did not examine every scripture on the subject in the day that they were debated.

post #3 (Trinity II)

from Post #3.

There is one Spirit:

Ephesians 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Good and correct. ONE Spirit. scripture,
Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

is this the SAME Spirit, or is this another Spirit, .... two?.

PICJAG

 

[Taken]

So then as certain traditions are held up very high by some, should we hold up these "ecumenical creeds" along side the written scriptures? The scriptures were written by inspiration as I believe, but should I believe these "creeds" also express clearly God's truth? Why? Will not the Comforter teach us all things without considering those "ecumenical creeds"?

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

Agree. Expounding.

Scripture -

2 Tim 3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Think about it....

in-spira-tion ...... "suffix" of "tion"...identifies the "ACTION"....of the root word "spirit".

in-spira-tion ..... "prefix" of "in"....identifies the "SOURCE"...of the root word "spirit"

It IS the WORD OF GODS SPIRIT, by and in Gods SPIRIT, His WORD IS REVEALED IN a written form called Scripture.

Revealed TO men, FOR mankinds Benefit.

IN........SPIRIT........SCRIPTURE

Where is...it taught....

IN....MEN
SPIRIT....OF MEN
TION.........CREEDS

FOR mankinds Benefit?

Where DID the APOSTLES DEFINE and CALL their BELIEF "a CREED"?

"THEY" didn't. "THEY" revealed their BELIEF"S" IN SCRIPTURE.

It was MEN who decided to Attach the "APOSTLES" identity to a "CREED" through a mans "IDEA'.

And Yet here is the Apostles "agreement" in Gods "INSPIRED" Words...revealed.

Acts 5
[29] Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.


God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Have you ever studied the creeds?

For what purpose would I "study" words of men I do not know, when I have a God whom I do know, and "study" words He has approved.

Why is "your group" of men...

Uh...why are YOU making up things?

Identify "my supposed GROUP"...that YOU have claimed IS "MY GROUP"...which I myself have NEVER claimed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

It IS the WORD OF GODS SPIRIT, by and in Gods SPIRIT, His WORD IS REVEALED IN a written form called Scripture.

Revealed TO men, FOR mankinds Benefit.

Revealed TO men, FOR mankinds Benefit, this is 100% correct, but the question is, "who is that Spirit/Word that revealed these scriptures to holy men/prophets that wrote the scriptures. let's see,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

there is that WORD, the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Ghost.
1 Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

 

[Taken]

No, the creeds only state what scripture states.

Then SHOW in Scripture your teaching POINTS...

(5) The Father is not the Son.
(6) The Son is the not the Holy Spirit.
(7) The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

All Christians are "Messianic Jews" in the biblical sense.

Thanks for your "sense" of interpretation.

According to the Bible, a person CALLING themselves a JEW or a CHRISTIAN is given little consideration.....and a person CALLING themselves "Converted IN Christ" IS the ultimate intent of the entire NEW COVENANT.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

GINOLJC, to all.

Pss 33:
[6] By the word (SON) of the LORD (FATHER) were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (SPIRIT) of his mouth.

this is a ERROR,

Thank you for revealing, your claiming SCRIPTURE (Pss 33:6) is in error.

I disagree.

#1. his breath (Spirit)?, God is Spirit. (Father, here is the Spirit). the breath is the Spirit who is God. no one or thing separate.

Thank you for revealing, your unawares of Gods BREATH, is ONE METHOD, God who IS SPIRIT, "GIVES" His Spirit.... TO MEN.

#2. by the word (Son) it's his doing, scripture,

Thank you for revealing, your unawares of Gods WORD, is ONE METHOD, God who IS SPIRIT, "GIVES" His Knowledge VIA, HIS WORD....TO MEN.

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
so the "by" his WORD is the LORD HIMSELF, supportive scripture,
Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself"/

JESUS was by himself when he created and made everything.

Not a mystery to me...
"BY MYSELF" is "BY THE WHOLE OF GOD HIMSELF"...."THOUGHT, WORD, POWER"...that CREATES and MAKES all things.

Not a mystery to me...
"HE" "ALONE" Creates and Makes all things...
With HIS own Thoughts, Word, Power....

ALONE....without the thoughts, words, power of HIS "creations".

Col 2
[2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement ofthe mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

Then SHOW in Scripture your teaching POINTS...

(5) The Father is not the Son.
(6) The Son is the not the Holy Spirit.
(7) The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Glory to God,
Taken

How about Jesus' baptism for starters? All three Father, Son, and Holy Spirit present yet separate.

 

[Dave L]

For what purpose would I "study" words of men I do not know, when I have a God whom I do know, and "study" words He has approved.



Uh...why are YOU making up things?

Identify "my supposed GROUP"...that YOU have claimed IS "MY GROUP"...which I myself have NEVER claimed.

Glory to God,
Taken

Isn't it a generally accepted axiom that book learnin' is good?

 

[Taken]

Revealed TO men, FOR mankinds Benefit, this is 100% correct,

but the question is, "who is that Spirit/Word that revealed these scriptures to holy men/prophets that wrote the scriptures. let's see,

"But the question is"

That is NOT my question....or "wondering of WHO".

The "inspired word of God", clearly tells me WHO "expressly" WROTE, and WHAT "they" wrote, and ON WHAT "is" written.

God WROTE...on STONE.
Man BROKE...the STONE of Gods writing.
Men WROTE...in ink on paper, via Gods direction.
Men WROTE...in ink on paper, Copies of the original writings, via Gods direction.
Men WROTE...in ink on paper, FROM MEMORY, (destroyed}original writings, and copied writings,via Gods direction.
Christ Jesus WRITES...in Spirit, in a mans NEW Heart....and in Spirit reveals the "understanding" of the writing...to a mans NEW spirit.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

Thank you for revealing, your claiming SCRIPTURE (Pss 33:6) is in error.

U are welcome, nope, only what you tried to make it say... (Word, Son)

Thank you for revealing, your unawares of Gods WORD, is ONE METHOD, God who IS SPIRIT, "GIVES" His Knowledge VIA, HIS

U are welcome, I believe I said, "HIS" Spirit teach, by giving "Knowledge" and "Understanding", hence the pastoral gift, see 1 Cor, 12:8

Not a mystery to me...
"BY MYSELF" is "BY THE WHOLE OF GOD HIMSELF"...."THOUGHT, WORD, POWER"...that CREATES and MAKES all things.

the WHOLR of God is ONE PERSON, his Spirit is him, and his Word is him. nothing different or separate.

Not a mystery to me...
"HE" "ALONE" Creates and Makes all things...
With HIS own Thoughts, Word, Power....

OWN shows possission, neaning here, it's U, and nobody else.

as in MY Son, meaning My body... (smile), and MY Father, meaning MY Spirit... (smile)
same Person, no mystery.

ALONE....without the thoughts, words, power of HIS "creations".

it's clearly stated, no other "PERSON"

Col 2
[2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement ofthe mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

I can't agree more, for the apostle states,
1 Corinthians 12:1 "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.