Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[Taken]

first thanks for the reply, second, the "Creator" is the same one who is "Maker", of all things.

PICJAG

Ok thanks. That is not in dispute. Yes the Creator God is the Same Maker Jesus.

God (to some is a mystery)

The revelation to the mystery...
IS

God IS;
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Col 2:
[2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to "the acknowledgement" of the mystery of God, and (the mystery) of the Father, and (the mystery) of Christ..


Quotation marks and bracketed words added for specification.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[farouk]

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.” (1 Corinthians 4:3–5)

As Isaiah 55 says, it is the Lord Who searches the heart.

 

[101G]

How is it Jesus said "before Abraham was I Am". Or John the Baptist who was 6 months older than Jesus said Jesus was before him?
Or: “Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;” (Genesis 19:24) (KJV 1900)

Or; “For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.” (Mark 12:36–37) (KJV 1900)

you missed the point dave, I said, he's not a Separate Person of 3, READ my POST first.

now you want to ask question, I don't mind answering question.
you asked, "How is it Jesus said "before Abraham was I Am". Or John the Baptist who was 6 months older than Jesus said Jesus was before him?"
answer, his Spirit was.... but not his flesh. hence Isaiah 9:6 a Child is born/flesh. a son is given/spirit. see dave, Jesus the Spirit was here before his flesh, before John and before Abraham, and before Adam because he created them, and made them all. JESUS is John the baptist creator and MAKER, as well as you. see you have no clue as to who the son of man is vs the Son of God...

or what you said, "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.” (Mark 12:36–37) (KJV 1900)"
For the "Lord" is the "LORD" in flesh, not a truine person. see, the Lord is God shared in flesh. the LORD is God without flesh. :)

when the LORD/Spirit, the Holy Spirit, said sit at my righ hand and not "ON" my right hand, meaning he's the share of himself in flesh have "all POWER".
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

the place of Honor is in the POWER.


see how easy I answer your question.

now dave back to my question.

"How can Jesus, being a separate person of a truine, according to your doctrine be a truine person himself.?"

dave you now have 5 to 6 person in your trinity

listen, you said Jesus is a truine person by himself. but your doctrine say Jesus is part of a trinity. see your ERROR now

 

[101G]

Ok thanks. That is not in dispute. Yes the Creator God is the Same Maker Jesus.

God (to some is a mystery)

The revelation to the mystery...
IS

God IS;
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Col 2:
[2] That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to "the acknowledgement" of the mystery of God, and (the mystery) of the Father, and (the mystery) of Christ..


Quotation marks and bracketed words added for specification.

Glory to God,
Taken

first thanks for the reply, second, NO. God is Spirit, per John 4:24a.

The revelation to the mystery...
IS
it's Spirit is Father and son... see it now. just replace God with Spirit. for it is the Spirit that holds the titles "Father" and "Son".

Father without Flesh and bones, and Son diversified in flesh bones. got it now?

 

[101G]

As Isaiah 55 says, it is the Lord Who searches the heart.

100% correct, if you don't mind, the Lord is the LORD in flesh, scripture,
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings".

now this,
Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works".

is this not the Lord JESUS addressing the seven Churches? ... YES.

the Lord of the OT is the the Lord of the NT, the same person.

PICJAG

 

[farouk]

100% correct, if you don't mind, the Lord is the LORD in flesh, scripture,
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings".

now this,
Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works".

is this not the Lord JESUS addressing the seven Churches? ... YES.

the Lord of the OT is the the Lord of the NT, the same person.

PICJAG

Sorry, Jeremiah 17...

@Dave L

 

[Dave L]

you missed the point dave, I said, he's not a Separate Person of 3, READ my POST first.

now you want to ask question, I don't mind answering question.
you asked, "How is it Jesus said "before Abraham was I Am". Or John the Baptist who was 6 months older than Jesus said Jesus was before him?"
answer, his Spirit was.... but not his flesh. hence Isaiah 9:6 a Child is born/flesh. a son is given/spirit. see dave, Jesus the Spirit was here before his flesh, before John and before Abraham, and before Adam because he created them, and made them all. JESUS is John the baptist creator and MAKER, as well as you. see you have no clue as to who the son of man is vs the Son of God...

or what you said, "For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.” (Mark 12:36–37) (KJV 1900)"
For the "Lord" is the "LORD" in flesh, not a truine person. see, the Lord is God shared in flesh. the LORD is God without flesh. :)

when the LORD/Spirit, the Holy Spirit, said sit at my righ hand and not "ON" my right hand, meaning he's the share of himself in flesh have "all POWER".
Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

the place of Honor is in the POWER.


see how easy I answer your question.

now dave back to my question.

"How can Jesus, being a separate person of a truine, according to your doctrine be a truine person himself.?"

dave you now have 5 to 6 person in your trinity

listen, you said Jesus is a truine person by himself. but your doctrine say Jesus is part of a trinity. see your ERROR now

You need to study the "deity of Christ" doctrine. It explains all of this. A quick look would be; we are body, soul, and spirit according to Paul. Jesus is body, soul, and God instead of human spirit. So as the final outcome in the debates proved, He is God as far as his Spirit, with a fully human nature and a fully divine nature. If you couple this to the trinity doctrine, he is the triune God, speaking in the second person of the trinity as the Son of God. But at times he spoke through his human limitations as the Son of man.

 

[farouk]

I was obviously thinking of Isaiah 55.8-9:

"
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith Jehovah.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

 

[justbyfaith]

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.” (1 Corinthians 4:3–5)

Paul progressed in his thinking about that...he went from that to saying that he was the least of all the apostles to saying that he was nothing to saying that he was less than the least of all the saints to saying that he was the chief of sinners...

This was a progression, that the holier he became, the less holy he thought himself to be.

 

[Dave L]

Paul progressed in his thinking about that...he went from that to saying that he was the least of all the apostles to saying that he was nothing to saying that he was less than the least of all the saints to saying that he was the chief of sinners...

This was a progression, that the holier he became, the less holy he thought himself to be.

This is why I follow his example and brush off insults and judgments from others.

 

[farouk]

This is why I follow his example and brush off insults and judgments from others.

Excellent approach...

 

[justbyfaith]

This is why I follow his example and brush off insults and judgments from others.

It would be more Paul's example to do what Jesus said and agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art on the way with him...

 

[justbyfaith]

He is God and cannot sin.

Indeed. Therefore He was not sinning in calling the Pharisees hypocrites; and He was in fact acting according to love. Therefore, since Jesus' behaviour is what defines holiness (not sinning), when He called the Pharisees hypocrites He wasn't sinning, and it is also not sinning for us to do the same when it is appropriate.

But I see that you are not up to the challenge, @Dave L.

 

[Taken]

Trinity is simply a word that means
Tri - Three
Unity - United

THUS - Three united IN ONE, and the ONE, is God.

I have NO problem whatsoever, in trusting to believe...
Tri - Three; specifically: Father, Son & HS
ARE THREE...UNITED and THEE One God.

My problem WITH Certain Religious Sects, WHO TEACH, "THE TRINITY".... FURTHER..."TEACH" ... WHAT THEY BELIEVE...the "TRI" of the "TRINITY" 'IS NOT'.

In a manner of TEACHING, "THEY" express...
The "TRI" ARE NOT "each other"....BUT that the "TRI" ARE "EACH" the same ONE GOD.

Personally, I find the "separation" of EACH of the "TRI", FALSE.

Scripture to my finding....NEVER "teaches" the "Separation" of the "TRI".

I have no problem using the word TRINITY, in regard TO: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

I futher do not believe, they ARE EVER "separate"...one APArT from the OTHER, thus I do not Agree with "THAT" particular explanation.....

NOR, do I believe, "THOSE" who ADHERE to THAT particular "explanation" of HOW THEY VIEW and UNDERSTAND the Trinity....
That THEY, have a copyright or patent ON word "TRINITY".

Me? The word trinity, means, Three, Father, Son, Holy Spirit "ARE" ONE united GOD....and NEVER "Separated".

God Bless,
Taken

Hi charity...just sharing a tid bit...my parents wedding ceremony was performed in the US, by a Minister born and raised in Wales.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

A quick look would be; we are body, soul, and spirit according to Paul

according to God, he's a Spirit, John 4:24a. so that want fly.

Jesus is body, soul, and God instead of human spirit.

ERROR, instead of Divine spirit. supportive scripture,
Mark 2:8 "And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?".

You have no clue.

So as the final outcome in the debates proved, He is God as far as his Spirit, with a fully human nature and a fully divine nature.

the outcome is this, JESUS is God the Spirit, the Holy Spirit who diversified, or "shared" himself in a nature of flesh. understand, son of man is "spirit", son of God is "flesh". :cool: you still have no clue.

dave, your belif in the trinity is as flakey as the pillsbury doughboy.

 

[101G]

@farouk, is this the same person?
Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings".

now this,
Revelation 2:23 "And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works".

PICJAG

 

[Taken]

first thanks for the reply, second, NO. God is Spirit, per John 4:24a.

The revelation to the mystery...
IS
it's Spirit is Father and son... see it now. just replace God with Spirit. for it is the Spirit that holds the titles "Father" and "Son".

Father without Flesh and bones, and Son diversified in flesh bones. got it now?

Had it, pryor to your implication I didn't get it.

God does not change, regardless of what likeness He appears to men or by What name He is called.

God IS Spirit, and HAS spirits and power He gives to "men", which are all derived from His Spirit which IS, HIS POWER.

The mystery was... Gods Word and Gods Spirit was known....but the name of Gods Word and Gods Spirit was not known...

It has been revealed...
The NAME of Gods Word, IS Jesus.
The Name of Gods Power, IS Christ.

And further...
The NAME:
Of The Lord is Jesus.
Of The Light of God is Jesus.
Of The Holy One of God is Jesus.

Of The Power of God is Christ
Of The Seed of God is Christ.
Of The Spirit that Quickens (ie brings a man into living) is Christ.
Of the WIsdom of God is Christ.

And more...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

The mystery was... Gods Word and Gods Spirit was known....but the name of Gods Word and Gods Spirit was not known...

correct, listen,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".

see taken the Spirit was IN, IN, IN, them, the holy prophet who prophesied of the grace that should cme unto us.

see, the Spirit of, of, of, Christ is Christ. in the OT he was without flesh without bone and without blood.

the same Spirit who is Christ.

got it now?. read 1 Peter 10 & 11 again.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

“But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man’s judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.” (1 Corinthians 4:3–5)

when using scripture,
Galatians 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

 

[Dave L]

when using scripture,
Galatians 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

I think truth creates more enemies than friends.