Three Days and Three Nights

[rstrats]

Perhaps someone new looking in will know of examples.

 

[rstrats]

It appears that there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates visiting this site who think that Matthew 12:40 is employing common idiomatic language.

 

[Boaz]

Hi rstrats,
You said:
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?

I do believe the part is true highlighted in red, what I don't believe is their understanding of Yeshua being crucified on a Friday and rising on a Sunday. To my understanding Yeshua was crucified Thursday and died at 3:00 PM. This would be part of a day, so 1 day. Yeshua was placed in the tomb before the last rays of the sun left the sky. God starts his days just after dusk when there remains no more light. So Yeshua's 1st night in the tomb would of been Thursday night or the start of the 6th day, so 1 night. Day 2, meaning light in the sky and still part of day 6 and not the start of the next day, would have been Friday or day 6 during the daylight portion, so 2 days. Night #2 would start Friday or beginning of day 7, after the sun had gone down. Day 3 would have started Saturday or day 7 and night 3 would have occurred just after the sun went down going into the 1st day of the week which would have been Sunday. Yeshua was resurrected at the same time the Jews would have been cutting the wave sheaf offering from the field that the High Priest would have waved before God after the sun had rose on the 1st of the week. Below is a diagram to explain the mess I am trying to convey:

Thursday during daylight hours = 1 day (Nearing the end of the 5th day on God's calendar)
Thursday during nighttime hours = 1 night (Start of 6th day on God's calendar)
Friday during daylight hours = 2 days
Friday during nighttime hours = 2 nights (Start of the 7th day on God's calendar)
Saturday during daylight hours = 3 days
Saturday, just barely into the nighttime hours = 3 nights (Start of the 1st day on God's calendar)

Strong's Concordance offers this as 1 of 4 definitions in regard to the word "day(s)" as used in Matthew 12:40:

2) of the civil day, or the space of twenty four hours (thus including the night)
a) Eastern usage of this term differs from our western usage. Any part of a day is counted as a whole day, hence the expression "three days and three
nights" does not mean literally three whole days, but at least one whole day plus part of two other days.

So as far as I am concerned, Yeshua was not crucified on a Friday or as some believe, myself included at one time, Wednesday. Rather he was crucified Thursday with 3 hours, give or take, remaining of the daylight. For anyone to say he was crucified Friday makes Yeshua out to be a liar. It is not possible to get 3 parts of a day or 3 parts of a night from that perspective. I cannot offer you any evidence to support that latter 1/2 of your question in regards to: "I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?"

Does not matthew 28 stae he rose on a saturday ?

 

[Webers_Home]

-

It appears that there are no 6th day of the week crucifixion advocates
visiting this site who think that Matthew 12:40 is employing common
idiomatic language.

I don't know much about "common idiomatic language" but according to
New Testament documentation, Christ recovered during the third day rather
than after the third day was over and done with. (Matt 17:22-23, Mark 9:31,
Luke 9:22, Luke 24:12-21, Luke 24:41-46, Acts 10:39-41, and 1Cor 15:4)

FYI: According to Christ, days back then were defined as when the sun
was up, and nights were defined as when the sun was down. (John 11:9)

Although Judaism's holy days commence at sundown (e.g. Passover and
Sabbath) in reality sundown marks the beginning of night rather than day.

● Gen 1:3-5 . . He separated the light from the darkness. God called the
light Day and the darkness He called Night.

● Gen 1:14-18 . . God made two great lights-- the greater light to govern
the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God
set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the
day and the night, and to separate light from darkness.

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[rstrats]

Boaz,
re: "Does not matthew 28 stae he rose on a saturday ?"


No. In fact it doesn't mention when the resurrection occurred.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Does not matthew 28 stae he rose on a saturday ?

The day upon which Christ revived was the one that followed Saturday.

● Matt 28:1 . . After the sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning,
Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

The language of that text is somewhat vague but it appears that the women
left home at the crack of dawn and arrived at the cemetery when the sun
was up.

Exactly what hour they arrived is only known as "early" (Mark 16:2, Luke
24:1)

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[rstrats]

Webers_Home,
re: "The day upon which Christ revived was the one that followed Saturday."
　
If by Saturday you mean the 7th day of the week, only one verse - as it's translated in the KJV - places the resurrection on the first day of the week. And that verse is thought by a number of scholars as not being original to the text.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

If by Saturday you mean the 7th day of the week, only one verse - as it's
translated in the KJV - places the resurrection on the first day of the week.

According to Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, Luke 24:1, and John 20;1, a number
of women came out to the cemetery on the first day of the week.

According to Luke 24:1-23, that day was the third day. (v. 21)

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[rstrats]

Webers_Home,
re: According to Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1-2, Luke 24:1, and John 20;1, a number of women came out to the cemetery on the first day of the week."

Those verses only say that the tomb was empty when the women arrived. They don't say when it became empty.
　
　


re: "According to Luke 24:1-23, that day was the third day. (v. 21)"

Actually, verse 21 says that it was the third day "since these things happened".

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Actually, verse 21 says that it was the third day "since" these things
happened".

The "things" are described thusly:

● Luke 24:18-21 . . And He said to them: What things? And they said to
Him: The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in
deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, and how the chief
priests and our rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and
crucified Him.

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or so illiterate that you can't see
that the women were out at the cemetery the third day as per John 2:19-
22.

So, counting backwards: the third day was Sunday, the second day was
Saturday, and the first day was Friday. Consequently: the third night was
Saturday night, the second night was Friday night, and the first night was
Thursday night.

I appreciate your fear and desperation to be right in order to save face and
protect your credibility; but sometimes even the best and brightest of us
have to swallow their pride and admit to mistakes lest they appear to others,
and to God, as unreasoning bigots.

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[Boaz]

Some reason that a part of a day was counted as a whole.

The period was definitely three days and three nights. But suppose parts of days were taken for the whole days. Then we would have Friday, Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night and Sunday.

Count and see that we thus have three days and two nights. And actually no part of Sunday should be counted as a day because John 20:1-9 shows that the women came to the tomb on Sunday morning "when it was yet dark", and Jesus was already risen.

Thus with parts of the days counted as whole days we would actually have only two days and two nights, if the Good Friday to Easter Sunday tradition were correct.

 

[rstrats]

Boaz,
re: "Then we would have Friday, Friday night, Saturday, Saturday night and Sunday."
　

Actually, it would be Friday day, Saturday night, Saturday day and Sunday night.

 

[Boaz]

[SIZE=10.5pt](Mark 16:1-6) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Notice that these women came to anoint the body of Jesus on the first day of the week "at [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]the rising of the sun[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]". When they arrived, they found the stone rolled away from the door of the sepulcher. Jesus was already risen; He was not there. An empty tomb at sunrise Sunday morning is NOT PROOF that he arose that morning[/SIZE]

 

[Boaz]

Webers_Home,

Below, is a short guideline to what I believe occurred during the timing of the Atonement.

1 Thursday night

a) As Jesus began to pray at the Garden of Gethsemane already He was enduring and suffering the punishment the Father put upon Him as the sweat turned into drops of blood.

B) Jesus was arrested.

2 Friday

a) Jesus dies – “And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;)”...etc., De 21:22-23

The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken (to hasten death), and that they might be taken away.
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. Jo 19:31,33,36

The scripture texts above prove Jesus died on Friday the Jewish Preparation Festival.

3 Saturday Sabbath

a) Even at death God rested on the last Sabbath day.

4 Sunday

a) Jesus arose early on Sunday morning which can be collaborated by scripture texts.


To God Be The Glory

[SIZE=10.5pt](Luke 24:1-3) Read it and note the harmony with Mark's account: "Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulcher, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulcher. And they entered in, and [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]FOUND NOT THE BODY of the Lord Jesus".[/SIZE]

 

[rstrats]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Boaz,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]re: " An empty tomb at sunrise Sunday morning is NOT PROOF that he arose that morning"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Any particular point for that comment?[/SIZE]

 

[Webers_Home]

(Mark 16:1-6)
Notice that these women came to anoint the body of Jesus on the first day of
the week "at the rising of the sun". When they arrived, they found the stone
rolled away from the door of the sepulcher. Jesus was already risen; He was
not there. An empty tomb at sunrise Sunday morning is NOT PROOF that he
arose that morning

The Greek word for "came" is somewhat ambiguous. It doesn't necessarily
indicate arrival but also travel.
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[Boaz]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Boaz,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]re: " An empty tomb at sunrise Sunday morning is NOT PROOF that he arose that morning"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Any particular point for that comment?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Wednesday evening to Thursday evening (Wednesday night and Thursday) would have been one night and one day; Thursday evening to Friday evening (Thursday night and Friday) would have been another night and day; and Friday evening to Saturday evening (Friday night and Saturday) would have been another night and day, making a total of three days and three nights. Thus, his only sign to the scribes and Pharisees was fulfilled.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Wednesday was the Passover and preparation for that high-day Sabbath. Thursday was the high-day Sabbath; Friday was the preparation for the weekly Sabbath and the day the women prepared their ointments (Luke 23:56), for they had no time to do this on Wednesday before sunset. [/SIZE]

 

[rstrats]

Boaz,
re: "... (Wednesday night and Thursday) would have been one night and one day;..."


Two things:
What about Wednesday daytime? The Messiah was placed in the tomb during the daytime. Also, He would have been alive during Wednesday night. He didn't die until around 3pm during the daytime.
　

BTW, as mentioned earlier, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used, i.e. where a daytime or a nighttime was said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.

 

[Boaz]

Boaz,
re: "... (Wednesday night and Thursday) would have been one night and one day;..."


Two things:
What about Wednesday daytime? The Messiah was placed in the tomb during the daytime. Also, He would have been alive during Wednesday night. He didn't die until around 3pm during the daytime.
　

BTW, as mentioned earlier, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used, i.e. where a daytime or a nighttime was said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.

[SIZE=11pt]Wednesday[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] was the [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Passover [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]and preparation for that [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]high-day Sabbath[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]. [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Thursday was the high-day Sabbath[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]; [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Friday [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]was the preparation for the weekly Sabbath and the day the women [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]prepared their ointments[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] (Luke 23:56), for they had no time to do this on Wednesday before sunset. [/SIZE]

 

[rstrats]

[SIZE=11pt]Boaz,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]You said that Wednesday night would have been one night. How could that be since the Messiah would have been alive all of Wednesday night?[/SIZE]