This world and the wicked are going up in a puff of smoke when Jesus come - thus negating Premil

[Keraz]

The sixth seal was fulfilled as follows, which can be confirmed by history:

Earthquake: 1755 (Lisbon epicenter)
Sun darkened : 1780
Moon turned to blood: 1780 (the night following the darkened Sun)
Stars falling: 1833

What nonsense!
Revelation 5:12-17 describes those things all happening on the same Day.

That terrible Day is very close now and there is not much we can do to prepare for it, but just knowing that the Lord has sent it, will be a help for us to keep strong and trust Him for protection.

 

[WPM]

We're actually living between the sixth and seventh seal now.

The sixth seal was fulfilled as follows, which can be confirmed by history:

Earthquake: 1755 (Lisbon epicenter)
Sun darkened : 1780
Moon turned to blood: 1780 (the night following the darkened Sun)
Stars falling: 1833

Now, the Plagues will have the Sun scorching the Earth, but not burning it up...that takes place when Jesus comes as a thief in the night and sets the very elements on fire.

This is why I am not a Historist. They do the converse of Pretribbers, they use Scripture to support their own opinions of history. It is totally arbitrary. The problem is: get 10 Historicists in a room and you will get 10 different opinions.

 

[WPM]

Peter didn't give the entire story. We have the clearly stated Millennium in Revelation 20 and in the historical record of 6000 years for mankind's rule, then the final thousand years of benign rule by King Jesus.
THEN the earth and the universe is dissolved and the new earth appears.

No! Where is a millennium mentioned anywhere here? Nowhere! So, that is a lie. You know it! How can anyone survive this? They cannot! Your location of Revelation is way-off. Numerous passages like this prove that.

 

[Phoneman777]

What nonsense!
Revelation 5:12-17 describes those things all happening on the same Day.

That terrible Day is very close now and there is not much we can do to prepare for it, but just knowing that the Lord has sent it, will be a help for us to keep strong and trust Him for protection.

Where's it say that all that stuff happens on the same day? It doesn't, my friend ;)

 

[Phoneman777]

This is why I am not a Historist. They do the converse of Pretribbers, they use Scripture to support their own opinions of history. It is totally arbitrary. The problem is: get 10 Historicists in a room and you will get 10 different opinions.

Not sure what you mean or if you fully understand Historicism. Essentially, Historicists point to the Papacy as Antichrist, and completely reject all popular ideas about a future Antichrist, a "pretrib rapture" before the Antichrist commences 7 years of tribulation, a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, etc.

As far as I know, core Historicist doctrine teaches everyone will be here for when Satan counterfeits the Second Coming of Christ, and be here when he points to the papal Antichrist as "God's chosen institution", and as the counterfeit Christ he will place his stamp of approval on the papal Mark of the Papal Beast and lead mankind to boycott those who resist the papacy and eventually call for them to suffer a death decree - at which time Jesus will come and sort him and the rest of his followers well out.

If there are any other Historicist ideas out there, I'd love to hear em.

 

[robert derrick]

When does this arrive? When does the first heavens and earth disappear?

Oh, I see. Because of your prophecy of there being a sea on the new earth to be cleansed, you say the Lord returns to rule over the new earth only.

But because I teach prophecy of scripture, that He returns to this earth to rule over these nations, and the new earth is only after the Millennium, then you say I am teaching two new earths.

Got it.

As I said, trying to square teaching prophecy of Scripture into your round hole, only makes things more confusing.

 

[Keraz]

Where's it say that all that stuff happens on the same day? It doesn't, my friend ;)

Revelation 6:12-17 does describe a simultaneous event, not separate as you like to make out.
All these Prophesies about that terrible day, are clear; it will all happen in a 24 hour day:
Isaiha 9:14, Isaiah 29:6, Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 47:9, Revelation 18:8

 

[covenantee]

We're actually living between the sixth and seventh seal now.

The sixth seal was fulfilled as follows, which can be confirmed by history:

Earthquake: 1755 (Lisbon epicenter)
Sun darkened : 1780
Moon turned to blood: 1780 (the night following the darkened Sun)
Stars falling: 1833

Now, the Plagues will have the Sun scorching the Earth, but not burning it up...that takes place when Jesus comes as a thief in the night and sets the very elements on fire.

Classical Reformation "historic historicism", e.g. E. B. Elliott, relates the apocalyptic symbols of the sixth seal to the decline and dissolution of historic pagan imperial Rome.

 

[WPM]

Not sure what you mean or if you fully understand Historicism. Essentially, Historicists point to the Papacy as Antichrist, and completely reject all popular ideas about a future Antichrist, a "pretrib rapture" before the Antichrist commences 7 years of tribulation, a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, etc.

As far as I know, core Historicist doctrine teaches everyone will be here for when Satan counterfeits the Second Coming of Christ, and be here when he points to the papal Antichrist as "God's chosen institution", and as the counterfeit Christ he will place his stamp of approval on the papal Mark of the Papal Beast and lead mankind to boycott those who resist the papacy and eventually call for them to suffer a death decree - at which time Jesus will come and sort him and the rest of his followers well out.

If there are any other Historicist ideas out there, I'd love to hear em.

I am talking about the speculative date-setting.

 

[WPM]

Oh, I see. Because of your prophecy of there being a sea on the new earth to be cleansed, you say the Lord returns to rule over the new earth only.

But because I teach prophecy of scripture, that He returns to this earth to rule over these nations, and the new earth is only after the Millennium, then you say I am teaching two new earths.

Got it.

As I said, trying to square teaching prophecy of Scripture into your round hole, only makes things more confusing.

You apply the NHNE in Isaiah 65 to your supposed future millennium. That makes 2.

 

[robert derrick]

You apply the NHNE in Isaiah 65 to your supposed future millennium. That makes 2.

I don't think you can think straight anymore. You're the only on prophesying the new earth at His second coming.

Bible prophecy is after His second coming, His Millennium, consuming of Gog and Magog, and then the judgement of the rest of the dead.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No one is Required to Accept your Beliefs and Terms as a Condition to Accepting what Gods Word teaches.

God has always had Supreme Authorrity over His Creations.

Authority TO Rule as KING is one thing.
Exercising That Authority is another thing.

This is ridiculous. Is a king a king only while he is actively excercising His authority or is a king always a king regardless of what He is doing at any given time? Does Jesus not exercise any authority in your life and in the lives of other believers? Is it not up to Him whether to allow things to happen or not? He doesn't have to be actively making people do things in order to be exercising His authority.

IF Christ Jesus were Ruling This World NOW, He would be Present ON Earth, IN His Kingdom, ON His Throne, and the Whole World would Be IN Belief and Harmony….for a 1,000 year period…

That's what you say, but that is not what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches that His kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36) and your understanding of His kingdom contradicts those things.

That is Not the case….Now.
And BTW you are the one Teaching Against that!

I am the only one teaching against that? What are you talking about? That's like saying I am the only Amillennialist. All Amils teach against your understanding of His kingdom.

 

[WPM]

I don't think you can think straight anymore. You're the only on prophesying the new earth at His second coming.

Bible prophecy is after His second coming, His Millennium, consuming of Gog and Magog, and then the judgement of the rest of the dead.

So, you no longer relate Isaiah 66:22-24 to some supposed millennium after the second coming?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Since Jesus' second coming is before the thousand years, then Peter's ending is a thousand years after His second coming.

Peter only speaks of the end of this world, not about anything before it.

Did you even read my post? You quoted just one sentence from it and didn't address anything else I said. Why not? You say Peter only speaks of the end of this world, which you say is 1,000+ years after Christ's return. Then please explain why he said what he did in verses 11 and 12 here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Peter was addressing his readers in the first century along with anyone else who would read it after that. Agree? And he told his readers that they "ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming". Why would he say this to his readers, including you and me, if the fiery destruction he described can't possibly happen in our lifetimes? In your view, the only ones who would need to concern themselves with living holy and godly lives as they "look forward to the day of God and speed its coming" would be people who are alive 1,000+ years after Christ's return.

So, you are basically saying that all of those who read Peter's warning up until Christ's return and 1,000 years afterward have no need to heed his warning about living holy and godly lives while waiting for the day of the Lord to come since it can't possibly apply to anyone until 1,000+ years after His return. Yet, that is not the impression Peter is giving in that passage at all. Instead, he gives the impression that all believers who read his words there should heed his warning about living holy and godly lives while looking forward to the day of the Lord. And the reason why that is the case is because it has been possible for the day of the Lord to arrive ever since he wrote those words since no one knows when that day will come.

Also, in verse 13, Peter said that we look forward to a new heaven and new earth in accordance with the fulfillment of "his promise", which is the promise of His second coming (see 2 Peter 3:3-4). But, you and other Premils are looking forward to an earthly millennial kingdom in accordance with the fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.

 

[Phoneman777]

Revelation 6:12-17 does describe a simultaneous event, not separate as you like to make out.
All these Prophesies about that terrible day, are clear; it will all happen in a 24 hour day:
Isaiha 9:14, Isaiah 29:6, Zechariah 3:9, Isaiah 47:9, Revelation 18:8

Where does it indicate in Revelation 6 that all these events are simultaneous? Just saying so doesn't make it so, right?

 

[Phoneman777]

Classical Reformation "historic historicism", e.g. E. B. Elliott, relates the apocalyptic symbols of the sixth seal to the decline and dissolution of historic pagan imperial Rome.

Doesn't make sense to place the sixth seal all the way back in the beginning with the fall of pagan Rome. Historicism by virtue of its name PARALLELS history - therefore, if the seventh seal is at the end of time when Jesus comes, then the sixth must be not too far distant in the past from that...which is why it's seen as signifying the events of the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[Phoneman777]

I am talking about the speculative date-setting.

For the Second Coming? I agree - date setting is a bad idea. Ask Mr. Camping ;)

 

[Taken]

This is ridiculous. Is a king a king only while he is actively excercising His authority or is a king always a king regardless of what He is doing at any given time?

Be Patient.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,


Knowing who is KING is one thing.
The KING RULING is another thing.

Be Patient, His Time to Return and Rule is nearing.


1 Tim 6:
[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;


Rev 19:
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Be Patient.
Christ Jesus has all authority, but is NOT YET Ruling the World.

Heaven has NOT YET Opened.

 

[WPM]

Be Patient.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,


Knowing who is KING is one thing.
The KING RULING is another thing.

Be Patient, His Time to Return and Rule is nearing.


1 Tim 6:
[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;


Rev 19:
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

[16] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Be Patient.
Christ Jesus has all authority, but is NOT YET Ruling the World.

Heaven has NOT YET Opened.

More avoidance. This is classic Premil.

 

[Taken]

More avoidance. This is classic Premil.

Avoidance is Scripturally taught to ignore silly circle jerk nonsense. You have been answered repeatedly. Your own lack of comprehension of what is written is on you, not me. Your own lack of understanding what is Scripturally written is not a mystery. Scripture itself notifies me of WHY.