They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[JBO]

You really don't know what you are talking about, do you? "Made alive" is the more modern English rendering of "quickened":

For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened [zōopoiéō] by the Spirit, By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" -- 1 Peter 3:18-19

Do you believe that our sins were laid upon Jesus? Do you believe that He bore our sins in His own body on the cross when He died?

Do you believe that Jesus died? Why did He die, do you think? Because of His own sin, or because of our sin?

Do you believe that once He died, that Jesus did not have to be quickened by the Spirit so that He could rise again from the dead?

You show up your ignorance of scripture like this time and time again in these boards.

1 Peter 3:18 describes the dead body of Jesus being physically resurrected (Greek - egersis, see Matthew 27:53) from the Grave by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:5 describes our spiritual regeneration from being dead in trespasses and sins. It has nothing to do with being made alive physically.

Those are not the same thing at all.

Moreover, The Greek word "egersis" is never used to describe our resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns.

 

[Zao is life]

It's very difficult for me to find clear ways of explaining this, and the angle from which many people are accustomed to looking at this from does not help, so I hope you'll be patient while I have one last try:

1 Peter 3:18-19
"For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh,

but quickened | made alive [zoopoieo] in the Spirit [pneûma];

in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison."

The above was before our Lord's resurrection. Before He was raised from the dead. His body was still dead.

Quickening: Being born of the Spirit relates to the quickening (zōopoiéō) of the Spirit, and the quickening of individuals always occurs with (syzōopoiéō) the quickening experienced by Christ after He died, which occurred while He was dead (before He was raised from the dead):

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even us being dead in sins, He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved)". (Ephesians 2:4-5).

Resurrection: | being raised from the dead: The resurrection (anástasis) always relates to the resurrection of the body, and we are told that the dead body will be raised from the dead with (synegeírō) Christ's bodily rising from the dead, who was first quickened, and as a result, raised:

".. and has synegeírō (raised us up together with Christ's bodily resurrection), and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:6).

Not raised: The word syzōopoiéō refers to being made alive ("quickened") together with the Spirit's quickening of Christ after He died, by the same Spirit of God breathing life into a person. Remember that Jesus was only raised from the dead after He was quickened.

Raised: The word synegeírō refers to being raised up together with Christ's bodily resurrection from death.

1 Peter 1:3 (quoted above) tells us that God has caused us to be born of the Spirit of God THROUGH the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, but it's not a "spiritual resurrection" or "spiritual rising from death" that Peter is talking about - that's not what it's saying.

The New Testament uses different words for the quickening by the Spirit on one hand, and being raised from the dead (the resurrection) on the other hand, for a reason.

Okay just ask yourself: Is the quickening by the spirit (zōopoiéō) and the resurrection (being raised) the same thing? Or does the latter come about as a result of the former?

Take a look at it from a different angle than you are accustomed to:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth (anagennáō) into a living (záō) hope THROUGH the resurrection (anástasis) of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).

Hope of what, after we have been quickened?​

1 Peter 3:18 describes the dead body of Jesus being physically resurrected (Greek - egersis, see Matthew 27:53) from the Grave by the Holy Spirit.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened [zōopoiéō] by the Spirit.

The word [zōopoiéō] does not refer to the resurrection of the body. It always refers only to the quickening of the Spirit.

Strongs Greek 02227 ζωοποιέω zōopoiéō, dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
from the same as 2226 and 4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or figuratively):--make alive, give life, quicken.

Ephesians 2:5 describes our spiritual regeneration from being dead in trespasses and sins. It has nothing to do with being made alive physically.

I did not say Ephesians 2:5 is referring to the resurrection. Please go back and read Post # 337 again and read properly this time, then quote where I said verse 5 refers to the resurrection or being raised.

Verse 6 refers to the resurrection | being raised from the dead:

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us,

5 even us being dead in sins, He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);

6. and has synegeírō (raised us up together), and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Ephesians 2:4-6).

The word syzōopoiéō refers to being made alive ("quickened") together with the Spirit's quickening of Christ after He died, by the same Spirit of God breathing life into a person:

The word synegeírō refers to being raised up together with Christ's bodily resurrection from death.

Moreover, The Greek word "egersis" is never used to describe our resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns.

The word égersis is used to describe the resurrection of the body of Christ. It's used only once in the entire New Testament.

"And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep [ἐγείρω egeírō] arose. And coming out of the tomb after His [ἔγερσις égersis] resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." (Matthew 27:52-53).

So the word égersis still refers to the resurrection (of the body). It's prefixed by the definite article: ".. His THE RESURRECTION". So it's a noun referring the THE resurrection, which is Christ, the last Adam's, resurrection:

“Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.” (John 11:25)

Once you drop your battle-gear and push your disengage attack-mode button (the one that's labelled as your "Ridiculous Attack Mode"), you may begin to learn something.

 

[JBO]

Once you drop your battle-gear and push your disengage attack-mode button (the one that's labelled as your "Ridiculous Attack Mode"), you may begin to learn something.

Right back atcha! ! !

 

[rwb]

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

First of all, obviously, these accounts are involving the same events, the same era of time. That indicates that how you are applying Revelation 12 to Daniel 12:1 you need to likewise do with Matthew 24:21. What needs to be noted here, though both accounts are involving the same events, same era of time, the former is meaning at the beginning of this unequaled time of trouble. The latter is meaning at the end of it. That is when Michael stands up. It even says so right here---And at that time shall Michael stand up--and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Followed by what verse 2 records.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The problem is this. If Michael stands up at the end of this time of trouble, what follows that is a resurrection of the dead.
In Revelation 12 here, no resurrection of the dead follows this war in heaven. It instead leads to satan getting cast to the earth. Therefore, the same events are not in mind here.

What does that mean when he is loosed, assuming this scenario? Does that mean he is no longer bound to the earth?

The prophecy of Daniel when Michael stood up for his people points to the birth of Christ when he and his angels cast Satan and his angels out of heaven and bound them to the earth. Being bound to the earth means that Satan and his angels no longer have access to heaven as they apparently had before being cast down to the earth. That's when salvation came to all the nations of the world, when heaven rejoiced and the whole earth would begin to experience the great wrath of the enemies against Christ and His people.

The birth of Christ is at the beginning of the New Covenant era of the Gospel that was ushered in when Christ came to earth a human. The time period John writes symbolically a thousand years. The prophecy of Daniel is pointing to this event that would come at a very specific time/age/era. Christ came on a day and in a time that would be known as the age of the Gospel of grace that extends from the birth of Christ to the sounding of the seventh trumpet. The seventh/last trumpet sounding marks the end of this age of Gospel grace that John writes a thousand years. That means a thousand years cannot be one thousand years, but symbolically runs from the beginning of the new age when Christ was born until the last Gentile to be saved has come into the spiritual Kingdom of God through the Gospel proclaimed being born again through Christ's Spirit.

Matthew 24 Christ warns His disciples of what shall also come during this new Gospel age, but instead of His human birth, He speaks of what is to come through His cross and resurrection. All the prophets of Old point to this same period of time when they write of the day of the Lord that would come. We tend to read it as if their prophecy is of one event in time, but their prophecy speaks of the whole Gospel of grace age/time/era/a thousand years.

At the end of this time period symbolically written a thousand years, and after Satan's little season the hour Christ says would come when all who are in the graves shall be resurrected for either life or resurrected for damnation. Before the fire of God comes down from heaven to burn up all the enemies of Christ, those of faith who are still alive on earth will also be caught up and changed together with the resurrected dead, and changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible to be fit for everlasting life on the new earth that shall be after this first heaven and earth passes away.

Nowhere in all the prophecies do we read of a time of one thousand literal years when Christ comes to establish His Kingdom of this earth. His Kingdom has already come and is now a spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven within the eternal spirit of men/women of faith and when all things are made new His spiritual Kingdom now in heaven will be the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. His Kingdom then on the new earth will cover the whole earth, and all the people of faith will dwell with Him physically alive on the earth as it was first created without sin and no more death.

 

[rwb]

Can you point out which posts in particular you pointed out these inconsistencies so that I can look at them again and try and go from there?

This thread has several replies from me. I've shown inconsistencies throughout.

 

[rwb]

What is written where? Per the verse you submitted? Or are you meaning something else?

That was my response to your post #316

 

[rwb]

Let's focus on this for now. In Daniel 7 it involves the beast being slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. Where do you see Revelation 5:10-12 involving any of that? How can these accounts be involving the same events when Revelation 5:10-12 is apparently meaning at the beginning of His ascension back into heaven while Daniel 7:11 is involving an event that doesn't even happen until Christ returns in the end of this age? Meaning Revelation 19:20.

What is written in Daniel 7 includes recorded history of Israel that is past, as well as future history that shall come to not only Israel of Old, but for the whole earth, wherever the spiritual Kingdom of God is found through the Holy Spirit within man. The book of Revelation, like the prophecy of Daniel, though written to the New Covenant Churches on earth, is not limited to future events only. It speaks also of things that have been, things that are and things that shall come as the spiritual Kingdom of God is being built as His Gospel is proclaimed in the power of His Spirit.

Revelation chapters 4-6 IMO John is given a vision not from heaven, but of heaven. John was given to know the plan of God to Covenant with mankind from before the foundation of the world. And though His Covenant humankind as well as His creation would be saved. Rev 5:6-14 centers on John's vision of the Lamb of God whose blood would be shed to atone for sin, and people from every kindred, tongue and nation would be redeemed through His shed blood. His redeemed people would be to Him kings and priests as they reign with Him on the earth.

 

[Ritajanice]

This thread has several replies from me. I've shown inconsistencies throughout.

Isn’t that how we learn?....

 

[rwb]

The word zao, whenever it's referring to humans, never refers to alive without a human body in the New Testament (not ever).

They were alive in human body when they LIVED and REIGNED with Christ during this time period symbolized a thousand years. They had to be physically alive to be beheaded. John is given to understand these faithful, living, humans are still alive AFTER physical death, referring to them as SOULS, meaning a spiritual body of believers in heaven. They no longer have physical body, but their spirit possessed eternal, everlasting life before they were martyred and can NEVER die.

When, at what point in time exactly, in accordance with your theory did the beast rise who rose from the abyss and caused all who would not worship it, to be killed?

Why does it say they were were martyred because they refused to worship the beast?

The beast and his mark of ownership have existed from the beginning of creation, where he is the serpent deceiving A&E into heeding his words and disobeying God. They were at that moment marked as his own. That's why God shed the blood of an animal to make a covering for their nakedness, to show them and us all was not lost, because God would provide Himself the Lamb whose shed blood would take away the penalty of death that came to creation in that moment. All who overcome the beast through faith in Christ are now sealed by the Spirit of Christ, because He is greater than the beast who is Satan.

One thing that premillennialists seem not to understand is the power Satan lost through binding was the power to hold mankind in fear of death. That was the purpose for him being bound that he should deceive the Gentiles no longer. The nations of the world were in bondage to fear of death until the Gospel was sent to every nation. Then Gentiles too, like Jews of faith before them could hear the Gospel of Christ proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit and all who hear and believe are no longer in fear of death, because Christ has given them assurance of eternal/everlasting life through Him.

Those of Old who died in faith, believing the Law that pointed to a Messiah/Redeemer and the Prophets that foretell of His coming, were faithful unto death. And Scripture describes the deaths the saints of Old endured without wavering in faith!

No. Groups of people during the last 2,000 years have been beheaded for their refusal to worship the beast that is still to rise from the abyss, and each group lived and reigned with Christ as living souls with human bodies (zao) in heaven for as many years as remained of the 2,000 years after they had their turn to get beheaded, but they will only live and reign with Christ until the time, which is represented symbolically as a thousand years, ends. It has an end.

For example: Those who were beheaded for their refusal to worship the beast 100 years ago lived and reigned retroactively for 1,900 years and actively for 100 years, symbolized as 1,000 years. Notice the tenses.

(.. the millennium gospel according to rwb).

How do these martyred saints live in heaven with physical MORTAL bodies for one thousand years since Scripture says flesh & blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God? And none will be immortal, and incorruptible before the last trumpet sounds?

1 Corinthians 15:50-52 (KJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53-54 (KJV) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[rwb]

Isn’t that how we learn?....

Yes, it is, and it is very time consuming. Which is why I am reluctant to repeating myself within the same thread that is here for any who might be interested to read. I know it's hard to jump into an on-going discussion and repeat some things for the benefit of new people joining in. I try to keep that in mind, but there are some here, and I'm not accusing anyone in particular, who would rather continue to ask new questions then to reply to the things already said.

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, it is, and it is very time consuming. Which is why I am reluctant to repeating myself within the same thread that is here for any who might be interested to read. I know it's hard to jump into an on-going discussion and repeat some things for the benefit of new people joining in. I try to keep that in mind, but there are some here, and I'm not accusing anyone in particular, who would rather continue to ask new questions then to reply to the things already said.

Except that the questions you ask have all been answered by myself and others, expose your fallacies, and you do not comment on anything that exposes your fallacies, but simply continue to repeat the same tired and disproved arguments like a mantra.

 

[rwb]

Except that the questions you ask have all been answered by myself and others, expose your fallacies, and you do not comment on anything that exposes your fallacies, but simply continue to repeat the same tired and disproved arguments like a mantra.

Not really! Premillennialists more than any others like to ask questions rather than explain the inconsistencies your doctrine has, because you get quite upset when truth gets in the way of your doctrine.

 

[Hobie]

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened [zōopoiéō] by the Spirit.

The word [zōopoiéō] does not refer to the resurrection of the body. It always refers only to the quickening of the Spirit.

Strongs Greek 02227 ζωοποιέω zōopoiéō, dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
from the same as 2226 and 4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or figuratively):--make alive, give life, quicken.

I did not say Ephesians 2:5 is referring to the resurrection. Please go back and read Post # 337 again and read properly this time, then quote where I said verse 5 refers to the resurrection or being raised.

Verse 6 refers to the resurrection | being raised from the dead:

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us,

5 even us being dead in sins, He has syzōopoiéō (quickened together with) Christ, (by grace ye are saved);

6. and has synegeírō (raised us up together), and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Ephesians 2:4-6).

The word syzōopoiéō refers to being made alive ("quickened") together with the Spirit's quickening of Christ after He died, by the same Spirit of God breathing life into a person:

The word synegeírō refers to being raised up together with Christ's bodily resurrection from death.

The word égersis is used to describe the resurrection of the body of Christ. It's used only once in the entire New Testament.

"And the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep [ἐγείρω egeírō] arose. And coming out of the tomb after His [ἔγερσις égersis] resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." (Matthew 27:52-53).

So the word égersis still refers to the resurrection (of the body). It's prefixed by the definite article: ".. His THE RESURRECTION". So it's a noun referring the THE resurrection, which is Christ, the last Adam's, resurrection:

“Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.” (John 11:25)

Once you drop your battle-gear and push your disengage attack-mode button (the one that's labelled as your "Ridiculous Attack Mode"), you may begin to learn something.

Were going to have to learn Greek it seems..

 

[Zao is life]

They do not live and reign with Christ in time AFTER they are martyred for their faith. They are spiritually alive in heaven as souls after they die. It is because they LIVED and REIGNED during this symbolic time, that they are souls in heaven a spiritual body of believers there. Like I said, we have to notice the tenses here.

Re 20:4 .... they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Yes I know they began to live and reign with Christ before they got beheaded, then got beheaded, then began to live and reign with Christ as the text says.

And those who got beheaded 100 years ago have lived retroactively for the previous 1.900 years.

@rwb And it's all in heaven.

Your theology truly is very, very confused.

Your strange notion of beheaded saints living as a corporate body in heaven and reigning with Christ is one step away from veneration of the spirits of the ancestors. Next you'll be making statues of the most important spirits of the ancestors and praying to them believing they are interceding between yourself and God.

I think I'm starting to realize now what doctrine led to the practice and theology practiced by so many professing Christians - it's Amillennialism that led to all that !​

 

[Zao is life]

Not really! Premillennialists more than any others like to ask questions rather than explain the inconsistencies your doctrine has, because you get quite upset when truth gets in the way of your doctrine.

Don't be too excited about @Ritajanice liking all your posts. Rita likes posts based not on whether or not she thinks people are correct in what they assert regarding scripture, but on whether or not she likes or dislikes the poster you are disagreeing with. It's very personally motivated and nothing to do with whether or not she actually agrees with much of what you say, except when it's in disagreement with someone she dislikes.

Her likes are very shallow.

 

[grafted branch]

I definitely believe that the law of God and the sins of God's people (which are transgressions of the law) provided Satan with a long scroll full of indictments that Satan could use against the brethren when accusing them before God,

but they overcame him by the blood of Christ, which represents His death for our transgressions of the law, and rising again from death.

"And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death."

So Satan had the rug pulled out from under him by the death and resurrection of Christ. He had no further indictment to bring forward against the brethren, hence no legal right to continue to appear before the seat of God the Judge, accusing the brethren.

But it isn't as though the adversary himself would respect either God's law or have any regard for his new illegal and illegitimate standing as the self-appointed prosecutor that he had been until then, so he wasn't going to leave without a fight.

Satan will never give up without a fight until the day he is destroyed in the lake of fire.

What took place is spiritual, and what we read in Revelation 12 is describing it to us in metaphorical terms. It's using metaphorical terms to describe the reality to us of what took place in heaven and what took place on earth as a result, and what is still taking place on earth (compare Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:7).

Also read from Revelation 12:17 through to Revelation 13:10, bearing in mind that the chapter divisions were only added for easy reference in 1227 A.D, when the verse numbers and verse divisions were also inserted

- the dragon who is giving the beast his seat, power and great authority is the same dragon that went to make war against "the rest of the woman's seed, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ",

and "it was given to (that beast) to war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given to it over every tribe and tongue and nation."

@grafted branch It could be that "the battle" was Satan behind the events leading to the crucifixion of Christ and the resurrection of Christ being his defeat, bearing in mind that the passage in Revelation 12:1-11 links Satan's defeat to the cross, the resurrection, and the ascension of Christ.

So that's what I believe. It's the reality of what took place and what is still taking place, written in metaphorical language, like most of the Revelation (although I do not believe that the beast of Revelation 13 will rise from the abyss until 42 months before the return of Christ).​

I think you’re agreeing that when Michael stands up in Daniel 12:1 that it is the same event as the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7. It also appears you’re placing a gap between Revelation 12:11 and Revelation 12:12, I’m assuming the same gap that’s in the 70 weeks.

I personally don’t believe in a gap but if there is a gap then it should also be seen in Daniel 12:1-3. If I’m understanding you correctly, where would you place the gap in Daniel 12? If I’m not understanding your position, let me know.

 

[Zao is life]

Were going to have to learn Greek it seems..

We should. actually. Disciples of Jesus should all learn to be able to read the scriptures in the languages they were written. All the main modern English translations are all good and done by the best scholars, but slight changes in wording causes lazy people who aren't prepared to LOOK for what it means to develop all sorts of their own doctrines built around the English text while misunderstanding the English text a lot of the time because they don't get hold of at least a Strongs Greek and Hebrew Dictionary and check and check and compare different translations.

 

[Zao is life]

I think you’re agreeing that when Michael stands up in Daniel 12:1 that it is the same event as the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7. It also appears you’re placing a gap between Revelation 12:11 and Revelation 12:12, I’m assuming the same gap that’s in the 70 weeks.

I personally don’t believe in a gap but if there is a gap then it should also be seen in Daniel 12:1-3. If I’m understanding you correctly, where would you place the gap in Daniel 12? If I’m not understanding your position, let me know.

No to whatever you seem to have assumed.

I do not believe in a gap between Daniel 9:26 and 27. Nor am I placing Daniel 12 with Revelation 12.

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to Heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Revelation 10
5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the earth lifted his hand to the heaven,
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there should no more delay.

Daniel 12
8 And I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, O my lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And He said, Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end-time.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

Revelation 10
3 And he cried with a loud voice, like a lion roaring. And when he had cried, seven thunders spoke their sounds.
4 And when the seven thunders spoke their sounds, I was about to write. And I heard a voice from Heaven saying to me, Seal up what things the seven thunders spoke, and do not write these things.

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets.

I'm also bearing in mind that Daniel 12 was already partly fulfilled in the days of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, making him a type of the man of sin of 2 Thess 2:4.

 

[rwb]

Yes I know they began to live and reign with Christ before they got beheaded, then got beheaded, then began to live and reign with Christ as the text says.

And those who got beheaded 100 years ago have lived retroactively for the previous 1.900 years.

@rwb And it's all in heaven.

Your theology truly is very, very confused.

Your strange notion of beheaded saints living as a corporate body in heaven and reigning with Christ is one step away from veneration of the spirits of the ancestors. Next you'll be making statues of the most important spirits of the ancestors and praying to them believing they are interceding between yourself and God on behalf of you.

I think I'm starting to realize now what doctrine led to the practice and theology practiced by so many professing Christians - it's Amillennialism that led to all that !

You're again ignoring the tenses. It does not say as you do "then began to live and reign with Christ". John writes they LIVED and REIGNED a thousand years. PAST TENSE, because they lived and reigned with Christ during this time symbolized a thousand years before they were martyred for their faithfulness to Christ.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (PAST TENSE)

John does not write after they are martyred for their faith "then began to live and reign"!

Why would you find it strange that the spiritual body of Christ exists in heaven as souls still alive? Are they not already a body of Christ physically while living on the earth? Does not Scripture repeatedly tell us the faithful Church as She exists on earth is ONE body, while speaking collectively of the whole?

 

[rwb]

Don't be too excited about @Ritajanice liking all your posts. Rita likes posts based not on whether or not people are correct in what they assert regarding scripture, but on whether or not she likes or dislikes the poster you are disagreeing with. It's very personally motivated and nothing to do with whether or not she actually agrees with much of what you say, except when it's in disagreement with someone she dislikes. Her likes are very shallow.

I find people generally, (speaking for myself as well) like replies they feel are based on Biblical truths. While I find it complementary, all the glory is to God alone! I don't reply to garner likes or dislikes, I reply because I am compelled by the Spirit of Christ within me to show what God has revealed to me from His written Word, especially when I find folks defending doctrines that are antithetic to biblical truth.