There is NO proof text in scripture.

[Ronald David Bruno]

To me, the question has been when did Jesus exercise his deity while on earth. Could he perform miracles at 12 or did the Father spoon-feed his deity to him for a purpose? Did the Son of God have certain attributes as an infant different than other infants?

We were created, became a living soul and knew absolutely nothing at birth. JESUS was not created spiritually, He pre-existed with the Father. He is the Creator. So I do believe He was God in the flesh, yet emptied Himself and rrelinquished His glory while on earth. So He was not like any other infant, only physically. He had to learn to walk and talk, form words, develiping speech. We believe He is God and always was, so why can't we believe He possesed full knowledge and wisdom when He first opened His eyes? God was looking through His human infant eyes. Anyways that is my opinion

 

[Enoch111]

Did the Son of God have certain attributes as an infant different than other infants?

If God had wanted to satisfy your curiosity, He would have recorded everything about Christ until He was age 30. The very fact that not a single Gospel reveals anything means that God does not want to satisfy your curiosity in this matter. Be content. We should be content with what is actually recorded:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God... Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David... And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

 

[prism]

One member here was debating the placement of a comma, in a verse.
That made me laugh.

Especially since the original languages had no punctuation.

 

[prism]

Get off the word studies, and get in the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit.

Without the translators and the discipline they learned in the art and science of translating texts, you wouldn't even have that much text to do yout text twisting.

 

[ScottA]

Without the translators and the discipline they learned in the art and science of translating texts, you wouldn't even have that much text to do yout text twisting.

That's the problem. Text can and is twisted. God did that.

And the only means we have of untwisting it, God also did. He gave us the Holy Spirit, and told us the words must be discerned spiritually.

Then the scriptures don't have that problem. Only then are they not twisted.

 

[TEXBOW]

If God had wanted to satisfy your curiosity, He would have recorded everything about Christ until He was age 30. The very fact that not a single Gospel reveals anything means that God does not want to satisfy your curiosity in this matter. Be content. We should be content with what is actually recorded:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God... Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David... And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Yes, I agree that it is by design that we do not have these things recorded in the scripture. I think mostly because they do not matter. For me, it's still interesting to try and understand. Many many things like that in the scriptures.

 

[TEXBOW]

We were created, became a living soul and knew absolutely nothing at birth. JESUS was not created spiritually, He pre-existed with the Father. He is the Creator. So I do believe He was God in the flesh, yet emptied Himself and rrelinquished His glory while on earth. So He was not like any other infant, only physically. He had to learn to walk and talk, form words, develiping speech. We believe He is God and always was, so why can't we believe He possesed full knowledge and wisdom when He first opened His eyes? God was looking through His human infant eyes. Anyways that is my opinion

I agree that Jesus was God incarnate. I think the difficulty is understanding the relinquishment, how much, and if that changed over time.

 

[David in NJ]

God has confused all language at Babel--even all scripture...which has not been rescinded.

Most of the debates here and many of the differences of belief and division among so-called Christians, are over the various translations of original languages that have been confused by God to make it foolishness to the natural man and unbelievers. And most have fallen headlong into the trap, a trap that was never meant for you/us.

Get off the word studies, and get in the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit.

The scriptures then, are not to serve as a proof text of what you think or what was taught, but should instead be a means of confirmation. The rule is NOT to test every word, but rather to "test every spirit."

Let me say it again: Get off the word studies. They are of no value to proving doctrine.

Well Scott, i definitely agree with you on walking in and Holy Spirit.
However, i have a many Proof Texts for you and this is a greatly abbreviated cup of Living Water

1.) "It is Written"(Scripture)
2.) In the beginning was the WORD(Scripture)
3.) Study to show oneself approved before God(Scripture)
4.) Scripture is of no private interpretation as Holy men were moved by the Holy Spirit(Scripture)
5.) These words I speak to you they are Spirit and they are Life(Scripture)
6.) man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God(Scripture)
7.) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Scripture)
8.) For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.(Scripture)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I agree that Jesus was God incarnate. I think the difficulty is understanding the relinquishment, how much, and if that changed over time.

Relinquish means just putting it aside, not using it, for a purpose AND being obedient to the FATHER'S WILL. Being the Second Adam, for humanity, He had to just be human and do what was necessary. He had to work, eat, sleep and feel pain and die like a human. Being God, He could have eliminated any pain, get whipped a hundred times and not feel it - if He wanted to. Heck He could have put a protective shield around him protecting Him from anything, like Superman, but that wouldn't be human.

 

[David in NJ]

If God had wanted to satisfy your curiosity, He would have recorded everything about Christ until He was age 30. The very fact that not a single Gospel reveals anything means that God does not want to satisfy your curiosity in this matter. Be content. We should be content with what is actually recorded:
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God... Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David... And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

AMEN - speculation leads to error - i often remind everyone to stand on what God has said and avoid what HE did not say.

somebody once said: "did God really say?" and then all hell broke loose

 

[farouk]

AMEN - speculation leads to error - i often remind everyone to stand on what God has said and avoid what HE did not say.

somebody once said: "did God really say?" and then all hell broke loose

@David in NJ For example, a lot of ppl seem to build a whole theory on 'because of the Apostle Paul's own divorce, then this, that and the other...' (etc.).

Whereas I've not yet found anywhere in the Bible where it actually says that Paul was divorced...

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ For example, a lot of ppl seem to build a whole theory on 'because of the Apostle Paul's own divorce, then this, that and the other...' (etc.).

Whereas I've not yet found anywhere in the Bible where it actually says that Paul was divorced...

Did you ever hear somone say that the Lord Jesus received his wisdom/mysticism while he was in Egypt as a young boy.

 

[farouk]

Did you ever hear somone say that the Lord Jesus received his wisdom/mysticism while he was in Egypt as a young boy.

No, but there is no limit to the speculation that some ppl are pleased to indulge in...

 

[ScottA]

Well Scott, i definitely agree with you on walking in and Holy Spirit.
However, i have a many Proof Texts for you and this is a greatly abbreviated cup of Living Water

1.) "It is Written"(Scripture)
2.) In the beginning was the WORD(Scripture)
3.) Study to show oneself approved before God(Scripture)
4.) Scripture is of no private interpretation as Holy men were moved by the Holy Spirit(Scripture)
5.) These words I speak to you they are Spirit and they are Life(Scripture)
6.) man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God(Scripture)
7.) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Scripture)
8.) For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.(Scripture)

:)

And that's not a problem. The problem is thinking that they trump the Holy Spirit, or prove a line of thinking that one bit of scripture seems to support, but can be countered with another scripture that seems to say the opposite.

See what I mean?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I know it's different for different people. But as it turned out for me, I first heard from God and then went to the scriptures. Which, in doing so the one confirmed the Other, and vice versa.

Unless I am missing your point, it seems you are wanting to go from an objective, verifiable way to knowing God's mind through study of the written word to a subjective, non-provable and non-biblical way.

If your way is the best way, then why throughout the NT were men TAUGHT through WORDS God's will and why epistles written in WORDS sent to various congregations? Obviously those words could be read/heard and understood correctly as they were intended to be understood, Ephesians 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 17:11. In Acts 8, the way the eunuch was given understanding (Acts of the Apostles 8:30-31) was NOT by the Spirit miraculously illuminating the eunuch's understand apart from the word but by the Spirit sending Phillip to preach WORDS to the eunuch which the eunuch understood correctly.

Those who CLAIM (for they cannot provide any proof whatsoever) they get direct, Divine, miraculous revelation of words from God/Holy Spirit contradict each other all the time. When they are not busy contradicting each other, they are contradicting the written word of the Holy Spirit which is something the Holy Spirit would never do, the Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself in giving a confusing, contradicting message (1 Corinthians 14:33).

If one cannot read the written word and understand it's meaning correctly as God intended it to be understood, then how can those who CLAIM they receive direct revelations from God/Holy Spirit be certain they correctly understood those revelatory words as God intended them to be understood?

 

[ScottA]

Unless I am missing your point, it seems you are wanting to go from an objective, verifiable way to knowing God's mind through study of the written word to a subjective, non-provable and non-biblical way.

If your way is the best way, then why throughout the NT were men TAUGHT through WORDS God's will and why epistles written in WORDS sent to various congregations? Obviously those words could be read/heard and understood correctly as they were intended to be understood, Ephesians 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 17:11. In Acts 8, the way the eunuch was given understanding (Acts of the Apostles 8:30-31) was NOT by the Spirit miraculously illuminating the eunuch's understand apart from the word but by the Spirit sending Phillip to preach WORDS to the eunuch which the eunuch understood correctly.

Those who CLAIM (for they cannot provide any proof whatsoever) they get direct, Divine, miraculous revelation of words from God/Holy Spirit contradict each other all the time. When they are not busy contradicting each other, they are contradicting the written word of the Holy Spirit which is something the Holy Spirit would never do, the Holy Spirit never contradicts Himself in giving a confusing, contradicting message (1 Corinthians 14:33).

If one cannot read the written word and understand it's meaning correctly as God intended it to be understood, then how can those who CLAIM they receive direct revelations from God/Holy Spirit be certain they correctly understood those revelatory words as God intended them to be understood?

First of all, yes, you've missed the point. I never said anything should be non-biblical. On the contrary, I said just the opposite. I said the scriptures should be a means of confirmation.

And I am not talking (trying to sell) "my own way." I am pointing out the elephant in the room regarding scripture: we can't agree on anything. We have a problem with it, so I gave the [biblical] solution. What we should be doing instead. Which is "pressing on" from our failures with the scriptures, to "all truth" from God, via the scriptures? NO...via the Spirit. Or would you recommend we continue on in failure for another thousand years?

As for "those who CLAIM" whatever-- Have we not learned that there have always been false prophets and anti-Christs, and that killing or ostracising the true prophets sent from God, is against God?! And isn't the church suppose to "hear what the Spirit says?" But, no, we have to meet Him with debating, stones, and pitchforks..

So stupid!

So, no, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying, is: Yield to the Spirit, "rise, let us be going", shut up and get out of the way!

 

[David in NJ]

:)

And that's not a problem. The problem is thinking that they trump the Holy Spirit, or prove a line of thinking that one bit of scripture seems to support, but can be countered with another scripture that seems to say the opposite.

See what I mean?

The WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT are inseparable. The paper which the Words of Life are written on is just paper.
But the words itself, they are Spirit and they are Life.
You have to have the Holy Spirit to understand and know God - neither one trumps the other - they are inseperable.

SCRIPTURE PROOF TEXT for YOU BROTHER: John 5:37-39
"And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."

 

[Bob Estey]

God has confused all language at Babel--even all scripture...which has not been rescinded.

Most of the debates here and many of the differences of belief and division among so-called Christians, are over the various translations of original languages that have been confused by God to make it foolishness to the natural man and unbelievers. And most have fallen headlong into the trap, a trap that was never meant for you/us.

Get off the word studies, and get in the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit.

The scriptures then, are not to serve as a proof text of what you think or what was taught, but should instead be a means of confirmation. The rule is NOT to test every word, but rather to "test every spirit."

Let me say it again: Get off the word studies. They are of no value to proving doctrine.

Actually, the rule(s) is: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[ScottA]

The WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT are inseparable. The paper which the Words of Life are written on is just paper.
But the words itself, they are Spirit and they are Life.
You have to have the Holy Spirit to understand and know God - neither one trumps the other - they are inseperable.

SCRIPTURE PROOF TEXT for YOU BROTHER: John 5:37-39
"And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me."

We kinda have a Potter or clay issue here.

I understand that the words of scripture are Spirit, I too have said so. But that is not the problem. The problem is when men take it from there. All I am saying is that we have the promise of all truth directly from the Spirit, and the opportunity (if not a command) to take it on that level...which would do two things:

1. Eliminate the understanding and translation issues of the past due to God confusing all language. Which should be looked at and embraced as God's deliverance from that era. Instead [shamefully] there are those who want to kill the prophets again.
2. And it would divide the wheat from the tares.

Scary, but completely biblical.

Thanks for the PROOF TEXT! Yer awesome! ;)

 

[ScottA]

Actually, the rule(s) is: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Different rule. Different subject. But thank you--it is a good reminder.