To the heavenly realm, yes. To the heavenly kingdom, no. I don’t believe in universalism but I believe hell has been done away with, and the picture I get from revelation 22, is those outside and those going inside.
The world has been “made right” in front of God.
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
That's false doctrine and one would have to consider Jesus to be a liar to believe that
I thought you said Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world and everyone is forgiven?
If that were true, then nobody needs to wash anything because they would already be forgiven
Hello @Dan Clarkston,
Like I said what separates people from God is faith. Their sins have been paid for. In the revelation is states hell is done away with. Many people don’t believe what Jesus stated about the things most happen soon, and he said about 7 times or so he would be coming soon.
While people may believe whatever they like, I continue to believe what John had mentioned.
Like I said what separates people from God is faith. Their sins have been paid for. In the revelation is states hell is done away with. Many people don’t believe what Jesus stated about the things most happen soon, and he said about 7 times or so he would be coming soon.
While people may believe whatever they like, I continue to believe what John had mentioned.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
OK, so if one lives in sin... doing all kinds of things God's Word says is sinful behavior...
They will still go to Heaven as long as they "believe" Jesus paid for their sins?
You did know that God's grace does not abound to cover those living in sin, right?
Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Hello @Dan Clarkston,
I fail and sin, when I give into my flesh. It happens to many people in their lifetime. Some say if they do they lose their entire salvation. Makes no sense to me.
I fail and sin, when I give into my flesh. It happens to many people in their lifetime. Some say if they do they lose their entire salvation. Makes no sense to me.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yeah, this happens with many who do not understand the new birth and do not understand what God did when He created mankind in His Own Image.
You say "when I give into my flesh" as though that is a normal thing all Christians do... deciding to turn away from the Lord to please their flesh. That's rebellion and it's counting the Blood of Jesus as an unholy thing
Hebrews 10:26-29
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
The reason people hold this lose of salvation idea is that they think personal sins are what condemns us, and that is far from the truth. Sins are not the basis for eternal condemnation. Sins are only a temporal matter.
Behold
Well-Known Member
All people are offered reconciliation, that is The Cross of Christ....
This is a universal offer, that has to be accepted by FAITH.
So, that means that God offers Salvation to everyone.....one BELIEVER.. at a time......and unbelievers are not saved by the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.
No, unbelievers are not saved to the Kingdom of Heaven. They will be in the heavenly realm though, due to hell being done away with. Jesus has paid for all peoples sins, unbeliever of not. His death at the cross and rising again by the Holy Spirit of God has made this possible. However faith it was separates people from being able to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, and they are founded outside the kingdom.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Then you need to do a word study in the original greek and find out that this justification is not a universal grant but a potential grant to all sorts of men and not all men (all in Greek has three meanings like in english-- every one, or all sorts, or all of a specificied group.
Jesus death and resurrection was justification for the world, in my opinion.
What separates people from God is faith. Justification in Christ. Jesus death and resurrection justified the world into reconciliation.
What separates people from God is faith. Justification in Christ. Jesus death and resurrection justified the world into reconciliation.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
So you are claiming we do not reap what we sow... that if we walk after the flesh (sin) we do not reap corruption?
That's mocking God!
Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.
Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)
This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)
In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...
G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.
If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!
Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.
So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
You should then acknowledge ALL that God says in His Word.
Of course... and you think one can live like the devil and still be saved as long as they "believe"
That's not biblical faith
People may say all kinds of things on the internet and that’s fine. In the end it’s gonna be one’s own subjectively lived life which will judged in the end. May all be encouraged to seek God out in faith, and read the Bible. I just think it’s highly of importance to remember that the Bible was not written directly to us. There are just to many things within the context itself to say so, either way, may people continue to have faith in God which pleases him.
It’s impossible to please God without faith.
The writer of Hebrews wrote saying;
If people believe this is true or not is totally between themselves. I believe that God does changes lives and changes the hearts of people who seek him out in faith.
It’s impossible to please God without faith.
The writer of Hebrews wrote saying;
If people believe this is true or not is totally between themselves. I believe that God does changes lives and changes the hearts of people who seek him out in faith.
This sentence actually does not make theological sense. "Justified the world" is not a true statement and is worded rather awkwardly. I am assuming you are using Justified in the sense of being declared righteous (or saved). If you are using Justified in another sense, then I would still argue that "Justified the world" makes no sense.
Could you reword this using different words so I can understand what you are trying to say.
All sins have been paid for. Meaning all people are able to get to God now, that is if they so choose to seek after him. It also means that God is no longer mad at the world, as so many people believe.
I see that Jesus death, burial and resurrection, has justified in having all sins paid for and in turn leads to God reconciling the world unto himself.
That is how I look at things from this perspective. I guess the only sin that remains, if there is one, is to remain in unbelief, having faith in non-faith. Perhaps. Thank you for pointing that out, I am tired at this point in the day. The world it self has been reconciled, not all people are "saved to the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew, I am close to agreeing with you in most of the areas you address. However, you are using the word Justified incorrectly. To be justified is to be declared righteous, saved if you prefer. Nobody was saved because sins were paid for. Nobody was reconciled to God because of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. One is reconciled to God upon initial faith in Christ. Christ's made justification and reconciliation possible by faith in Christ.
People will always differ and that is okay with me. People must seek out on their own accord, and search for answers on their own. Not everything I say will be correct. To think that would be silly.
I see the world as having been made right with God now today. People have had theirs sins taken care of whether they believe or not. The choice becomes what to do next.
The choice is to seek out faithful which pleases God, which makes us right with him. The world has been covered.
It’s simple, easy, and if the world hasn’t been made right with God, by the justification of his rising again, idk what to say.
When it comes to faith, that is when his righteousness is imputed to us because of him.
It doesn’t stop the world from being made right with God because of what Jesus had done, now it’s a choice to seek out God and anyone is able to get to God through faith. Whether or not they know Jesus. I believe if a person looks faithfully to God, God will show them in the afterlife whom it was that saved them, which would be the Lord Yeshua, and they were saved a by a changed heart that came by and through the Holy Spirit of God, given by Yahavah/Yahweh.
@KUWN. I just dont see what I’m saying to be wrong. It’s just that either A. People don’t understand it, or B. People just don’t believe it is true.
I see the world as having been made right with God now today. People have had theirs sins taken care of whether they believe or not. The choice becomes what to do next.
The choice is to seek out faithful which pleases God, which makes us right with him. The world has been covered.
It’s simple, easy, and if the world hasn’t been made right with God, by the justification of his rising again, idk what to say.
When it comes to faith, that is when his righteousness is imputed to us because of him.
It doesn’t stop the world from being made right with God because of what Jesus had done, now it’s a choice to seek out God and anyone is able to get to God through faith. Whether or not they know Jesus. I believe if a person looks faithfully to God, God will show them in the afterlife whom it was that saved them, which would be the Lord Yeshua, and they were saved a by a changed heart that came by and through the Holy Spirit of God, given by Yahavah/Yahweh.
@KUWN. I just dont see what I’m saying to be wrong. It’s just that either A. People don’t understand it, or B. People just don’t believe it is true.
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