The two witnessss

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Jay Ross

The seventh angel sounding announces what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth will be.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.


Where is "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens" found ? It is found in Revelation 11:15. Rejoicing great voices.

Where is "and ye that dwell in them" found ? It is found in Revelation 11:16-18. The 24 elders rejoicing.

The third woe is Satan's wrath, knowing his time is short - the time, times, half time in Revelation 12:14.

This is what the seventh angel sounding announces.Now admit God is true and your blasphemy is false.​









Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.​

 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,938
2,975
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
@Douggg both Daniel 7:9-14 and Revelation 11:15-19 are both describing the judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven and we know from Isaiah 24:21-22 that the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth who have been judged wanting will be immediately imprisoned in the pit/bottomless pit for many days/for 1,000 years to await the time of their punishment.

Now Rev 12:12 tells us, as you have posted: -
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That Satan has a short time because when he initially comes down to the earth, he is immediately locked in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years as told to us in Rev 20:1-3 and after his imprisonment for 1,000 year the Bottomless pit is unlocked and he is able to come out of the Bottomless pit and exercise his frustration on the Jews and Christian during the Little While period which is only 24 years in duration if it is not cut short. Satan knows "that when he comes down unto you, after spending 1,000 years in the Bottomless Pit having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time to accomplish his overthrowing of God Salvation Plan.

Douggg, you need to rework your diagrams because they do not match what the Bibler tells us.

Goodbye
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That Satan has a short time because when he initially comes down to the earth, he is immediately locked in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years as told to us in Rev 20:1-3
Yes, when Jesus returns, He ends Satan's time, times, half time of Satan's wrath on the inhabiters of the earth.

Satan is then immediately cast into the bottomless pit prison for 1000 years.


after his imprisonment for 1,000 year the Bottomless pit is unlocked and he is able to come out of the Bottomless pit and exercise his frustration on the Jews and Christian during the Little While period which is only 24 years in duration if it is not cut short.
I don't think it will be 24 years that Satan will deceive the nations once more. We are not told how long, but I would guess a few years.

@Douggg both Daniel 7:9-14 and Revelation 11:15-19 are both describing the judgement of the heavenly hosts in heaven and we know from Isaiah 24:21-22 that the heavenly hosts and the kings of the earth who have been judged wanting will be immediately imprisoned in the pit/bottomless pit for many days/for 1,000 years to await the time of their punishment.
No, there is nothing written in Daniel 7:9-14 about "heavenly hosts". Daniel 7:9-14 is talking about judgments on human kings - that arise out of the earth.

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

---------------------------------------------

side note: If you do a phrase search for "heavenly hosts" in the kjv - there are no results.
 
Last edited:

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is what the seventh angel sounding announces.Now admit God is true and your blasphemy is false.
Revelation 11:15-18 is the rejoicing reaction of heaven and them who dwell within heaven to when they hear the seventh angel begin to sound. Because....

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

They are rejoicing in Revelation 11:15-18 because Satan's time of having a grip on the nations is coming to a close.

You have yet to address the time, times, half times that Satan will have left. Before or after the 1260 days of the two witnesses ?
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation 11:15-18 is the rejoicing reaction of heaven and them who dwell within heaven to when they hear the seventh angel begin to sound. Because....

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

They are rejoicing in Revelation 11:15-18 because Satan's time of having a grip on the nations is coming to a close.

You have yet to address the time, times, half times that Satan will have left. Before or after the 1260 days of the two witnesses ?
I addressed the time ,times and a half .
It is the 42 months(1260 days)during the time of the two witnesses.

Christ comes and raises the dead on the same day the two dead witnesses rise from the dead .At the sound of the seventh Trump,the kingdoms of this world (including the kingdom of the beast)becomes the kingdoms of our Lord and his Christ and he reigns forever and ever as the word of God proclaims.

The mystery God as declared to his servants the prophets is fulfilled at the sound of the seventh and last trump..Paul,who is a prophet testifies to what the mystery is.


Revelation 10:7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


1 Corinth 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.




The seventh Trump is the last trump in the bible which Paul was speaking of .That is when the mystery God is finished as he had declared to his prophets such as Paul.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
7,938
2,975
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Yes, when Jesus returns, He ends Satan's time, times, half time of Satan's wrath on the inhabiters of the earth.

Satan is then immediately cast into the bottomless pit prison for 1000 years.

I don't think it will be 24 years that Satan will deceive the nations once more. We are not told how long, but I would guess a few years.

No, there is nothing written in Daniel 7:9-14 about "heavenly hosts". Daniel 7:9-14 is talking about judgments on human kings - that arise out of the earth.

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

---------------------------------------------

side note: If you do a phrase search for "heavenly hosts" in the kjv - there are no results.

Douggg, have it your way, how could you possibly be wrong since you have convinced yourself that your timeline of understanding of the Book of Revelation is so spot on and "Biblically Correct" in your own eyes.

You have made so many mistakes in you understanding of the scriptures that it is pointless to continue. You are persistent in your postings even though others on this forum disagree with your conclusions.

Goodbye
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then when is the abomination of desolation setup ?
You've been reading about it.

Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You've been reading about it.

Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now you are reading about it. When is abomination of desolation set up ?

You are saying the 1260 days of the two witnesses, and the 42 months of the beast's rule, and Satan's time, times, half time are all the same period that ends when seventh trumpet sounds and Jesus begins His rule here on earth over the kingdoms of the world.

So when is the abomination desolation setup that there will be 1290 days and 1335 days that follow it being setup ?
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Daniel 12:
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now you are reading about it. When is abomination of desolation set up ?

You are saying the 1260 days of the two witnesses, and the 42 months of the beast's rule, and Satan's time, times, half time are all the same period that ends when seventh trumpet sounds and Jesus begins His rule here on earth over the kingdoms of the world.

So when is the abomination desolation setup that there will be 1290 days and 1335 days that follow it being setup ?

Before I answer ,let me ask you a question.

Do you agree with Jesus that there will be great tribulation at that time when the abomination of desolation is set up?.
Or do you disagree with Jesus?


Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Before I answer ,let me ask you a question.

Do you agree with Jesus that there will be great tribulation at that time when the abomination of desolation is set up?.
Or do you disagree with Jesus?


Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Yes, I believe that the abomination of desolation setup will trigger the beginning of the great tribulation.

And when them in Judaea see it, Jesus tells them to flee to the mountains without delay.


Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I believe that the abomination of desolation setup will trigger the beginning of the great tribulation.

And when them in Judaea see it, Jesus tells them to flee to the mountains without delay.


Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


If you agree with Jesus that the great tribulation takes place when the abomination that causes desolation is set up,then you should also agree it takes place in Daniel 12:1 when Daniel says there is tribulation ,the likes of which has never been because Jesus was quoting from this verse.


"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time:"

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.


As you can see in Daniel 12:1-2,the great tribulation takes place at this time ,and this is also the time them who sleep in the dust awake and are judged..

The king of the norths armed forces set up the abomination that causes desolation when he goes forth to destroy and annihilate many.

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.



And as Daniel 12:1-2 shows The resurection takes place at the same time as the great tribulation and the great tribulation is caused by the abomination of desolation.

Your reading about the abomination of desolation in revelation 11:12-13.It is what causes the great earthquake and a cloud to depart from Jerusalem on resurrection day.


Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.




By day 1335,everyone who offends in Christs kingdom will have been disposed of.The only people left in his kingdom he recieves at the seventh Trump,will have been saved (delivered)as in Daniel 12:1.
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, I believe that the abomination of desolation setup will trigger the beginning of the great tribulation.

And when them in Judaea see it, Jesus tells them to flee to the mountains without delay.


Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
PS
It is Israeli policy that the abomination that causes desolation should be set up in Jerusalem ,but also in all the cities of all the enemies that have attacked it So there will be many earthquakes in diverse places on that day.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you agree with Jesus that the great tribulation takes place when the abomination that causes desolation is set up,then you should also agree it takes place in Daniel 12:1 when Daniel says there is tribulation ,the likes of which has never been because Jesus was quoting from this verse.


"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time:"

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.


As you can see in Daniel 12:1-2,the great tribulation takes place at this time ,and this is also the time them who sleep in the dust awake and are judged..

The king of the norths armed forces set up the abomination that causes desolation when he goes forth to destroy and annihilate many.

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.



And as Daniel 12:1-2 shows The resurection takes place at the same time as the great tribulation and the great tribulation is caused by the abomination of desolation.

Your reading about the abomination of desolation in revelation 11:12-13.It is what causes the great earthquake and a cloud to depart from Jerusalem on resurrection day.


Revelation 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.




By day 1335,everyone who offends in Christs kingdom will have been disposed of.The only people left in his kingdom he recieves at the seventh Trump,will have been saved (delivered)as in Daniel 12:1.
You did not say when the abomination of desolation is setup.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
PS
It is Israeli policy that the abomination that causes desolation should be set up in Jerusalem ,but also in all the cities of all the enemies that have attacked it So there will be many earthquakes in diverse places on that day.
What will be the abomination of desolation set up ?
 

tailgator

Well-Known Member
Jun 23, 2024
2,845
221
63
61
North Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, you did not. When does the 1335 days end ? What event ?

Do you agree with this chart ?

View attachment 54022
No.A stature does not cause desolation.Nor does a statue cause great tribulation .
The armed forces have weapons that can annihilate many.They can kill a billion people in one day.The armed forces do not use statues to destroy and annihilate many.


There is only 45 days from the day the abomination of desolation is set up to the 1335 day.
The 1335 day is counting from the day the daily sacrifice is abolished.Not from the day the abomination of desolation Is set up.
There is 1290 days from the day the daily sacrifice is abolished to the day the abomination of desolation is set up by the armed forces.
 
Last edited:

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,465
263
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No.A stature does not cause desolation.
The armed forces have weapons that can annihilate many.They can kill a billion people in one day.The armed forces do not use statues to destroy and annihilate many.
In Daniel 11:31. Antiochus IV had the abomination of desolation , a statue image, placed in the temple. That was historic, but it prefugures what the end times abomination of desolation will be.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

In Revelaton13:14-15, the false prophet will have a statue image made of the beast, and will require everyone to worship it. Where will that statue image be located ?

The abomination of desolation in Antiochus IV's day and in the end times is something that will be worshiped.

"desolation" means the temple will be made desolate of the worship and praise of the One True God.

It doe not mean destruction, a weapon of physical annihilation. The armies of the world already have nuclear weapons all around the globe, with delivery systems. It is not necessary for them to place some thing in Jerusalem, nor on the temple mount.
 
Last edited: