The Thousand Years of the Millenium will not be on Earth

[Davy]

The throne is in heaven and the saints go to heaven and reign a thousand years as they vindicate God's judgment...

FALSE... that doctrine is from men, not written in God's Word. It was a false doctrine that John Darby devised in his Dispensationalist theory, using it to try... and prop up his preaching of a false pre-trib rapture theory, which is a false doctrine you have shown on this forum that you also... believe, showing how deceived you are and go directly against Bible Scripture.

 

[Hobie]

FALSE... that doctrine is from men, not written in God's Word. It was a false doctrine that John Darby devised in his Dispensationalist theory, using it to try... and prop up his preaching of a false pre-trib rapture theory, which is a false doctrine you have shown on this forum that you also... believe, showing how deceived you are and go directly against Bible Scripture.

Here is Gods Word..

Psalm 11:4
The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Acts 7:49
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

 

[Davy]

Here is Gods Word..

Psalm 11:4
The Lord is in his holy temple, the Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Acts 7:49
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

When you begin to listen to what Apostle Paul taught about the timing of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 with the future 'resurrection', then you might understand that Christ's coming to gather His Church will only happen on the LAST DAY of this world when the resurrection happens...

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

You probably don't even realize that event of the dead rising first at Jesus' coming is what He was saying in John 5:28-29 also.

And John 6:40 tells us when the raising of the saints will be, i.e., on the LAST DAY of this present world like Lord Jesus said.

So before you are even able... to converse about the subject of Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church, and where He will descend to from heaven, you must first address relevant Bible Scripture like I have shown above.

 

[Hobie]

When you begin to listen to what Apostle Paul taught about the timing of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 with the future 'resurrection', then you might understand that Christ's coming to gather His Church will only happen on the LAST DAY of this world when the resurrection happens...

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

You probably don't even realize that event of the dead rising first at Jesus' coming is what He was saying in John 5:28-29 also.

And John 6:40 tells us when the raising of the saints will be, i.e., on the LAST DAY of this present world like Lord Jesus said.

So before you are even able... to converse about the subject of Christ's future coming and gathering of His Church, and where He will descend to from heaven, you must first address relevant Bible Scripture like I have shown above.

As the saints are taken to heaven, then after the thousand years the New Jerusalem comes down and the earth and heaven made new. Scripture is clear on that..

 

[Jay Ross]

As the saints are taken to heaven, then after the thousand years the New Jerusalem comes down and the earth and heaven made new. Scripture is clear on that..

Do I smell the rhetoric of a Pre-trib believer who is telling us that He is hoping to be taken to heaven for 1,000 years after which the New Jerusalem will come down and the heaven and the earth are made new again.

Oh well, the true colours are going on display.

 

[tailgator]

As the saints are taken to heaven, then after the thousand years the New Jerusalem comes down and the earth and heaven made new. Scripture is clear on that..

According to revelation 20.
The saints are on earth when Gog compasses their camp about and fire comes down from heaven and devours Gog.



Revelation 20

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Davy]

As the saints are taken to heaven, then after the thousand years the New Jerusalem comes down and the earth and heaven made new. Scripture is clear on that..

The saints are not taken up into Heaven by Lord Jesus on the day of His coming. They meet Jesus in the "air" on His way to the Mount of Olives, as written in 1 Thess.4 and Zechariah 14.

And as I have already explained in other posts per what Apostle Paul taught about being 'changed' on that day of Christ's coming, and then "caught up" to Him in the "air", that is about our being changed from our body of corruption (flesh) to the body of incorruption ("spiritual body"). That spirit body is a 'heavenly' type body. Yet it can live and exist upon this earth. That is how the following event when Jesus comes will happen...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

The above event confirms what Christ's Apostles in Acts 1 were told by the two angels, that Jesus shall come "in like manner" how He ascended to Heaven. His disciples were upon that Mount of Olives watching Him ascend in a cloud up into Heaven. That is how He is going to return to this earth.

The idea of being raptured to Heaven by Christ is a false doctrine by men that push the false pre-trib rapture theory. It is not Biblical, as being changed to a heavenly 'type' body (spiritual body) is NOT the same thing as being taken up into Heaven where The Father is.

 

[Hobie]

Do I smell the rhetoric of a Pre-trib believer who is telling us that He is hoping to be taken to heaven for 1,000 years after which the New Jerusalem will come down and the heaven and the earth are made new again.

Oh well, the true colours are going on display.

You go by God's Word not man's ideas, Christ said He goes to prepare a place for us in heaven.. Need to read your Bible...

 

[Hobie]

The saints are not taken up into Heaven by Lord Jesus on the day of His coming. They meet Jesus in the "air" on His way to the Mount of Olives, as written in 1 Thess.4 and Zechariah 14.

And as I have already explained in other posts per what Apostle Paul taught about being 'changed' on that day of Christ's coming, and then "caught up" to Him in the "air", that is about our being changed from our body of corruption (flesh) to the body of incorruption ("spiritual body"). That spirit body is a 'heavenly' type body. Yet it can live and exist upon this earth. That is how the following event when Jesus comes will happen...

Zech 14:3-5
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

The above event confirms what Christ's Apostles in Acts 1 were told by the two angels, that Jesus shall come "in like manner" how He ascended to Heaven. His disciples were upon that Mount of Olives watching Him ascend in a cloud up into Heaven. That is how He is going to return to this earth.

The idea of being raptured to Heaven by Christ is a false doctrine by men that push the false pre-trib rapture theory. It is not Biblical, as being changed to a heavenly 'type' body (spiritual body) is NOT the same thing as being taken up into Heaven where The Father is.

The just get their reward in the heavenly kingdom. The unjust get their reward in fires of perdition. That is the core Christian belief.

 

[Jay Ross]

You go by God's Word not man's ideas, Christ said He goes to prepare a place for us in heaven.. Need to read your Bible...

Yes, we should read the scriptures and not make up our interpretations to make us feel good.

Yes, it is recorded that Christ said this: -

John 14:1-6: - The Way, the Truth, and the Life

14:1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know."

5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?"

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

NKJV​

In this passage from John, Jesus does not explicitly tell us when He is coming gain.

It is my understanding that Jesus is returning to judge both the wicked and the righteous at the end of the Seventh Age after the Little While Period during which time Satan, the judged heavenly hosts and the Judged Kings of the earth are free to roam the earth bringing great tribulation upon those who are alive at that time after the Bottomless Pit is unlocked after they had been imprisoned for 1,000 years.

Now you did explicitly state this: -

As the saints are taken to heaven, then after the thousand years the New Jerusalem comes down and the earth and heaven made new. Scripture is clear on that.

As I previously suggested, that this sounds just like the Pre-trib rhetoric, where they too are taken up into heaven before the near future occurrence of Jacob's trouble in our near future.

It seems to me that you need to read the scriptures more carefully yourself.

 

[ewq1938]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us!

 

[Davy]

The just get their reward in the heavenly kingdom. The unjust get their reward in fires of perdition. That is the core Christian belief.

Yes, but according to GOD's timing and condition He sets, NOT ours.

HIS Word reveals those requirements, and we are expected to listen to HIM and believe what HE... says as written, and NOT what men say.

And what HIS Word shows is that the 'heavenly' dimension is going to be revealed RIGHT HERE, ON EARTH. Even the wicked will see The Father sitting on His Throne on that day when Jesus comes and all are changed to the spirit body, as revealed at the end of Revelation 6.

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV


As I showed from HIS Word, the faithful saints gathered by Christ on the last day of this world meet Him on the way to the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from.

Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

 

[Hobie]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us!

The mansions are in heaven my friend, and that's where He takes the saints. The wicked are left slain on earth so Satan has no one to tempt during the thousand years. Only then are the wicked brought up to face their punishment at the resurrection of damnation as the New Jerusalem comes down with the saints. Christ brings down fire from heaven as the wicked attack the Holy city and like Sodom are destroyed by the eternal fire which consumes them..

 

[Jay Ross]

The mansions are in heaven my friend, and that's where He takes the saints. The wicked are left slain on earth so Satan has no one to tempt during the thousand years. Only then are the wicked brought up to face their punishment at the resurrection of damnation as the New Jerusalem comes down with the saints. Christ brings down fire from heaven as the wicked attack the Holy city and like Sodom are destroyed by the eternal fire which consumes them..

Oh dear, Hobie, you are reading into the silence of the scriptures that Christ is preparing mansions in heaven for us, but Christ only stated that he was preparing a place for us to inherit/possess, and that place is the whole earth which the righteous are given after the GWTR judgement. Also, during the 1,000 years that Satan and his cohorts are imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, Satan or his cohorts have no direct ability to influence the people living on the earth during this time period. However, Christ did tell us in two parables that Satan intends to empower his good and faithful servants by giving them "money", i.e. talents/minas, to run point for him while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, to bring in the harvest that he wants to have.

You need to burn all of the false doctrine that you have been given to adopt and just take God's scriptures and red them with the eyes and ears that He will provide you with to gain His understanding of them. You have much unlearning to do of the false doctrine that you have absorbed before you can gain God's understanding that is to come down from heaven in our near future when God's everlasting Kingdom is established here on the face of the earth.

Goodbye Hobie

 

[ewq1938]

The mansions are in heaven my friend, and that's where He takes the saints.

People only go there when they die. When Christ comes here from heaven, that changes and no one goes to heaven or to those mansions anymore.

The wicked are left slain on earth so Satan has no one to tempt during the thousand years.

But the bible does not say this happens, quite the opposite:

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

https://www.blueletterbible .org/kjv/rev/19/15/t_conc_1186015

https://biblehub .com/interlinear/revelation/19-15.htm

(remove the spaces before .com and .org in the two links)


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves some mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Only then are the wicked brought up to face their punishment at the resurrection of damnation as the New Jerusalem comes down with the saints.

This also does not match what Rev 20 says. The wicked are resurrected only for judgment, nothing else and NJ does not come down until there is a new Earth.

What you say comes from what your denomination teaches.
What I say comes solely from what Rev 20 says.

Christ brings down fire from heaven as the wicked attack the Holy city and like Sodom are destroyed by the eternal fire which consumes them..

No, all false. Jesus does not send the fire, the Father does. Have you never read it?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

God here is not Christ, like in this verse:

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The Defeat of Satan
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

That's not Jesus even though Jesus is God. This is God the Father, not God the Son.

 

[Davy]

The mansions are in heaven my friend, and that's where He takes the saints. The wicked are left slain on earth so Satan has no one to tempt during the thousand years. Only then are the wicked brought up to face their punishment at the resurrection of damnation as the New Jerusalem comes down with the saints. Christ brings down fire from heaven as the wicked attack the Holy city and like Sodom are destroyed by the eternal fire which consumes them..

Nope! The "mansions" of John 14, (which means 'abodes' in the Greek), will be ON EARTH, in THE HOLY LAND, where Christ's future Millennial "sanctuary" will be. That will be The Father's House which Lord Jesus was pointing to, ON EARTH. (see Ezekiel 40 through 47).

 

[Hobie]

Oh dear, Hobie, you are reading into the silence of the scriptures that Christ is preparing mansions in heaven for us, but Christ only stated that he was preparing a place for us to inherit/possess, and that place is the whole earth which the righteous are given after the GWTR judgement. Also, during the 1,000 years that Satan and his cohorts are imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, Satan or his cohorts have no direct ability to influence the people living on the earth during this time period. However, Christ did tell us in two parables that Satan intends to empower his good and faithful servants by giving them "money", i.e. talents/minas, to run point for him while he is imprisoned in the Bottomless pit, to bring in the harvest that he wants to have.

You need to burn all of the false doctrine that you have been given to adopt and just take God's scriptures and red them with the eyes and ears that He will provide you with to gain His understanding of them. You have much unlearning to do of the false doctrine that you have absorbed before you can gain God's understanding that is to come down from heaven in our near future when God's everlasting Kingdom is established here on the face of the earth.

Goodbye Hobie

The only ones left on earth are the wicked dead, the saints are in heaven. This idea comes from one wants to lead the wicked putting himself as what Christ warned would come at the end False messiah that would be wandering here and there and gathering the wicked against God's holy city that comes down after the thousand years. Only to be defeated and meet their end with fire from heaven, I don't think you want to be one of them...

 

[Jay Ross]

The only ones left on earth are the wicked dead, the saints are in heaven. This idea comes from one wants to lead the wicked putting himself as what Christ warned would come at the end False messiah that would be wandering here and there and gathering the wicked against God's holy city that comes down after the thousand years. Only to be defeated and meet their end with fire from heaven, I don't think you want to be one of them...

Hobie,

We love the Lord and worship Him and know that after the GWTR Judgement that we, the righteous will inherit, i.e., be given possession of, the whole earth. We also have been told that God will renew/refurbish the heavens and the earth and that He will bring Himself down to the face of the earth and that He will commune with us and that we will commune with Him and worship Him.

What you teach as a "teacher" of the JW "denomination" is a false understanding of God's plan and purposes. This is clearly demonstrated in your post which I have quoted above.

This is what Rev 20:7ff states: -

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Rev 20:7- 15: - Satanic Rebellion Crushed​

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7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

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The Great White Throne Judgment​

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11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Then what immediately follows in Rev 21-22 is the renewing/refurbishing of the Heavens and the earth.

But Hobie, you have Satan rising back out of the Lake of Fire to gather an army to go up against the renewed heavens and the earth. Let us read again what you had posted to see the false teaching that you keep pushing on this forum: -

The only ones left on earth are the wicked dead, the saints are in heaven. This idea comes from one wants to lead the wicked putting himself as what Christ warned would come at the end False messiah that would be wandering here and there and gathering the wicked against God's holy city that comes down after the thousand years. Only to be defeated and meet their end with fire from heaven, I don't think you want to be one of them...

Goodbye Hobie