First of all, Daniel 9 is written in Hebrew, not Greek. Secondly, these translators, as far as I know, do not translate ancient languages. You will not translate the Masoretic text there, and you will not translate ancient Greek.
The Third (Ezekiel's) Temple of Israel, Project 1534
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I have been using the Russian translation of the Bible from the very beginning, which is used by most Russian-speaking Christians, and there is no problem with the interpretation of Daniel 9. When I came to the English forums, I saw that there was something wrong with the English translations. I asked someone who understands Hebrew better than me, and they explained to me that this is simply a verb agreement with the noun "week", which is masculine. There is no separate pronoun "he" in the Masoretic text.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Nope!! Their only hope of eternal salvation is RIGHT NOW, during this Age of God's Grace through faith in Jesus. It's all Him, or it's nothing at all. Rom. 8:9
You are NOT the judge of eternal life or eternal death for anyone.
The repentant thief on the cross says so, backed up by the words of Jesus.
WHAT Temple building???
Oh, there are vain hopes and dreams that the Jews want to build one, but I don't see any Temple construction going on by the hands of men YET, or should I say NEVER.
THE ONLY temple that has been ongoing since Pentecost, is in process still, and it is that which God has been building and making within all who come to Him, through faith in Christ.
All of such are called NEW creatures, having received the Gift of His Holy Spirit, by which they become a "living stone", an eternally living member of the ever living and ever growing body of Christ. 1 John 5:11-13
That's the temple that I am interested in, aka the Heavenly Jerusalem, of which looks like nothing that you have conjured up in your architectural drawings, and never will.
Why?
Because the temple of God and the Heavenly city ARE PEOPLE, who are born again Christians, being both Jews and Gentiles, of which God Himself sees NO DIFFERENCE between them. All are sinners saved by His Grace, through FAITH.
Heb. 9
[28] So Christ [the sin bearer] was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time WITHOUT SIN unto salvation.
And so you and most all Premils believe that temple sacrificing of animals will be necessary, because the blood of Christ cannot be offered again for the unsaved mortals that will be filling up their electric "refrigerators" with sacrificed meat. What?? Really??
And you think that I'm being blasphemous??
You haven't a clue about the blood of Christ, because if you did, then you WOULD KNOW THAT NO ONE SHALL BE SAVED WITHOUT IT!!
The blood of animals can never achieve the efficacy of atonement for the REMOVAL of sins, except Christ.
This ends the fictional story of the Premil doctrine right there.
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You are correct re. Daniel 9 written in Hebrew. My oversight.
Strong's Interlinear translates directly from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
It includes "he" in Daniel 9:27 because a covenant is between persons.
Because "he" was and is Messiah the Prince.
Who announced His New Covenant in Matthew 26:28.
And fulfilled it at Calvary.
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When you read a Hebrew text, you understand the full meaning of what is written. If there is ambiguity, you understand both meanings. When a translator translates into your language, he cannot translate both meanings at once, he has to choose. The translator chooses according to his religious beliefs, and he chooses the option that seems more appropriate to him, and he can make a mistake.
There are other places in Scripture where translators in most translations have chosen the wrong meaning. For example:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. (Mark 4:12)
In the original Greek, this verse deviates from the norms of the ancient Greek language. The negation "not" applies only to homogeneous members of the sentence, which have the same form. Here, the last word has a different form, so "not" does not apply to the last word. The entire sentence should read as,
so that they see with their eyes, but do not perceive; they hear with their ears, but do not understand, lest they turn, and their sins will be forgiven
and their sins will be forgiven - The sins of the Jews will be forgiven without their repentance.
A professor who taught ancient Greek at universities explained this to me at great length.
Another teacher, who taught Hebrew at the university, explained to us that the prophet Isaiah's prophecy is written exactly the same way, the last two verbs have a different form, and therefore do not have the signs of negation, like the previous members of the sentence:
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. (Isaiah 6:10)
and convert, and be healed - here there is a sense of the assertion that in spite of the previous members of the sentence, which speak of the coarseness of the heart, the deafness and blindness of the Jewish people, this people will be converted and will be healed.
When you read it in the English translation, and when I read it in the Russian translation, the meaning is lost, it seems to us that the Jews are under a fatal predestination, remaining in Judaism, never to be saved. But God does not see it that way: the Jewish people will be saved by the grace of God without any effort on the part of the majority of this people.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(Romans 11:25,26)
Here too we do not see signs of repentance among the Jews: simply “the full number of Gentiles” enters somewhere, and after that suddenly all of Israel is saved.
In Daniel, "he" refers to the week itself. The covenant with God was and is, but the covenant will become firm for those who understand the essence of the prophecy about the 70 weeks, and understand how this will now be realized in the construction of the Third Temple and the appearance there of the messengers of Christ from the nations.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
That promise, which was prophesied of concerning the "Promised one", who WAS TO come out of Sion as the Deliverer, HAS BEEN FULFILLED.
In the context of John 8, the Jews were arguing with Jesus that THEY were of Abraham's seed, and thus concluded that Jesus had a devil.
[22] Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above [Sion]: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
[24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he [sent from Sion], ye SHALL die in your sins.
In Rom. 11:25-26, Paul's conclusion, that "all Israel shall be saved", incorporates both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Jesus, ever since Pentecost.
Mat. 3
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Gal. 3
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [Jew and Gentile] are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Therefore, the Israel of God is BOTH Jew and Gentile who have been baptized in Christ as believers in "the Promised one" who DID COME FROM out of Sion.
Heb. 9
[28] So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them [both converted Jews and Gentiles] that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
"And so, ALL Israel [being converted Jews and Gentiles] shall be saved".
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
1 Cor. 2
[5] That YOUR faith should NOT stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.
1 John 2
[27] But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
In Daniel 9:27 "he" is Messiah the Prince of Daniel 9:25, as Messiah the Prince is the grammatical antecedent/referent to which "he" ultimately refers.
Confirmed in Matthew 26:28 and fulfilled at Calvary. Hebrews 9:15-16
All 70 weeks have been "determined" (Daniel 9:24), and the covenant became firm at Calvary, and the Church is the third temple.
All fulfilled.
Any Jew who acts upon that is destined for hell.
Didn't happen in Numbers 21:6 or Numbers 25:9 or on other occasions.
Unprecedented and impossible, as the Scripture you cited below itself declares.
So that they see with their eyes, but do not perceive; they hear with their ears, but do not understand, lest they turn, and their sins will be forgiven
There is no futurized "will be" in the verse. It is "should be" i.e. a conditional description of what occurs when conditions are met.
Their sins are forgiven only when they turn.
And only a remnant will turn. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27
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Daniel 9:27 is not yet fulfilled. The second half of the week is not over. Verse 27 does not apply to Jesus, but to the period of 2,478 years from Esther's reception into the house of the eunuchs until the beginning of the week of judgment in Nisan 2020. This period, the "super week" of 2,478 years, will confirm the covenant for many who understand this prophecy.
I have told you what the meaning of these verses is if you read them according to the rules of ancient languages. In part, the Russian translation of Mark 4:12 conveys this meaning correctly. In new Russian translations, they lie. How things stand in the English translations of Mark 4:12, I cannot judge, because I do not speak English.
Salvation does not look like the Protestants paint it. There are saints - they sacrificed themselves to God, they are the chosen ones. And there are ordinary people who help these saints in some way. God saves both. God saves the latter, despite the fact that they are essentially sinners. God does not care about the number of sinners, God cares about the number of saints. If there had been 10 righteous people in Sodom, Sodom would still exist today. The Jews will be saved because they will accept saints from the nations into their bosom - after the construction of the Third Temple.
I'm bored arguing with you. Here's a thread that shows how Daniel 9:27 can be fulfilled:
2300 evenings and mornings will end on 1st Nisan 2027
In what way were the Jews to accept Jesus Christ at the First Coming?
First, they were not to condemn Him to death.
Second, they were to try to fulfill in their lives what He taught them by His preaching and by His example.
In what way are the Jews to accept Jesus Christ now?
First, build the Third Temple exactly as Ezekiel prophesied.
Second, allow the saints from among the nations to enter the eastern gate of the Temple from Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur.
Thirdly, they must carry out in their lives what the saints in Christ teach them by their example.
Has anything changed between the First and Second Coming? What has changed is that now the Jews will have to accept not just one Jesus Christ, but many people in Jesus Christ, from all nations.
The Jews will be saved first of all nations. The Gentiles should not deceive themselves with empty expectations:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(Romans 11:25-27)
The repentance of the Jews will not be in the adoption of the religious nonsense of Protestantism, but in the real acceptance of Christ, who appeared in the flesh of many saints who will be received in Israel. The first step towards this will be the construction of Ezekiel's Temple:
First, they were not to condemn Him to death.
Second, they were to try to fulfill in their lives what He taught them by His preaching and by His example.
In what way are the Jews to accept Jesus Christ now?
First, build the Third Temple exactly as Ezekiel prophesied.
Second, allow the saints from among the nations to enter the eastern gate of the Temple from Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur.
Thirdly, they must carry out in their lives what the saints in Christ teach them by their example.
Has anything changed between the First and Second Coming? What has changed is that now the Jews will have to accept not just one Jesus Christ, but many people in Jesus Christ, from all nations.
The Jews will be saved first of all nations. The Gentiles should not deceive themselves with empty expectations:
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(Romans 11:25-27)
The repentance of the Jews will not be in the adoption of the religious nonsense of Protestantism, but in the real acceptance of Christ, who appeared in the flesh of many saints who will be received in Israel. The first step towards this will be the construction of Ezekiel's Temple:
Anything to avoid Christ at Calvary, eh?
And His complete and perfect fulfillment Scripturally, historically, and grammatically.
Nothing to argue about.
The Third Temple does not deny Christ, on the contrary, it affirms Him.Anything to avoid Christ at Calvary, eh?
And His complete and perfect fulfillment Scripturally, historically, and grammatically.
Nothing to argue about.
All the rituals of the Third Temple point to the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
(1) The absence of a curtain before the Holy of Holies.
(2) The absence of a daily evening sacrifice.
(3) The absence of the office of high priest.
(4) The absence of the slaughter of Passover lambs and the absence of the procedure of smearing the doorposts with the blood of lambs.
(5) The absence of the lot of two goats on Yom Kippur.
(6) The obligatory washing of feet in a stream of water flowing from under the threshold of the Temple by all visitors.
(7) Daily peace offerings of lambs, the meat of which will be baked in the fire in the form of kebabs.
All these rituals point to the completed Sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the acceptance of this Sacrifice by the Jewish people. Visiting the Temple and participating in a meal with peace offerings is a form of the Eucharist, a return to the agape of the first church.
But when the people of the land shall come before the Lord in the solemn feasts, he that entereth in by the way of the north gate to worship shall go out by the way of the south gate; and he that entereth by the way of the south gate shall go forth by the way of the north gate: he shall not return by the way of the gate whereby he came in, but shall go forth over against it. (Ezekiel 46:9)
Testing the Holy Spirit.
Any normal Christian who believes what is written in the Bible and believes that the prophet Ezekiel had a word from God, not from Satan, when seeing the visualization of this word of God describing the future Temple, should have a feeling of awe before God and joy that the incarnation of the Word of God has come closer.
If the vision of the prophet Ezekiel causes you a feeling of anxiety for your future and a feeling of grief, then think about what kind of god you believe in and what kind of spirit leads you if you are saddened by God's good word to us?
Ezekiel's Temple and the Mount of Ezekiel's Vision:
Any normal Christian who believes what is written in the Bible and believes that the prophet Ezekiel had a word from God, not from Satan, when seeing the visualization of this word of God describing the future Temple, should have a feeling of awe before God and joy that the incarnation of the Word of God has come closer.
If the vision of the prophet Ezekiel causes you a feeling of anxiety for your future and a feeling of grief, then think about what kind of god you believe in and what kind of spirit leads you if you are saddened by God's good word to us?
Ezekiel's Temple and the Mount of Ezekiel's Vision:
Your temple rituals are conspicuously nonexistent in the New Testament.
Here is the Christ-affirming ordinance in the NT Church that has transcended and replaced any such rituals:
1 Corinthians 11
23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the end of your quote:
"... till he come."
This, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, will happen before we begin to offer sacrifices to the Lord in the Third Temple.
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