The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

Waiting to die to be "purged" of one's sins is the height of futility. Fear God and depart from evil...now...before you die.

No one is waiting to die to be purged from sin. How many times does this have to be explained to you. @VictoryinJesus is not waiting for this non of us are

We have been saved. By god”s
Mercy not by our good deeds (Titus 3:5

We have been saved by grace through faith who 2

We have been made alive after being dead in trespasses and sin eph 1

We can go on and on only you are waiting and hoping your sin is maybe purged. That’s your gospel not ours.

 

[marks]

How many times does this have to be explained to you.

You must know by now that's not the point, which is essentially to troll you and others.

Much love!

 

[Rita]

@Eternally Grateful - so sorry but as Ritajanice mentioned, I am no longer a moderator. I stepped down quite a few weeks ago xxx

 

[Episkopos]

No one is waiting to die to be purged from sin. How many times does this have to be explained to you. @VictoryinJesus is not waiting for this non of us are

You have a double speak filter going on. Either you believe in a higher walk in Christ without sin...or you don't. By FAR the vast majority of those who have been promised life by pastors and institutions have no idea of any power other than what they can generate from themselves. That's why you think walking in the Spirit is based on works...because you haven't yet experienced any power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked.

We have been saved. By god”s
Mercy not by our good deeds (Titus 3:5

a strawman. You espouse trying to be Christian WITHOUT the supernatural grace to do so. You deny the power. No amount of good deeds can get you translated into the higher walk...only by the miraculous grace of God.

You have a mighty confusion going on.

We have been saved by grace through faith who 2

By what standard? By your own estimation? Because you read it in the bible? Where is God in that? Where is the reality?

We have been made alive after being dead in trespasses and sin eph 1

What does that mean? Alive in the Spirit? Walking as Jesus walked? Beyond just a religious slogan...what are you talking about? What can you do that a normal human can't?

We can go on and on only you are waiting and hoping your sin is maybe purged. That’s your gospel not ours.

Precisely the opposite. You are waiting to die for your purging. And waiting to die to be free of sin. Waiting to die to enter into eternal life. Waiting to die to enter into the kingdom...and the eternal abiding place in Christ...etc

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Waiting to die to be "purged" of one's sins is the height of futility. Fear God and depart from evil...now...before you die.

I don’t disagree. But how someone interprets that goes off in many directions. You asked another member “what can you do that a normal human can’t?” I wish I knew what that means to you. Same question to you…what can you do that a normal human can’t? Can you give examples and not just broad statements that could mean anything. Because then …you could be saying you could go out to the ocean and take off your shoes and walk on the water. That’s something normal humans can’t do. I need examples of what you are saying.

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t disagree. But how someone interprets that goes off in many directions.

As we see here...

You asked another member “what can you do that a normal human can’t?” I wish I knew what that means to you. Same question to you…what can you do that a normal human can’t?

In Christ is no sin. We have access INTO Christ by grace through faith to do what is impossible for the flesh.

Can you give examples and not just broad statements that could mean anything. Because then …you could be saying you could go out to the ocean and take off your shoes and walk on the water. That’s something normal humans can’t do. I need examples of what you are saying.

God invites us into a heavenly walk...in His love, joy and peace. From there we do the will of God and are empowered in a walk over sin.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As we see here...


In Christ is no sin. We have access INTO Christ by grace through faith to do what is impossible for the flesh.

God invites us into a heavenly walk...in His love, joy and peace. From there we do the will of God and are empowered in a walk over sin.

I don’t disagree. for example …put notes in to help ask my questions….
Matthew 5:43-48
You have heard that it hath been said, You shall love your neighbour, and hate your enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (I would say that not things a normal person can do?) 45] That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same? (Makes me think of your question…what more do you do than the publicans? But is that how you mean it, or something else?) 47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

See…at this point I’m wondering if that is what your talking about or something else…

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t disagree. for example …put notes in to help ask my questions….
Matthew 5:43-48
You have heard that it hath been said, You shall love your neighbour, and hate your enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; (I would say that not things a normal person can do?) 45] That you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if you love them which love you, what reward have you? do not even the publicans the same? (Makes me think of your question…what more do you do than the publicans? But is that how you mean it, or something else?) 47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more than others? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

See…at this point I’m wondering if that is what your talking about or something else…

You are using righteousness commands...whereby I'm speaking about holiness.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are using righteousness commands...whereby I'm speaking about holiness.

ok. I understand that to speak of the character and nature of God, same as the Son. Epi you are making my neck tense and I’m getting a headache. No my engaging in this is doing this to myself. You have mastered holiness. My head is scrambled. I hope you succeed.

 

[GTW27]

ok. I understand that to speak of the character and nature of God, same as the Son. Epi you are making my neck tense and I’m getting a headache. No my engaging in this is doing this to myself. You have mastered holiness. My head is scrambled. I hope you succeed.

Blessings VictoryinJesus. I read you words today and I commend you for standing firm in your beliefs." Let no man steal your joy."

 

[Christian Soldier]

True

In all ages (dispensations or whatever you want to call them) with the exception of the age of innocent (pre-fall) all men have been born dead. And the only means to be restored has been grace.

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accredited, imputed, accounted (whatever word you want to use) as righteous.

not because he was righteous, But because he had faith

Just a question regarding your last point, "because he had faith". Do you believe that faith was given to Abraham as a gift from God or do you believe he just had it within naturally. I ask this question because I think it's important to have the right understanding of why some have faith and others never find it.
Many Christian Denominations are divided over the question of how one is saved, there are two main opposing interpretations of the gospel. One teaches that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in Christ. The other one teaches that we are saved by believing the gospel and obeying it. These may sound similar but they are radically opposed to each other, over the question of are we elected to salvation by God or are we saved by making a free choice to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Abraham did believe in God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, but did Abrahams find the faith in himself or was it given to him by God?

 

[marks]

Just a question regarding your last point, "because he had faith". Do you believe that faith was given to Abraham as a gift from God or do you believe he just had it within naturally. I ask this question because I think it's important to have the right understanding of why some have faith and others never find it.
Many Christian Denominations are divided over the question of how one is saved, there are two main opposing interpretations of the gospel. One teaches that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in Christ. The other one teaches that we are saved by believing the gospel and obeying it. These may sound similar but they are radically opposed to each other, over the question of are we elected to salvation by God or are we saved by making a free choice to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Abraham did believe in God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, but did Abrahams find the faith in himself or was it given to him by God?

I think the simple answer is that we have the choice to either believe or not. Faith is given by God, we have to choose to obey His command to believe. Salvation is entirely by God's grace, through faith in Christ, having obeyed the command to believe. We make the choice, and He gives power for us to become His children, reborn through immersion into Christ, in His death, and burial, and resurrection.

In saying the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men (Titus 2), I take this to be saying everyone at least sometime sees God's grace that would bring them into salvation. "we urge you, be reconciled to God", He has already reconciled us all to Himself, now He, through His apostle, urges us to be reconciled to God. Paul refers to himself among those who "have received the reconciliation" (Romans 5:11).

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have a double speak filter going on. Either you believe in a higher walk in Christ without sin...or you don't.

About all I have is expose EPI syndrome that I have had for years

Do I believe we can have times where we are walking in love, Of course I do

do i think we can be perfect and have no sin. Well John said I would be deceived if I thought that. So I chose to listen to John, Not a self righteous cult leader.

By FAR the vast majority of those who have been promised life by pastors and institutions have no idea of any power other than what they can generate from themselves.

Here you go. Generate in themselves.

so You do not give God any credit. You want to take it all for yourself

Pastors and leaders have an obligation to point people to christ. Not to themselves.

Thats why no one should listen to you. You reject the power of God to save, let alone change lives. it’s all you changing yourself.

That's why you think walking in the Spirit is based on works...

No I do not. Again, Another slanderous false accusation from a self proclaimed righteous man of God. You are so easy to expose.. We do not even have to try, just let you speak, you will expose yourself.

because you haven't yet experienced any power from heaven to walk as Jesus walked.

Well you would not know that. Another assumption. You do not know me from adam or Eve.

But actually, I have experienced that power. Not only of his love, but of his trials and tribulations and his sufferings.

But you would not understand this, because you can;t get your eyes off yourself.

a strawman. You espouse trying to be Christian WITHOUT the supernatural grace to do so.

You don;t TRY to be a christian, Thats again where you fail

It all about you. Nothing about God.. One day you will repent. I just feel it in my veins..

You deny the power. No amount of good deeds can get you translated into the higher walk...only by the miraculous grace of God.

lol. I was translated into his family.

But as many as recieved him (I did this 40 years ago) to THEM gave he the right or power to become children of God.

Will you recieve Christ, or keep tryign to save yourself and taking others with you?

You have a mighty confusion going on.

Whatever

By what standard? By your own estimation? Because you read it in the bible? Where is God in that? Where is the reality?

Where is God in the Bible? And you are denying titus 3:5????

Oh Boy @Nancy not only is he focusing on self for his salvation, denying the forgiveness which comes from the cross. Now he is preaching God is not in the bible

God help us.

What does that mean? Alive in the Spirit? Walking as Jesus walked? Beyond just a religious slogan...what are you talking about? What can you do that a normal human can't?

What does it mean? Can you not read?

I was dead in tresspasses and sin.

I was made alive in christ.

It’s not rocket science. But I understand it does not commute to your works based gospel. There is not enough I in that passage to suit you.

Precisely the opposite. You are waiting to die for your purging.

Nope. My sins were purged 2000 years ago on the cross. God has removed my sin as far as the east is from the west.

And waiting to die to be free of sin.

Waiting for glorification, the redemption of my body?

Well of course. Paul did also.. You do not want to believe as paul?

1. Romans 8:23
   Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body

Oh wait, silly me, you do not believe God is in the Bible.. so you think your body, which God says is dead because of sin, is really dead.. You do not think you need ot be born again, i forgot.. its all about you

Waiting to die to enter into eternal life. Waiting to die to enter into the kingdom...and the eternal abiding place in Christ...etc

I have eternal life my friend. And because of it, As John said, I can continue to trust God. Because its not about me,

When you realise this fact of life. You may finally see Gods truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t disagree. But how someone interprets that goes off in many directions. You asked another member “what can you do that a normal human can’t?” I wish I knew what that means to you. Same question to you…what can you do that a normal human can’t? Can you give examples and not just broad statements that could mean anything. Because then …you could be saying you could go out to the ocean and take off your shoes and walk on the water. That’s something normal humans can’t do. I need examples of what you are saying.

What can I do as a normal human can’t

what kind of question is this? I would ask him , since he asked this question

One thing I can do is love, But not because I have the power to love, But because God first loved me.

but he does not understand this, he is to much in love with himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

ok. I understand that to speak of the character and nature of God, same as the Son. Epi you are making my neck tense and I’m getting a headache. No my engaging in this is doing this to myself. You have mastered holiness. My head is scrambled. I hope you succeed.

He has not mastered holiness, No one has but Christ.

Now Christ can and will set him apart and make him holy. But only if he repents. And stops tryign to work himself and let God work in and through him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just a question regarding your last point, "because he had faith". Do you believe that faith was given to Abraham as a gift from God or do you believe he just had it within naturally.

1. I believe Abraham Knew God
2. I believe abraham Learned in his lifetime that God was trustworthy.
3. Although he did not have a perfect faith (we know from all his sins) we know when God spoke to him, and made him make a decision, Abraham chose to trust God. Not because Abraham had some human strength or naturally had faith. No one has that kind of faith except int he things of this world. Those come naturally Faiht in God comes unnaturally. And it is only through Gods drawing, His teaching, and his exposing himself that we can even contemplate trusting him in things unseen.

But God can and does bring people to this kind of trusting faith.

He is willing that non should perish, but as Paul said in romans 1. Many people hide the truth of God in their hearts.. and will never come to God no matter how many times Gods trues to draw them to himself. I think the jews in the days of Jesus is proof of this

I ask this question because I think it's important to have the right understanding of why some have faith and others never find it.

Oh I understand

What it is not is that Godkeeps the truth from some people and never lets them understand, and opens the minds of others so they have no choice but to believe.

Double fatalism is not found in the word of God

Many Christian Denominations are divided over the question of how one is saved, there are two main opposing interpretations of the gospel. One teaches that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in Christ. The other one teaches that we are saved by believing the gospel and obeying it. These may sound similar but they are radically opposed to each other, over the question of are we elected to salvation by God or are we saved by making a free choice to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not see any different in these two gospels.

God gives us free will, He will nto force his salvation on you. Like abraham, there will come a time in your life where God will force you to make a decision. What you do at that time will most likely affect your eternity forever.

Abraham did believe in God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, but did Abrahams find the faith in himself or was it given to him by God?

He trusted that God was a trustworthy Creator.

This calvinistic nonsense is not from God. Forgive me, But it offends me to even think that doctrine gets any airtime.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I think the simple answer is that we have the choice to either believe or not. Faith is given by God, we have to choose to obey His command to believe. Salvation is entirely by God's grace, through faith in Christ, having obeyed the command to believe. We make the choice, and He gives power for us to become His children, reborn through immersion into Christ, in His death, and burial, and resurrection.

In saying the grace of God unto salvation has appeared to all men (Titus 2), I take this to be saying everyone at least sometime sees God's grace that would bring them into salvation. "we urge you, be reconciled to God", He has already reconciled us all to Himself, now He, through His apostle, urges us to be reconciled to God. Paul refers to himself among those who "have received the reconciliation" (Romans 5:11).

Much love!

All of that sounds reasonable and logical, but we have many scriptures which describe mankind as being born dead in trespasses and sins. And other scriptures saying that we cannot chose to believe the gospel or have faith in Jesus, unless God gives us the gift of faith first. The Bible says that God chose to save His elect before the world was created. If that's the case, then salvation is not by mans choice to believe and obey, but it's 100% Gods choice.

Ephesians 1:4
Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

There are around 40 more similar verses, which make it clear that God is the only One who decides who will be saved and who will be left in their sin. In Titus 2 we see the gospel being preached and not everyone believed it, only those who God elected for salvation responded with faith and they were born again.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man, in that verse must mean the man who has not been converted. He will always regard spiritual things as foolish, unless God regenerates him and quickens him to life.

 

[Episkopos]

About all I have is expose EPI syndrome that I have had for years

Do I believe we can have times where we are walking in love, Of course I do

do i think we can be perfect and have no sin. Well John said I would be deceived if I thought that. So I chose to listen to John, Not a self righteous cult leader.

Here you go. Generate in themselves.

so You do not give God any credit. You want to take it all for yourself

Pastors and leaders have an obligation to point people to christ. Not to themselves.

Thats why no one should listen to you. You reject the power of God to save, let alone change lives. it’s all you changing yourself.

No I do not. Again, Another slanderous false accusation from a self proclaimed righteous man of God. You are so easy to expose.. We do not even have to try, just let you speak, you will expose yourself.

Well you would not know that. Another assumption. You do not know me from adam or Eve.

But actually, I have experienced that power. Not only of his love, but of his trials and tribulations and his sufferings.

But you would not understand this, because you can;t get your eyes off yourself.

You don;t TRY to be a christian, Thats again where you fail

It all about you. Nothing about God.. One day you will repent. I just feel it in my veins..

lol. I was translated into his family.

But as many as recieved him (I did this 40 years ago) to THEM gave he the right or power to become children of God.

Will you recieve Christ, or keep tryign to save yourself and taking others with you?

Whatever

Where is God in the Bible? And you are denying titus 3:5????

Oh Boy @Nancy not only is he focusing on self for his salvation, denying the forgiveness which comes from the cross. Now he is preaching God is not in the bible

God help us.

What does it mean? Can you not read?

I was dead in tresspasses and sin.

I was made alive in christ.

It’s not rocket science. But I understand it does not commute to your works based gospel. There is not enough I in that passage to suit you.

Nope. My sins were purged 2000 years ago on the cross. God has removed my sin as far as the east is from the west.


Waiting for glorification, the redemption of my body?

Well of course. Paul did also.. You do not want to believe as paul?

1. Romans 8:23
   Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body

Oh wait, silly me, you do not believe God is in the Bible.. so you think your body, which God says is dead because of sin, is really dead.. You do not think you need ot be born again, i forgot.. its all about you


I have eternal life my friend. And because of it, As John said, I can continue to trust God. Because its not about me,

When you realise this fact of life. You may finally see Gods truth.

I make precise descriptions...and you respond with vagueness. "I have eternal life my friend" you say...no description, no testimony...just have to put my trust in you because you say so.

Everything you accuse me of you are actually doing...in reality. In the pretend world you have things right. So we have to trust you. In the pretend world that is.

What kind of person makes you have to trust them and just take their word for it. A cult leader? ?

I listen for an actual testimony that shows that a person is not deluded.

 

[Christian Soldier]

1. I believe Abraham Knew God
2. I believe abraham Learned in his lifetime that God was trustworthy.
3. Although he did not have a perfect faith (we know from all his sins) we know when God spoke to him, and made him make a decision, Abraham chose to trust God. Not because Abraham had some human strength or naturally had faith. No one has that kind of faith except int he things of this world. Those come naturally Faiht in God comes unnaturally. And it is only through Gods drawing, His teaching, and his exposing himself that we can even contemplate trusting him in things unseen.

But God can and does bring people to this kind of trusting faith.

He is willing that non should perish, but as Paul said in romans 1. Many people hide the truth of God in their hearts.. and will never come to God no matter how many times Gods trues to draw them to himself. I think the jews in the days of Jesus is proof of this


Oh I understand

What it is not is that Godkeeps the truth from some people and never lets them understand, and opens the minds of others so they have no choice but to believe.

Double fatalism is not found in the word of God

I do not see any different in these two gospels.

God gives us free will, He will nto force his salvation on you. Like abraham, there will come a time in your life where God will force you to make a decision. What you do at that time will most likely affect your eternity forever.



He trusted that God was a trustworthy Creator.

This calvinistic nonsense is not from God. Forgive me, But it offends me to even think that doctrine gets any airtime.

The Church has been divided over the two gospel interpretations for the past 500 years. The debate has been raging since the 16th century, and we are no closer to reaching a consensus today, then we were 500 years ago. It's a very difficult subject to debate, if the worlds greatest theologians and bible scholars can't find any common ground, I don't see how ordinary Church members will either.

So I won't try to convince you to agree with Reformed Theology, because I can see you firmly believe in Arminian theology. I found this table helpful, it's a list of all the dividing factors between the two gospel interpretations. You might find it interesting and I would like to know what you think of it.

http://heavenslight.org/wp-content/...vinism_and_Arminianism_TULIP_Chart_1_2007.pdf

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He has not mastered holiness, No one has but Christ.

Now Christ can and will set him apart and make him holy. But only if he repents. And stops tryign to work himself and let God work in and through him

I didn’t mean that comment in any other way but this…he thinks he has mastered holiness. If I understood correctly concerning God’s perfection …I took that as being said to be a righteous command lower than holiness. Which I don’t agree with.

I only meant since he is persuaded, I hope he can see it through. At the end of our debates and opinions over who is right and who is wrong, I think of: Acts 5:38-39 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it; lest haply you be found even to fight against God.

To me that says to not worry, regardless of who is right and who is wrong. The ending will declare if it’s of men because it will come to nothing. If it’s of God, nothing will overthrow it. Even with me…regardless if I’m what epi said. To me that says it will be revealed. I’m okay with that. It won’t be the first time I’ve seen the end of a road I’ve taken come to nothing.

I am hesitant to get too certain, and I hope I can help you understand why. 2 Peter 1:4-8
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. [5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Concerning the word holiness…when I see “godliness” in the above said “add unto you godliness” …I don’t know why that seems like something forbidden. Like don’t dare mention that as something added unto you. Does that make sense? Why does that word “godliness” same as “holiness” seem forbidden? No, I don’t think we add it unto us but God in “seek you first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.” Godliness is there As “Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises”

But I’m not going off on a tangent about righteousness and holiness of godliness…I’m just asking why do things which are precious promises in Christ feel so forbidden like they are somehow dirty to desire? …”perfection” is another one of those words.