The social gospel?

[Eternally Grateful]

An honest conversation goes like this

Person A (one of your people): I believe that the cross is about forgiveness.

Person B (Me)\: What do you do with all the people God forgave in the OT and those whom Jesus forgave in the NT before He died? And what about all the passages about the cross and holiness? Can you disregard these?

Person A: You are just a false teacher.

if this is what happened. You would have a point, but it’s not. So your point is useless. And just self righteous again.

You are your own worse enemy (except for your followers. Who seem glued to you and think you can do no wrong)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. People are claiming the promises of the Promised Land are already theirs while still in the wilderness walk or worse.

So we have not been given every spiritual blessing under heaven?

Or are you talking about the land in the Middle East. Which has never, and will never be ours.

or are you talking about the kingdom of God. Which we told is right here and right now. And we are a part of it.

Anybody can name and claim bible verses.

Yes, we see you do it every day

What we see is dishonesty in those who claim that the warnings of the bible are not for them. What's the difference with that and what the Pharisees did? Nada. They didn't admit they were stiff-necked just like their fathers were...did they? Of course not.

Yeah, so why do you not challenge yourself. You are a pharisee of pharisees. You think your righteous, and you think like them, you do not need saved. The cross is nothign to you.

You error is that you look inward rather than upward to heaven. A spiritual experience with yourself is not the same as being translated into the kingdom realm. FROM THAT POINT on the "Christ in you"...that fills you with rivers of living water, to walk as Jesus walked without any sin...that is the hope of glory. But even then, it is just a hope of glory. One has to maintain faithfulness to inherit the promise.

Dude, If anyone here looks inward it is you. Get off your high horse. You’re one of the most self righteous, Inner thinking pointing to self. Not God man I have met on the internet.

There is a popular error circulating in the churches now...that Jesus was always there within you...you are just discovering Him when you do. He was ALWAYS there... Kumbaya.

Have literally no idea what this means or what your getting at

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have no idea about me. Only that I've disagreed with your doctrine, so you respond the way you choose to.

Much love!

Seems to be there modus operendi. If you agree with them, your fine, if you disagree even the slightest, the monster is unleashed against you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Any bible expositor will say that the word aphesis is sometimes used to mean "forgiveness" because the translators twisted the meaning into popularity so long ago that it is now a part of the religious sub-culture. But learn what the words really mean.


It's the same thing for the modern word "bad". When something is "bad" it means it is not good. But today "bad" can also mean "awesome", "cool" and "great" . That's the lack of depth of your understanding showing here. The same thing applies for bad translations that have become institutional. Like the word " impute". Again...this means to attribute (something real). But the dictionaries say that from a religious perspective it means that something is not real.

The word for impute in modern Hebrew is now used for "accountant". In your view that would be a criminal accountant. But God is not a criminal. He judges in righteousness. So that means if God imputes something to someone, it is real not imagined.

And the list continues in both HUGE errors and also lesser ones.

Otherwise, I like the KJV. :)

Thats what I like about the logos bible system, access to so many resources,

ἄφεσις aphesis pardon; forgiveness
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament
Louw-Nida release, liberty
An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon a letting go; dismissal; a quittance; discharge; exemption; a divorce
LXGRCANLEX pardon; forgiveness; pardon; release; forgiveness; pardon
Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words
TLNT a sending out, point of departure, discharge, settlement, forgiveness, dispensation, acquittal, liberation
The Lexham Analytical Lexicon of the Septuagint letting go; dismissal; יוֹבֵל; ram; year of remission; jubilee year; דְּרוֹר 3; release (of slaves); שְׁמִטָּה
DBL Greek pardon; liberty
BDAG release; pardon, cancellation
M-M release; channel; sluice; release
NASB Dictionaries dismissal; release; pardon
LEH LXX Lexicon channel; issue; remission, the act of sending away; release of captivity; cancellation; letting go, release
The New Strong’s Dictionary of Hebrew and Greek Words freedom; pardon
Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon
A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible freedom; pardon; deliverance; forgiveness; liberty; remission

So we can see, when we look into the greek. The word speaks of forgiveness, or a pardon, or a sending away or release of that which binds, a cancellation.

But your legalistic mindset will not allow this, because it destroys your belief system, Like many, You force the Bible to fit your belief system, not force your belief system to fit the bible

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So true!

And without the faith that we've been set free from sin, delivered from both it's power and it's penalty, we will not have the faith to walk in that.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Here, the very same faith that saves us gives us access to the grace in which we stand.

This is why the message that unless see yourself as consistently and fully holy, then you are not "in Christ", is actually a faith killer, not edifying. And even so seeing yourself as completely holy is a self-deception, since we are not qualified to make that call.

1 Corinthians 4:4-5 KJV
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Much love!

I like what John wrote

I write these thing to you so you can KNOW YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and you can CONTINUE TO BELIEVE

Our ability or power to believe is our knowledge of hope. That we have eternal life.

there is no hope if we are tryign to earn eternal life, or it may be lost. Our focus must continue to be self ward, not Godward. Because we always have to worry, are we doing enough to make it? And redirect our actions.

instead of focusing on God. And when we fall. Get back up. Wipe the dust off. And move forward..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Again, you are confusing peace with God for your own idea of peace. The chastisement of OUR PEACE was upon Him....and still grieves the Spirit. Our idea of peace destroys the truth. Crying peace, peace, when there is no peace.

Well thats what your preaching, there can be no peace in your gospel. Only in Christ can there be peace. Why? Because the things that causes war (sin) was taken care of.. Sin can not condemn us anymore. Otherwise, there can be no peace. Because we still chose self over Gods far to many times.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not to be confused with the KJB :cool:

He speaks!!! (Or is it a she???)

 

[Johann]

Our focus must continue to be self ward, not Godward.

Explain this @Eternally Grateful I believe it's the other way around.

Corrected Statement with Appropriate Scriptures
Our focus must continue to be Godward, not self-ward.

Matthew 6:33
Scripture: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of prioritizing God's kingdom and righteousness above all personal concerns.

Colossians 3:2
Scripture: "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."
Explanation: Paul encourages believers to focus on heavenly things rather than worldly, self-centered concerns.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Scripture: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
Explanation: This passage highlights the need to rely on God rather than on oneself, submitting to His guidance in all aspects of life.

Hebrews 12:2
Scripture: "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith."
Explanation: Believers are encouraged to focus on Jesus Christ as the model and source of faith, rather than on their own efforts or desires.

Philippians 4:6-7
Scripture: "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Explanation: This passage emphasizes the importance of turning to God in prayer rather than being preoccupied with self-concerns.
These scriptures collectively underscore the biblical principle that our focus should be on God, His kingdom, and His righteousness, rather than on ourselves and our own understanding.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

For those who love religious commentary based on opinions of people who have no understanding of spiritual things...yet are trying to be objective...

You mean those who listen to you????

"I have listed the seventeen biblical occurrences of αφεσις recorded in Young’s Concordance and have tabulated the translation of the word in six different versions, namely The Wycliffe (1388), The Vulgate (1592), Tyndale (1534), the AV (1611), Young’s Literal (1864), The Bagster Interlinear (1887) and J N Darby (1884).

[* See below for PDF location.]

Largely, it is translated ‘remission’ or ‘forgiveness’ but in Luke 4:18, in which Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61: 1-2, translators have chosen, I would say, not to define the word as it will be used in transition from Hebrew prophecy into New Testament reality, but have preferred to translate two Hebrew concepts (by ‘deliverance’ and ‘liberty’) as a Greek quotation of the prophet’s words.

The Septuagint, notably, uses αφεσις in relation to αἰχμαλώτοις in Isaiah 61:1, as does Luke in 4:18.

Scripture uses αφεσις in all seventeen places and Jerome uses ‘remissionem/remissio’ throughout the Vulgate but English translators have chosen to, sometimes, use ‘forgive’ which copies the Dutch vergeven and/or the German vergeben (OED) and the meaning ‘stop feeling angry’ (OED), in my own view, neither expresses the Hebrew concepts of Isaiah 61: 1,2 nor the meaning of αφεσις in Greek.

‘Forgiveness’ appears only once in The Wycliffe, perhaps indicating that by 1388, it had not, yet, become as much used as the word ‘remission’.

My edition of Liddel & Scott is the one thousand page 1854 American volume in which it is suggested that the derivation of αφεσις is απο-ιημι. But Strong cites the derivation of αφεσις (859) as αφιεμι (863). And there is a possibility that it is from α-φερο, although Liddel & Scott, whilst being abundant in cataloguing φερο - devoting a whole page to it and giving it a variety of meanings which, generally, suggest the conveying or carrying of something adverse or burdensome - do not list αφερο at all.

It may be that απο-ιημι underlies αφιεμι , which in turn underlies αφεσις. And in the background is the word φερο; which adds meaning without being a direct derivative. But it is also possible that αφιεμι is a direct negative of φεμι, in which case αφεσις is a matter [Young and L&S] of ‘un-saying’ something, thus releasing an obligation. Which would be very close to, and an enhancement of, the meaning of αφερο, ‘unburden’, if such a word ever existed.

Liddel & Scott make it clear that the usage of αφεσις in non-biblical literature is, sometimes, a matter of release, both of horses from a starting post and of waters from a sluice gate. The result of αφεσις, therefore, appears to be - in those particular usages - a gushing out, a pouring out, a rushing forth.

The fact that Luke uses αφεσις, twice, to convey two slightly different concepts in the Isaiah quotation, agrees with the idea that αφεσις is a broad concept which encompasses other, subsidiary meanings.

So my Question is - what English word can be used to convey, consistently, the word αφεσις ? for ‘remission’ refers to things, not persons, and Luke 4:18 makes it very clear that, although (twelve times, listed by Young) the expression ‘the aphesis of hamartia’ is stated in the bible, nevertheless the effect of αφεσις is upon persons.

Does the ‘un-saying’ of sins then ‘unburden’ the recipient; and thus αφεσις, with its varied heritage, expresses both concepts within one word ? And what word in English would do such a thing ?

If no word can be suggested, then I would be minded, in the future, to transliterate the Greek and thereafter use ‘aphesis’, without italics, as an English word; and to simply bear in mind the wealth of association that is clustered around it."

In conclusion...well with people's opinions there is never an accurate conclusion.

Its ok,

I posted all the major greek english sources. And there are more which all show the same thing,

I think I will go with what the word says, Not what someone trying to make his belief system appear true

 

[Ritajanice]

List of Bible Verses About Focusing on God​

Matthew 6:33 ​

“But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”

Isaiah 26:3 ​

“You keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on you because he trusts in you.”

Psalm 62:1 ​

“For God alone, my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation.”

Colossians 3:2​

“Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.”

Philippians 4:8 ​

“Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.”

Psalm 143:8 ​

“Let me hear in the morning of your steadfast love, for in you I trust. Make me know the way I should go, for to you I lift up my soul.”

Proverbs 4:25-27 ​

“Let your eyes look directly forward, and your gaze be straight before you. Ponder the path of your feet; then all your ways will be sure. Do not swerve to the right or to the left; turn your foot away from evil.”

Psalm 25:5 ​

“Lead me in your truth and teach me, for you are the God of my salvation; for you, I wait all day long.”

Psalm 119:105 ​

“Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path.”

 

[Ritajanice]

Life and peace in the “ SPIRIT “...

◄ Romans 8:6 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. New Living Translation So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to death. But letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace. English Standard Version For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. Berean Standard Bible The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, Berean Literal Bible For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit, life and peace, King James Bible For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded islife and peace

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Explain this @Eternally Grateful I believe it's the other way around.

Corrected Statement with Appropriate Scriptures
Our focus must continue to be Godward, not self-ward.

Matthew 6:33
Scripture: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of prioritizing God's kingdom and righteousness above all personal concerns.

Colossians 3:2
Scripture: "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."
Explanation: Paul encourages believers to focus on heavenly things rather than worldly, self-centered concerns.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Scripture: "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
Explanation: This passage highlights the need to rely on God rather than on oneself, submitting to His guidance in all aspects of life.

Hebrews 12:2
Scripture: "Fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith."
Explanation: Believers are encouraged to focus on Jesus Christ as the model and source of faith, rather than on their own efforts or desires.

Philippians 4:6-7
Scripture: "Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Explanation: This passage emphasizes the importance of turning to God in prayer rather than being preoccupied with self-concerns.
These scriptures collectively underscore the biblical principle that our focus should be on God, His kingdom, and His righteousness, rather than on ourselves and our own understanding.

Read what I said bro

I said if we are trying to earn our way to heaven. Our focu must be inward

That’s why people like epi like to boast. They have to. It’s what their faith is in

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Got to love it when people laugh and make fun of actual interpretations of words.

But when you think you know it all. I guess you have to boast too. Again pointing to self not God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not if works lest anyone should boast

You can tell a false teacher by who they point to. Now while many claim they point to God. If you listen closely you will see point blank. They are pointing to self. I think they say God just to make it appear they look to God. When in reality it’s all about self and how good or holy they think they are.

 

[Lizbeth]

No.

ok, so what then is the "much" that was given to us, that a corresponding much is required? How can we render much if we haven't been given much? What does it mean to have Christ in us? What does it mean that our new man has been created in His image? Is there any flaw or lack or shortcoming in Christ?

Even so............we know that not everyone is given the same measure of grace/faith in the beginning according to the parable of the talents, and principles of spiritual gifts (some greater, some lesser – even though still many who are last will be first, etc.) Regarding the early church, bible says that GREAT grace was upon them all. Has the church seen GREAT grace today? Only at divers times and in divers places it seems. There are things to consider with these things, and implications.

People are claiming the promises of the Promised Land are already theirs while still in the wilderness walk or worse.

What does it mean that the promises are "yes and amen"? Doesn't God call those things which be not as though they are? It's because Abraham believed God's promises even while his body was as good as dead that righteousness was credited to him. Isn’t faith the substance of things hoped for and evidence of things not yet seen? (until they are seen) And blessed are you who have not seen, yet believe.

God forbid that anyone should seek to undermine and shipwreck the FAITH of God’s children! Are there any warnings in scripture about that?

Anybody can name and claim bible verses. What we see is dishonesty in those who claim that the warnings of the bible are not for them. What's the difference with that and what the Pharisees did? Nada. They didn't admit they were stiff-necked just like their fathers were...did they? Of course not.

The difference is whether it is of genuine faith or not.....the "naming/claiming" crowd are mostly not being in faith when they "claim".....they are not in spirit.....and not being led by Him either because His will is a factor....we are to pray according to His will.....and Jesus only did what He saw the Father doing.

And there is a difference between running the race so as to win it as opposed to a nominal token effort or running lawlessly. Yes there are warnings.....it is possible to be disqualified. We sure do need to be honest and accountable for where or how we still fall short of the mark...that is the only way to make progress in the race, and part of running it so as to win. It's a cross country race with obstacles and hurdles, not a 100 yard dash....so we need endurance and patience/perseverance and to overcome things along the way...as the bible does speak of all that.

You error is that you look inward rather than upward to heaven. A spiritual experience with yourself is not the same as being translated into the kingdom realm. FROM THAT POINT on the "Christ in you"...that fills you with rivers of living water, to walk as Jesus walked without any sin...that is the hope of glory. But even then, it is just a hope of glory. One has to maintain faithfulness to inherit the promise.

How would you know where I look? That is another false assumption and accusation. God is everywhere, he is both in us and "outside" of us at the same time. I pray to God ABOVE, not to myself. Ew, what a horrible thought that you are accusing.....shouldn't you wash your mouth out with soap? People need to be more mindful of how they just "like" your posts without thinking.

Think it's obvious that most of us are not "perfect" yet. Agree we must be faithful to inherit. And even Paul speaking to the "perfect" said they must be of the same mind as he and not consider that they had yet attained, for the simple reason that the race isn't over til it's over. Take heed who thinks he stands lest he fall.

There is a popular error circulating in the churches now...that Jesus was always there within you...you are just discovering Him when you do. He was ALWAYS there... Kumbaya.

What does that have to do with this conversation? I sure do not agree with it, God forbid....it's new age. I see you are poking fun at my use of the word "kumbya"....I take it you don't agree with how I use it then. Are you of the interfaith "let's just all get along and take the offence out of the cross" persuasion?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I’ve had so many let downs in life and was brought up being made to feel inferior to men......I’ve been brought to not only realise in my head and especially in my spirit, that God will never let me down...he’s not like earthly men.....he is Spirit and almighty God....I am / we are his spirit children who wants the best for his children.

I’m so glad you shared this because first of all I can relate. It also stood out to me because now I have a better perspective on how you must feel when men surround you and start bopping you in the head telling you that you are somehow lesser to them in what is known of God. No wonder you come out swinging. You may say …no no sister it doesn’t matter to me. I’m telling you I can relate. I’ll share something with you. There has been a few times when I stated crying and yelling at my husband that in some ways …I think I read the word to prove to him if I’m good enough for God, maybe I’ll impress my husband. Like finally …among men I’ll have some value! Some worth! Surely if I’m one of God’s children yea? I’ve been in conversations were it’s going back and forth and I want to say something in real life …something important to me about God’s word but the men are all bouncing their ideas back and forth so loudly I can’t get a single word in. I seriously sometimes will raise my hand…or say “can I say something” and it gets talked over in the heated discussion until finally a lot of times I get up and walk out off …most of the time thinking and pouting. It hurts. Maybe that is all my own soul wounds. But I just want you to know I’m not condemning you. I see you near the last pages of the thread posting and the conversation is moving on around you like I’ve experienced before. It’s like being elbowed out. Or rooted out. I so get why you come out swinging religiously to say “God loves me guys!” And He does. I do think sometimes I use God to prove my value. But I also know like I think you keep expressing that God loves not based off of how smart or wordy or even if your the most accepted speaker in the room.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos .....You can't "DO" any "Righteousness" under the Law, as its the law that defined you as a SINNER, as "none are righteous"., because "ALL have sinned".

You are not understanding righteousness. Look what Paul says about himself before knowing Christ....

as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. Phil. 3:6

Found blameless? You say you understand Paul...but not anyone else. But you are mistaken even in that. You have literally no idea about the gospel....lowering its standard so that anybody can claim the most outrageous things in lawlessness.

And look what Luke says about the law...

And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. Luke 1:6

There's that word blameless again. Does that line up with your assessment about the righteous following the law?

And what about Peter...who you don't listen to...because he's in the bible.

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Acts 10:35

Why doesn't it say that God condemns those who fear Him and work righteousness?


There are many other instances that prove you wrong...but I don't know how your reading skills are this early in the morning! ;)

Your "trying to be righteous"...

You are always wrong. Why is that? I never said that I'm trying to be righteous...that's your own concoction based on that mean spirit of yours. You don't need to be kind, I know, because Jesus already paid for all your meanness.

theology is not based any understanding regarding why Jesus died on the Cross, so that God can give the BELIEVER..

"The Gift of Salvation"
"The Gift of Righteousness"
"The Gift of Eternal Life".

Try to understand that the Born again, are to do "good works", because they are "made righteous", always., because they have received "the Gift of Righteousness".

Total confusion...like a ball of twine that has no end.

 

[Behold]

You are not understanding righteousness.

God's righteousness is Jesus.

John 14:6

Otherwise...If your silly and redundant self effort gospel of self righteousness, can measure up to HIM..... as you believe in yourself to be able to do it, then just have thine own way, @Episkopos

 

[Behold]

Found blameless? Y

The reason the Born again Believer is "found blameless" is because they are "made righteous" "IN Christ".

See, when a person becomes A CHRISTian, they have been given "The Gift of Righteousness", by God.

Welcome to : SALVATiON

Its a "GIFT"..

This Gift is not a process, its to have become a "New Creation" as "ONE with God"... having become .. ."THE.... Righteousness of God in Christ".

This is the : "Son-Daughter" of God.....(Born....again).

 

[mailmandan]

God's righteousness is Jesus.

John 14:6

Otherwise...If your silly self effort gospel of self righteousness, can measure up to HIM..... as you believe in yourself to be able to do it, then just have thine own way, @Episkopos

That self righteous, holier than thou gospel is not the gospel of Christ, which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes. (Romans 1:16) Rather than promoting Christ, certain folks instead prefer to exploit the gospel and Christ in order to promote themselves.