The six things of Daniel 9:24

[Douggg]

The calling of the Jew, as the calling of the Gentile, is to repent and believe in Jesus Christ and join the church of Jew and Gentile, male and female, bond and free, where there is no difference, and as many as walk according to this rule, peace be upon them and mercy!" For they are the [Christian] Israel of God! Galatians 3:26-29

Galatians 3:26-29 does not contain the phrase "Israel of God".

And you are making up you own verse taking bits and pieces out of context.

In the context of Galatians 6, Paul was countering the requirement of circumcision that some Jewish Christians were trying to impose on Gentile Christians. The Jewish Christians that did not try to impose circumcision, Paul called them "the Israel of God".

The rule being talked about in verse 16 is that in Christ neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision, makes any difference, verse 15. That's the rule. So the Jewish Christians who were not trying to impose circumcision, Paul called "the Israel of God" in verse 16.

Galations 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[covenantee]

Galatians 3:26-29 does not contain the phrase "Israel of God".

And you are making up you own verse taking bits and pieces out of context.

In the context of Galatians 6, Paul was countering the requirement of circumcision that some Jewish Christians were trying to impose on Gentile Christians. The Jewish Christians that did not try to impose circumcision, Paul call them "the Israel of God".

The rule being talked about in verse 16 is that in Christ neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision, makes any difference, verse 15. That's the rule. So the Jewish Christians who were not trying to impose circumcision, Paul called "the Israel of God" in verse 16.

Galations 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Paul is addressing the Galatian church, comprised of both Jewish (the circumcision) Christians, and Gentile (the uncircumcision) Christians. He does not consider the former to be of greater distinction or significance than the latter. Thus:
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj

c. it joins to partitive words the general notion; so that it is equivalent to and in general, and in a word, in short: ὁ Πέτρος καί οἱ ἀπόστολοι, Acts 5:29; οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς (καί οἱ πρεσβύτεροι Rec.) καί τό συνέδριον ὅλον, Matthew 26:59; καί δικαιώμασι σαρκός, Hebrews 9:10 Rec. Tr brackets WH marginal reading; καί ἐπί τόν Ἰσραήλ τοῦ Θεοῦ, Galatians 6:16

Thus:
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, in short, upon the Israel of God.

There is neither Jew nor Greek (Galatians 3:28) in the Israel of God.

 

[christsavedme]

There are six things in Daniel 9:24 that are to be completed during the 70 weeks determined upon Daniel's people and upon the holy city of Jerusalem.

What is your explanation for each of the six things ?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. ...

1. to finish the transgression

2. to make an end of sins

3. to make reconciliation for iniquity

4. to bring in everlasting righteousness

5. to seal up the vision and prophecy,

6. to anoint the most Holy.

What a powerful and profound passage in Daniel 9:24! I see these six tasks as a roadmap to redemption and restoration, not just for Israel, but for humanity as a whole. Let's break them down:

1. To finish the transgression: This speaks to the ultimate defeat of sin and rebellion against God. It's a promise that one day, the cycle of sin and suffering will be broken, and we'll be free from the weight of our own self-destructive tendencies.

2. To make an end of sins: This is the culmination of the first task. When sin is finally defeated, we'll experience a new era of freedom from the grip of guilt, shame, and addiction. No more will sin hold us hostage!

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity: This is the heart of the Gospel! Through Jesus' sacrifice, our sins are not only forgiven but also reconciled. We're brought back into right relationship with God, and our conscience is cleansed from the stain of sin.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness: This is the ultimate goal – to live in a state of perpetual righteousness, where love, justice, and mercy reign supreme. We'll be transformed from the inside out, reflecting God's perfect character.

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy: This task speaks to the completion of God's plan, where all prophecies and visions are fulfilled. We'll finally understand the mysteries of the ages, and the puzzle pieces of history will fall into place.

6. To anoint the most Holy: This final task is the crowning glory – the anointing of Jesus Christ as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. All of history culminates in the coronation of our Savior, and we'll join in the eternal worship of the One who has redeemed us.

In these six tasks, we see the grand narrative of redemption unfolding. As a Christian psychologist, I'm reminded that our personal struggles and triumphs are part of a much larger story, one that ultimately leads to the triumph of God's love and redemption. What a glorious hope we have in Christ!

 

[Keraz]

Galatians 3:26-29 does not contain the phrase "Israel of God".

And you are making up you own verse taking bits and pieces out of context.

In the context of Galatians 6, Paul was countering the requirement of circumcision that some Jewish Christians were trying to impose on Gentile Christians. The Jewish Christians that did not try to impose circumcision, Paul call them "the Israel of God".

The rule being talked about in verse 16 is that in Christ neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision, makes any difference, verse 15. That's the rule. So the Jewish Christians who were not trying to impose circumcision, Paul called "the Israel of God" in verse 16.

Galations 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

So then; you seem to promote a separation between Jewish Christians and gentile Christians. This is totally contrary to what Jesus taught,
I know the reason you must have the Jews as a separate Christian people, because you have the entirely false idea of a general Jewish redemption, to happen when Jesus Returns, after they are punished by the Great Tribulation.
Added to that is the downright crazy belief of the gentile Christinas being 'raptured to heaven before the G.T. starts.

Of course, nothing anyone can say will convince you of your errors, because the Lord has put a compelling delusion upon all who choose to believe false teachings.

 

[Douggg]

So then; you seem to promote a separation between Jewish Christians and gentile Christians.

No, I don't promote a sepration between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.

I am explaining that the "Israel of God" is not referring to a combined nation of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.

In Galatians 6:12-15, Paul was saying that many (Jewish Christians) were pushing circumcision onto Gentile Christians, thinking that is what Jesus wanted, and that they were doing what Jesus wanted.

In verse 14, Paul said no, it was not what Jesus wanted. That what counts is what Jesus did on the cross.

Galatians 612 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[IndianaRob]

No, I don't.

I am explaining that the "Israel of God" is not referring to a combined nation of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians.

In Galatians 6:12-15, Paul was saying that many (Jewish Christians) were pushing circumcision onto Gentile Christians, thinking that is what Jesus wanted, and that they were doing what Jesus wanted.

In verse 14, Paul said no, it was not what Jesus wanted. That what counts is what Jesus did on the cross.

Galatians 612 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Do you think we as gentile Christian’s are the Israel of God?

 

[Douggg]

Thus:
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, in short, upon the Israel of God.

That translation is different from the kjv, and most other translations.

Bible Hub lists presents these translations of that verse...

Galatians 6:16 Parallel: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

What translation did you copy and paste from ?

 

[Douggg]

Do you think we as gentile Christian’s are the Israel of God?

No.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, it does not say in the text "in the 70th week" messiah shall be cutoff.

What is the vision - in Daniel 9:21,22,23, 24 ?

The prince that shall come shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.

What comes after 69, Douggg? Pretty sure it's 70. It says the Messiah would be cut off AFTER the end of the 69th week. If you don't have His death within any of the 70 weeks then you can't say that His death was required to fulfill any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 that had to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That translation is different from the kjv, and most other translations.

Bible Hub lists presents these translations of that verse...

Galatians 6:16 Parallel: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

What translation did you copy and paste from ?

Even the KJV translation of Galatians 6:15-16 isn't saying what you think it says.

Revelation 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

Using the logic you use to interpret Galatians 6:16, we would have to conclude that the verse above is referring to two different sets of people, with "ye his servants" being one and "ye that fear him" being another. Is that how you interpret this verse, Douggg? Clearly, those who fear Him are His servants, so this is not referring to two different groups, but rather is describing the same group in two different ways. That is how Galatians 6:15-16 should be understood as well. Paul indicated that those who walk according to the rule which says what matters is being made a new creation in Christ rather than whether one is a Jew (circumcised) or a Gentile (not circumcised) are the Israel of God.

You can see in Romans 9:6-8 that there are two different Israels. Not all who are physically descended from Abraham and the nation of Israel are the spiritual Israel of God which is made up of those who are the spiritual children of Abraham and of God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

In John 12:12-15, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, riding a donkey, hailed as he King of Israel. 69 weeks unto messiah.

Four days later was crucified. After 62 weeks (plus 7 weeks) was cutoff.

Then a break following the messiah cutoff - as the city and sanctuary are destroyed. By the people of the prince that shall come, i.e. the Romans. 70 AD.

The 70th week does not begin until the prince that shall come confirms the covenant for 7 years. That prince will be the little horn person.

How do you have Christ's death fulfilling anything in Daniel 9:24 if you don't even place it within any of the 70 weeks? That makes no sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please consider the following...

Daniel 9:24 outlines six key objectives that the Messiah would accomplish, and the order in which they are listed follows a logical progression.

I completely disagree. There is no indication of this whatsoever in the text.

First, the Messiah is said to "finish transgression," which means addressing humanity's rebellion against God. Next, He will "make an end of sins," or, breaking the power that sin has over people. After that, He will "make reconciliation for iniquity," He can notw restore the relationship between God and humanity. With sin dealt with and reconciliation achieved, the Messiah will then "bring in everlasting righteousness," establishing a new, righteous order that will last forever. God cannot be in the presence of sin.

When do you see everlasting righteousness being brought in exactly?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The majority of the Jews have not.

So what? The prophecy has nothing to do with the majority of the Jews believing in Christ. It has to do with salvation and the forgiveness of sins being made possible for them.

The 70 years that the Jews would be in Babylonian captivity was because of their getting into idol worship which was "the" transgression in Daniel 9:24.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The Jews themselves cannot fulfill any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. That is absolutely ridiculous. Only Jesus can and He did. "It is finished".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, Christ DID go to the Cross "on that day" and He did put an end to sins. And this applies to the Saints in the Old Testament. The living water was not strictly only to the New Testament period after the Cross. As it is written:

Zec 14:8-9
(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

From the Cross, the Holy Spirit (the Living Water) went back to the former sea (Old Testament Saints) and the hinder sea (the New Testament Saints). In that day, Christ has established His Kingdom.

Yes, of course it applies to OT saints as well. Never said otherwise.

 

[Douggg]

What comes after 69, Douggg? Pretty sure it's 70. It says the Messiah would be cut off AFTER the end of the 69th week. If you don't have His death within any of the 70 weeks then you can't say that His death was required to fulfill any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 that had to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, riding the donkey, hailed as the King of Israel that comes in the name of the Lord, in John 12:12-15. 4 days later, He was crucified.

69 weeks x 7 years = 483 years x 360 days/year = 173,880 days
1 week x 7 years = 7 years x 360 days/year = 2520 days

The 4 days is negligible.

The 70th week is still unfulfilled as the vision in Daniel 9:24 to be fulfilled is that of the time of the end 2300 days activities of the little horn person - requiring the 2520 days of the 7 year 70th week to fit into.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, riding the donkey, hailed as the King of Israel that comes in the name of the Lord, in John 12:12-15. 4 days later, He was crucified.

69 weeks x 7 years = 483 years x 360 days/year = 173,880 days
1 week x 7 years = 7 years x 360 days/year = 2520 days

The 4 days is negligible.

LOL. What utter nonsense. That's some fuzzy math. You're always making scripture say what you want it to say. Your dishonest treatment and lack of reverence for holy scripture is disgusting. After means after. What comes after 69? 70. That places His death within the 70th week whether it was 4 days after or however much time it was AFTER the end of the 69th week. Did you not say that making an end of sins was accomplished by His death on the cross? How can you not have His death within any of the 70 weeks when Daniel 9:24 could not be fulfilled without His death?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Galatians 3:26-29 does not contain the phrase "Israel of God".

And you are making up you own verse taking bits and pieces out of context.

In the context of Galatians 6, Paul was countering the requirement of circumcision that some Jewish Christians were trying to impose on Gentile Christians. The Jewish Christians that did not try to impose circumcision, Paul called them "the Israel of God".

The rule being talked about in verse 16 is that in Christ neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision, makes any difference, verse 15. That's the rule. So the Jewish Christians who were not trying to impose circumcision, Paul called "the Israel of God" in verse 16.

Galations 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

So, you make a distinction between "the Israel of God" and the nation of Israel, right? But, in your view, the Israel of God is comprised of Jewish Christians. Why do you completely ignore the fact that the blood of Christ brought Jew and Gentile Christians together as one (Ephesians 2:11-3:6)? Why do you separate what Christ brought together as one? That is evil and unacceptable.

You are not taking Galatians 6:15-16 in context at all. In verse 15 Paul is saying neither circumcision (associated with Jews) nor uncircumcision (associated with Gentiles means anything, but you make it mean something by saying that in order to be part of the Israel of God one has to be a Jew! That completely contradicts the context of what Paul was saying! He said what matters is being a new creation in Christ and he referred to those who walk according to the rule of being a new creation in Christ, regardless of whether someone is a Jew or Gentile, the Israel of God.

He indicated that being part of the spiritual Israel of God is not based on anything physical, but you make it that way! No, he indicated that the Israel of God is made up of those who have been made a new creation in Christ regardless of whether they are Jew or Gentile. That lines up with what he said in passages like Galatians 3:26-29 where he said "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" and we are all one in Christ Jesus. Paul referring to all believers as being part of the Israel of God lines up with him having previously said "if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:29). You are the one taking scripture out of context. You do not accept Paul's teachings.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are six things in Daniel 9:24 that are to be completed during the 70 weeks determined upon Daniel's people and upon the holy city of Jerusalem.

What is your explanation for each of the six things ?

1st thing you have to do is determine WHO do these 6 things belong to. Who is the prophecy about. is it about everyone. or just a group?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

so we establish that the 6 things concerns Daniels people. and Daniels Holy City

Now we could assume we know who this is. But I think sometimes it is best to just go to context and see if we see who these people are. and we do. In Daniels prayer (remember, this is Gods answer to Daniel's prayer) So who is he praying for?

6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.

8 “O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. 10 We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. 11 Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. 12 And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
13 “As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us;

so with careful study, what do we see?

1. The city is set, it is Jerusalem. Jerusalem, which lay desolate.
2. The people I think is clear also. As you can see Highlighted. they are The men of Judah, The inhabitants of Jerusalem, To those near and far of in other countries where God drove them because of their sins and transgressions. To the kings and princes, to the father , To ALL Israel. To those who were being punished according to the law of Moses.
3. to study further, we can look to the law of moses. Why were they being punished for their sins and transgressions? We find this in Lev 26: 27 ‘And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me, 28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you. 31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your [h]sweet aromas. 32 I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste.
4. Without doubt, Daniel's people and Holy City is the whole nation of Israel. who were being punished for her sins and transgressions.


so know we know the who. now we answer the what

to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. ...

1. to finish the transgression

To finish her transgressions of following foreign Gods and worshiping her idols

2. to make an end of sins

To stop her sins against God

3. to make reconciliation for iniquity

God would make reconciliation for her sins, and when she repents (as required by the law of moses in Lev 26 concerning this prayer of daniel) she will be reconciled

4. to bring in everlasting righteousness

They will not sin her sins anymore

5. to seal up the vision and prophecy,

Vision concerning the nation of Israel will be completed. Nothing else concerning here will be left unfinished

6. to anoint the most Holy.

Jesus will be anointed king on Davids throne at the end of the 70th week. and rule the world from Davids house (the temple)


by the way, Scripture says all these things will happen.

Ez 37:
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
24 “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever;

Ez 11: 7 Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.” ’ 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within [e]them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God

Ez 39: 21 “I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them. 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. 23 The Gentiles shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity; because they were unfaithful to Me, therefore I hid My face from them. I gave them into the hand of their enemies, and they all fell by the sword. 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them.” ’

25 “Therefore thus says the Lord God: ‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name— 26 after they have borne their shame, and all their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, when they dwelt safely in their own land and no one made them afraid. 27 When I have brought them back from the peoples and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and I am hallowed in them in the sight of many nations, 28 then they shall know that I am the Lord their God, who sent them into captivity among the nations, but also brought them back to their land, and left none of them [k]captive any longer. 29 And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord God.”


I can go on and on and on, But hopefully people get the picture

 

[CTK]

I completely disagree. There is no indication of this whatsoever in the text.


When do you see everlasting righteousness being brought in exactly?

Are you saying that Jesus did not fulfill these 6 elements mentioned in 9:24? They were listed in the prophecy... if He did not fulfill them, why are they listed that He would ... or, are you suggesting they have yet to be fulfilled --- He will fulfill them at His second coming?

Did He fulfill any one of them at His first coming?

Does it not say that 70 weeks.... for your people and your holy city to .....(finish / make an end / reconcile / bring in / seal up / anoint....Which of these did Jesus not complete and why?

 

[CTK]

I completely disagree. There is no indication of this whatsoever in the text.


When do you see everlasting righteousness being brought in exactly?

Why do you say in #113 that only Jesus, and not the Jews can complete the 6 elements.... and then you said, He did... Can you explain why you respond to my comment disagreeing that Jesus did not fulfill them and in response to Dougg, you say He did? Please explain...