The Sheep and Goat Judgment:

[H. Richard]

When reading this in the Bible it is a mistake to assume it is about how we help others in the Christian life. If it is then we are still under law. A person should focus on “the why” these people are selected in each group. Understand the “Nations” in the scriptures are the Gentile people, if it were the Jews it would say Israel.

Matt 25:31-32
31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
NKJV

This judgment takes place after the Grace Church of His body has been caught up into the clouds. In other words those saved under grace will not be there to be judged.

There is absolutely no other reason given for the Sheep to be blessed except that they helped Jesus’ brethren, the Jews. No where in scripture are the Gentiles called Jesus’ brethren. I think is important that there is no mention of the sheep ever accepting Jesus as their savior or of placing their faith in Him.

As to the “why” it is contained in the covenant that was made with Abraham.

Gen 12:2-3
2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
NKJV

Where will the Sheep go? It is my opinion that they will be the gentile nations during the 1,000 year reign of Jesus on this earth.

 

[H. Richard]

In the Sunday school I attend the Sheep and Goat Judgement was used as an example of people doing good works; a fruit of the spirit. If you read it with understanding you see that the only reason the sheep go into the kingdom is because of their good works. Nothing about faith in Jesus.

To use this scripture as a reference to do good works is a false use of this scripture. This judgement takes place after the body of Christ is caught up in the clouds. Jesus will setup the promised kingdom of the Jews on this earth and there will be Gentile nations on this earth. Those that helped the Jews during the tribulations will be taken into that kingdom.

God promised Abraham that those that blessed him would be blessed, those that hated him will be cursed.

 

[StanJ]

Matthew 25:31-40 is depicted in Rev 20:11-15

 

[H. Richard]

Matthew 25:31-40 is depicted in Rev 20:11-15

Matthew 25:31-40 --- Yes

Rev 2011-15 --- No. Not the same thing. One is when Jesus returns to set up the Jewish kingdom. Rev is at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus on this earth.

 

[Trekson]

Well, I'd like to add my two cents to the conversation. I agree with H. Richard that the timing of Rev. 20:11-15 is not the same as Matt. 25:31-40. My opinion is that this judgement occurs at the end of the 70th week when Christ returns and deals with those left alive after Armageddon but I also believe that Israel is also considered in the word "all" from Matt. 25:32. I agree that belief in Christ is not a requirement at this time but it will be when they enter the kingdom. One more consideration is that I don't believe the Jews are the "my brethren" of vs. 40. I believe this is speaking of the church and those helping us out during the Great Trib. which is Satan's wrath against the church per Matt. 12:17. The only way Israel can be included into "my brethren" is by salvation through Christ and only on an individual basis.

 

[StanJ]

Matthew 25:31-40 --- Yes
Rev 2011-15 --- No. Not the same thing. One is when Jesus returns to set up the Jewish kingdom. Rev is at the end of the 1000 year reign of Jesus on this earth.

They both relate to the great white Throne judgement which is the only judgment that Jesus presides over.
It happens just prior to the new heaven and new earth being created in the New Jerusalem being brought down from heaven.

 

[H. Richard]

Well, I'd like to add my two cents to the conversation. I agree with H. Richard that the timing of Rev. 20:11-15 is not the same as Matt. 25:31-40. My opinion is that this judgement occurs at the end of the 70th week when Christ returns and deals with those left alive after Armageddon

but I also believe that Israel is also considered in the word "all" from Matt. 25:32. I agree that belief in Christ is not a requirement at this time but it will be when they enter the kingdom. One more consideration is that I don't believe the Jews are the "my brethren" of vs. 40. I believe this is speaking of the church and those helping us out during the Great Trib. which is Satan's wrath against the church per Matt. 12:17. The only way Israel can be included into "my brethren" is by salvation through Christ and only on an individual basis.

***
I agree with the first part but disagree with the "but" part. The verses say "all the nations," the nation of Israel has never been included with the nations. The nations have always been the gentile nations. When Jesus was on this earth His brethren were the Jews, not the gentiles.

 

[Trekson]

Hi HR, You wrote: "I agree with the first part but disagree with the "but" part. The verses say "all the nations," the nation of Israel has never been included with the nations. The nations have always been the gentile nations. When Jesus was on this earth His brethren were the Jews, not the gentiles."

Historically, you're correct that in the OT the "nations" were the Gentile nations but Jesus is giving a prophecy of the future not the past. At this moment in time Israel is just another nation. Yes, they will have significance in the millennium but not until then. Now it is only on an individual basis. Actually Jesus tells us who "His brethren" are in Matt. 12.

Matt.12:46-49: "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren."

I think it's reasonable to conclude seeing as how Christ first introduced the "church" in Matt. 10 that only those who consider themselves His disciples are "His brethren", which leads us to the fact that Matt. 25 is speaking of how much they helped the members of His Body that is enduring the Great Trib. that will decide if they become sheep or goats.

 

[H. Richard]

Hi HR, You wrote: "I agree with the first part but disagree with the "but" part. The verses say "all the nations," the nation of Israel has never been included with the nations. The nations have always been the gentile nations. When Jesus was on this earth His brethren were the Jews, not the gentiles."

Historically, you're correct that in the OT the "nations" were the Gentile nations but Jesus is giving a prophecy of the future not the past. At this moment in time Israel is just another nation. Yes, they will have significance in the millennium but not until then. Now it is only on an individual basis. Actually Jesus tells us who "His brethren" are in Matt. 12.

Matt.12:46-49: "While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren."

I think it's reasonable to conclude seeing as how Christ first introduced the "church" in Matt. 10 that only those who consider themselves His disciples are "His brethren", which leads us to the fact that Matt. 25 is speaking of how much they helped the members of His Body that is enduring the Great Trib. that will decide if they become sheep or goats.

***
You said " it's reasonable to conclude" I don't place much faith in assumptions.

According to the scriptures this judgement will take place when Jesus returns to set up His rule in Israel. That is after the 7 year tribulation. The church of His body will be gone before the 7 years. God's children are not the children of wrath. I other words God's wraith is not for His children.

You may not believe this but I do.

 

[Trekson]

Hi HR, You wrote: "You said " it's reasonable to conclude" I don't place much faith in assumptions.

According to the scriptures this judgement will take place when Jesus returns to set up His rule in Israel. That is after the 7 year tribulation. The church of His body will be gone before the 7 years. God's children are not the children of wrath. I other words God's wraith is not for His children.

You may not believe this but I do."

I used to be pre-trib until God led me to other studies which changed my mind from what I had been taught since childhood. My present eschatology is pre-wrath. I agree that we won't be here for His wrath but the question is when does His wrath begin? In pre-wrath we don't believe that the seals are part of His wrath. His wrath is contained within the sealed scroll and can't begin until the 7th and final seal is broken. They are a countdown to when the wrath of the Lamb actually begins with the trumpet judgments which is followed by the wrath of God which are the vial judgments. In Rev. 6:10, the 5th seal martyrs are wondering when His wrath will begin. They understand that the first 4 seals were not part of it. In Rev. 6:17 the phrase "is come" is in the present/future tense meaning they know it hasn't begun yet but it is on the verge as depicted by the signs of the 6th seal. We see Rev. 7:9 depicting the arrival of the raptured/resurrected church just after the sealing of the 144,000, then silence in heaven for half an hour (Rev. 8:1) as the solemnity of what is about to happen upon the earth is upon us and then the wrath begins with the sounding of the first trumpet.