The Seperation of the Sheep & Goats - Matthew 25:31-46

[face2face]

Greetings

We will be exploring the sequence of events on the Judgement Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) and the Throne of Christ's glory (Matthew 25:31).

When the believer is faced with Matthew 19:28 it's impossible not to understand the throne to mean anything else but the "Throne of David" on Earth.

It cannot be understood in any other way.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. (future tense)

The throne of his glory is unmistakably the throne of his father David. Jeremiah styles it a “glorious high throne” in Jeremiah 17:12 and “a throne of God’s glory” in Jeremiah 14:21. To understand Matthew 25:31-46 correctly we first must place Jesus on his throne, as King, and the judgment of the responsible follows. His throne becomes the judgment seat as per Matthew 24:30-31.

The idea of Jesus being in Heaven carrying out this judgement is nowhere taught in the Bible. The earth must be made subject to the Kings authority and teaching and while many things proceed the judgement; I have chosen to start here as a place of common ground.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Sometimes I feel many reading these posts find it difficult to comprehend because they are to long or overly wordy. I'm going to try and keep them as concise as possible.

Matthew 25:31 “Son of Man comes” Jesus is coming as the appointed judge of human kind John 5:26-27 & Daniel 7:13-14

John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself, thus he has granted the Son to have life in himself, and he has granted the Son authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

Not because he is God (false belief) or because he is the Son of God (true belief) but because he is the Son of Man

Q. Why does John & Matthew use the title "Son of Man" in relation to Christs coming & judgement?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Greetings

We will be exploring the sequence of events on the Judgement Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) and the Throne of Christ's glory (Matthew 25:31).

When the believer is faced with Matthew 19:28 it's impossible not to understand the throne to mean anything else but the "Throne of David" on Earth.

It cannot be understood in any other way.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. (future tense)

The throne of his glory is unmistakably the throne of his father David. Jeremiah styles it a “glorious high throne” in Jeremiah 17:12 and “a throne of God’s glory” in Jeremiah 14:21. To understand Matthew 25:31-46 correctly we first must place Jesus on his throne, as King, and the judgment of the responsible follows. His throne becomes the judgment seat as per Matthew 24:30-31.

The idea of Jesus being in Heaven carrying out this judgement is nowhere taught in the Bible. The earth must be made subject to the Kings authority and teaching and while many things proceed the judgement; I have chosen to start here as a place of common ground.

F2F

You know Face, most people are not aware that is a future time, by the time of his return however the sheep and goats will be separated, as the goats will be destroyed. So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

 

[face2face]

John 13:31. “Now is son of man glorified”

The relationship is between “Son of man” and “God” is in view and not Father and Son.

In Jesus's humanity he glorified God negatively and positively:

1. Negatively – His submission to the cross glorified God in the declaration of his Fathers righteousness Romans 3:24-26.
2. Positively – In his perfect life God was glorified “in him” 1 Timothy 3:16. (the only man to ever achieve this perfectly!)

The simple answer is this; Jesus is fully qualified to be our judge because "he was tempted in every way in his flesh and found without sin" and spotless. He can judge every person on the basis he triumphed fully over all temptation the flesh could throw at him without fault!

When you are before him, he can have compassion on us, because he knows what is in man. The will to disobey was in him also though he triumphed over it...."not my will but thine"

BUT there is more!

Each member of his glorious Body will be "like him" (1 John 3:2). The title Son of Man is very significant! It not only denotes the origin of Christ, in that every member will be a descendant of Adam, but is also the title of the Lord as judge (John 5:27), and the vision reveals the innumerable body of Christ in the work of judgment. The glorified Saints will also become the Son of Man. Remember if we are to be found "in Christ" we will love also his appearing! 2 Timothy 4:8

The prophecy of the Son of Man recorded in Daniel 7:13 is one of judgment.

 

[face2face]

You know Face, most people are not aware that is a future time, by the time of his return however the sheep and goats will be separated, as the goats will be destroyed. So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

Hi Robert, I agree though my understanding of the Revelation may be somewhat different to yours it's without doubt to still be future, the return of Christ and his judgement.
F2F

 

[face2face]

In terms of judgement:

This title "Son of Man" stamps Him as the representative of humanity, the one title the multitude of people finally could not accept! John 12:33, John 12:31-34

“Who is this Son of Man?” John 12:34

You dont want to be a Christian and not understand who the Son of Man is, that's for sure! The Pharisees & Saducees failed to understand him and rejected him and his title as Son of Man.

 

[face2face]

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. (future tense)

See Matthew 16:27

For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Jesus will confess us before the angels as Luke 12:8-9.
They are vitally interested in our lives as per Hebrews 1:14 and have been with the elect from the beginning!
Rome was judged in their presence as per Revelation 14:9-10

The angels are a massive subject and an interesting one - its clear their involvement is essential when opening the books of the lives. Revelation 20:12

So we have the Son of Man coming in his Fathers Glory with His Father angels to reward each believer according to the life they have lived.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hi Robert, I agree though my understanding of the Revelation may be somewhat different to yours it's without doubt to still be future, the return of Christ and his judgement.
F2F

Sheep and goats are not mentioned in Revelation Face, and the book of Revelation contains things past, present, and future sir. Most likely you are correct since we probably are not of the same faith, however I am always open to discussing any of those differences that we might have. Please feel free to ask, I never get mad, therefore try to conduct myself in a professional manner.

 

[face2face]

Sheep and goats are not mentioned in Revelation Face, and the book of Revelation contains things past, present, and future sir. Most likely you are correct since we probably are not of the same faith, however I am always open to discussing any of those differences that we might have. Please feel free to ask, I never get mad, therefore try to conduct myself in a professional manner.

Maybe you could qualify what you meant by the tribulation?

So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

This was what I was questioning.

F2F

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You know Face, most people are not aware that is a future time, by the time of his return however the sheep and goats will be separated, as the goats will be destroyed. So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

have you ever considered that which is flesh is a goat, and that which is spirit is the sheep
“My sheep hear my voice”


Proverbs 27:25-27 The hay appears (the hay the stubble is burned?), and the tender grass shews itself, and herbs of the mountains are gathered. [26] The lambs are for thy clothing, and the goats are the price of the field. [27] And thou shalt have goats' milk enough for thy food
Hebrews 5:11-12, for the food of thy household, and for the maintenance for thy maidens.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

have you ever considered that which is flesh is a goat, and that which is spirit is the sheep
“My sheep hear my voice”

all flesh is grass, the flower which is as the glory of of men withers and falls away …so (Imo) another way of looking at it is “the glory of man” is what is burned, goatish..here today gone tomorrow…

but the Glory of God after the Spirit and not the flesh…after the sheep and not the goats. Consider that goatish, bruitish, …goat skins?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

however the sheep and goats will be separated, as the goats will be destroyed. So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

“however the sheep and goats will be separated”

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

that is what is being suggested about the end times great tribulation..that He will come and divide that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is Spirit …to make on new man in Christ…where is that old man and those deeds of the flesh corruption, back biting, lying, defrauding…not using it as a cloak of malice …is that cloak of malice goat skin?

 

[Davy]

Greetings

We will be exploring the sequence of events on the Judgement Seat of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:10) and the Throne of Christ's glory (Matthew 25:31).

When the believer is faced with Matthew 19:28 it's impossible not to understand the throne to mean anything else but the "Throne of David" on Earth.

It cannot be understood in any other way.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. (future tense)

The throne of his glory is unmistakably the throne of his father David. Jeremiah styles it a “glorious high throne” in Jeremiah 17:12 and “a throne of God’s glory” in Jeremiah 14:21. To understand Matthew 25:31-46 correctly we first must place Jesus on his throne, as King, and the judgment of the responsible follows. His throne becomes the judgment seat as per Matthew 24:30-31.

The idea of Jesus being in Heaven carrying out this judgement is nowhere taught in the Bible. The earth must be made subject to the Kings authority and teaching and while many things proceed the judgement; I have chosen to start here as a place of common ground.

F2F

So far, so good.

 

[Davy]

Not because he is God (false belief) or because he is the Son of God (true belief) but because he is the Son of Man

Your phrase I put in bold underline suggests you are starting to stray from The Word of God on that point. Jesus is part of The Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, Three Persons.

This is why one of Jesus' titles per Isaiah 7 is "Immanuel", which Matthew 1:23 translates to 'God with us'. It is pointing to Jesus as God having come in the flesh, born of woman. Who else could be born by The Holy Spirit through a virgin?

 

[Davy]

John 13:31. “Now is son of man glorified”

The relationship is between “Son of man” and “God” is in view and not Father and Son.

In Jesus's humanity he glorified God negatively and positively:

1. Negatively – His submission to the cross glorified God in the declaration of his Fathers righteousness Romans 3:24-26.
2. Positively – In his perfect life God was glorified “in him” 1 Timothy 3:16. (the only man to ever achieve this perfectly!)

The simple answer is this; Jesus is fully qualified to be our judge because "he was tempted in every way in his flesh and found without sin" and spotless. He can judge every person on the basis he triumphed fully over all temptation the flesh could throw at him without fault!

You are starting to stray again.

The Father sending His Son to die on the cross for us I do not see in a negative sense at all.

Lord Jesus became the perfect Sacrifice for sin. And God ONLY could do that, not flesh man.

If flesh man could accomplish dying on the cross and resurrect after 3 days to save theirself then they would not need The Saviour Jesus Christ.

Jesus is qualified to be our Judge because He is Immanuel, God with us, having come in the flesh, born of a virgin by The Holy Spirit. The dwelling on the HUMANITY of Lord Jesus is a Nietzsche style philosophy.

Jesus was born in the flesh to die on the cross in order to defeat death for us (Hebrews 2:14).

 

[face2face]

Your phrase I put in bold underline suggests you are starting to stray from The Word of God on that point. Jesus is part of The Godhead of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Holy Spirit, Three Persons.

This is why one of Jesus' titles per Isaiah 7 is "Immanuel", which Matthew 1:23 translates to 'God with us'. It is pointing to Jesus as God having come in the flesh, born of woman. Who else could be born by The Holy Spirit through a virgin?

Na you're miles away Davy.
The eternal immortalized Jesus still refers to himself as the root and offspring of David (Revelation 22:16)! I haven't time to deal with imported theology...only the facts here!

 

[face2face]

Jesus was born in the (sins) flesh to die on the cross in order to defeat death for us (Hebrews 2:14).

True, He was tempted in all points as you are but without sin!

How did Jesus declare God's righteousness on the cross?
How did God show Himself just in publicly crucifying His Son?

Romans 3:26-28

Show your understanding...

 

[face2face]

Many Christians believe Heaven is their destination however the true Gospel Hope is that the earth is the reward of the Saints Matthew 5:5

For Jesus to ascend the throne of David a number of things need to take place.

The Lord Jesus Christ's throne needs to be set up! While he was a throne in Heaven that throne is not the one promised him by His father Luke 1:32

“Thrones are placed” Daniel 7:9

It speaks of unquestionable justice as per Psalms 9:4; Psalms 11:4; Romans 3:4

So not only is the Christ coming to judge the sheep and the goats - there is much work to be done in bringing order back to the earth!

In terms of the glory of that throne it will be the same glory that Peter, James, and John saw on the Mount of Transfiguration and that was a preview of the millennial glory of Christ (Matthew 17:1-2) will be revealed to the world at Christ’s second advent.

There is still the question of the order of events which is somewhat debated within many communities around the earth. I will be looking at a number of possibilities.

F2F

 

[Davy]

Na you're miles away Davy.
The eternal immortalized Jesus still refers to himself as the root and offspring of David (Revelation 22:16)! I haven't time to deal with imported theology...only the facts here!

I DID state Biblical FACT, so no thanks for your reply of doubting the actual written Scripture.

Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
KJV

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
KJV

Jesus of Nazareth is God having come in the flesh, which is what His title of "Immanuel" means.

 

[Davy]

True, He was tempted in all points as you are but without sin!

I don't like you adding to my quote like the word 'sins'. That was NOT in my original post, nor is it an idea that belongs in that verse.

"Jesus was born in the (sins) flesh to die on the cross in order to defeat death for us (Hebrews 2:14)."

Jesus was NOT born into 'sins'. He was born into the flesh like us, but was WITHOUT SIN. You would have understood that if you had actually grasped the meaning of that verse, which reveals just HOW Jesus defeated death for us, i.e., by NOT having any sin and becoming the perfect sacrifice for us for one and all time.