The Seperation of the Sheep & Goats - Matthew 25:31-46

[face2face]

I don't like you adding to my quote like the word 'sins'. That was NOT in my original post, nor is it an idea that belongs in that verse.

"Jesus was born in the (sins) flesh to die on the cross in order to defeat death for us (Hebrews 2:14)."

Jesus was NOT born into 'sins'. He was born into the flesh like us, but was WITHOUT SIN. You would have understood that if you had actually grasped the meaning of that verse, which reveals just HOW Jesus defeated death for us, i.e., by NOT having any sin and becoming the perfect sacrifice for us for one and all time.

Not to worry Davy...you have your own model of theology, which is based on the traditions and commandments of men.

By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh Romans 8:3

Christ had exactly our nature - no different! No dual nature! No immortal essence in him - just flesh and blood!

Hebrews 2:14 "shared our humanity
Hebrews 2:15"to save those enslaved to the flesh"
Hebrews 2:16 "to save Abraham's descendants"
Hebrews 2:17 "our nature in every respect!"

2 Corinthians 5:21 "made sin for us"

Hebrews 5:1 "High Priest chosen among men!"

Romans 1:3 "Of the seed of David"

On and on and on Davy!!!!

You dont have a god-man you have a fraud!

Also, I never said Jesus was born into sin! I said he was born with sins flesh! Big difference!

 

[face2face]

I DID state Biblical FACT, so no thanks for your reply of doubting the actual written Scripture.

Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
KJV

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
KJV

Jesus of Nazareth is God having come in the flesh, which is what His title of "Immanuel" means.

I dont know what you think those verses mean but trust me when I say, you dont! If you want to learn I am happy to show you, but if you keep putting this garbage into my threads its only going to annoy me ;)

F2F

 

[Davy]

Not to worry Davy...you have your own model of theology, which is based on the traditions and commandments of men.

By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh Romans 8:3

Christ had exactly our nature - no different! No dual nature! No immortal essence in him - just flesh and blood!

Hebrews 2:14 "shared our humanity
Hebrews 2:15"to save those enslaved to the flesh"
Hebrews 2:16 "to save Abraham's descendants"
Hebrews 2:17 "our nature in every respect!"

2 Corinthians 5:21 "made sin for us"

Hebrews 5:1 "High Priest chosen among men!"

Romans 1:3 "Of the seed of David"

On and on and on Davy!!!!

You dont have a god-man you have a fraud!

Also, I never said Jesus was born into sin! I said he was born with sins flesh! Big difference!

So just because Apostle Paul called Jesus' flesh as "sinful flesh" you believe that means Jesus had sin!

Thanks for letting us know you follow GNOSTICISM, because they don't believe Jesus was without sin.

 

[Davy]

I dont know what you think those verses mean but trust me when I say, you dont! If you want to learn I am happy to show you, but if you keep putting this garbage into my threads its only going to annoy me ;)

F2F

All I know by your own words, is that you DENY the Deity of Jesus Christ, and that is what the GNOSTICS also do.

 

[face2face]

So just because Apostle Paul called Jesus' flesh as "sinful flesh" you believe that means Jesus had sin!

Thanks for letting us know you follow GNOSTICISM, because they don't believe Jesus was without sin.

You dont read aright Davy.
Jesus had sins flesh.
What do you think that means?

 

[face2face]

All I know by your own words, is that you DENY the Deity of Jesus Christ, and that is what the GNOSTICS also do.

When Jesus spoke his last words to you what did he call himself?

 

[face2face]

Moving along from that slight deviation...

Lets start a sequence shall we?

1. Matthew 25:31 “Jesus comes in glory, accompanied by the angels, and ‘sits upon the throne of his glory’.

2. Matthew 25:31 The responsible out of all nations are gathered, when the sheep and goats are separated.

3. Matthew 25:33-44 The reward of the faithful and punishment of the wicked.

Note the way in which Jesus describes himself as king , on account of his then having assumed that position.

"Then the king will say...." - He has returned to the Earth to take up Davids throne!

Now there has long been debate over the sequence and the idea of him appearing openly. Jesus in the one place appearing, at his coming, openly, as per Matthew 24:27 “as the lightning cometh out of the East and shineth even unto the West,” and in the other, setting himself upon his throne, and afterwards in each case, the “gathering” of the responsible.

The “gathering” being done with “a great sound of a trumpet” reminds us that “at the last trump the dead shall be raised, and we shall be changed” 1 Corinthians 15:52, and also that “at the trump of God, the dead shall be raised, who, with the living, will be hurried off with the clouds (angels) to meet the Lord in the air” (the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness), “and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Linking Matthew 24:30-31 with Luke 21:34-36 we have Jesus pointing out that “that day will come as a snare upon all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth,” but warns his disciples to “take heed . . . lest that day come upon you unawares. . . . Watch ye therefore.” The same warning is given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 “The day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night” . . . upon the world. . . . “Sudden destruction, . . . and they shall not escape; but ye, brethren, are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Does Jesus initiate the resurrection prior to him sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem, or afterwards?

Further consideration is needed.

 

[Davy]

You dont read aright Davy.
Jesus had sins flesh.
What do you think that means?

Jesus was born in the flesh like us, but He had NO sin. So WHY... are you calling His flesh had sin?????????? That is essentially what YOU are saying. God's Word does not say Jesus sinned, but just the opposite.

Those you are listening to are trying to trick you into believing that Jesus had sin so they can destroy your Faith.

 

[Davy]

When Jesus spoke his last words to you what did he call himself?

When Jesus spoke His last words upon His cross, He was quoting from Psalms 22 that He gave through His prophet king David. Jesus was TEACHING even while upon His cross.

 

[Davy]

Moving along from that slight deviation...

Lets start a sequence shall we?

1. Matthew 25:31 “Jesus comes in glory, accompanied by the angels, and ‘sits upon the throne of his glory’.

2. Matthew 25:31 The responsible out of all nations are gathered, when the sheep and goats are separated.

3. Matthew 25:33-44 The reward of the faithful and punishment of the wicked.

Note the way in which Jesus describes himself as king , on account of his then having assumed that position.

"Then the king will say...." - He has returned to the Earth to take up Davids throne!

Now there has long been debate over the sequence and the idea of him appearing openly. Jesus in the one place appearing, at his coming, openly, as per Matthew 24:27 “as the lightning cometh out of the East and shineth even unto the West,” and in the other, setting himself upon his throne, and afterwards in each case, the “gathering” of the responsible.

The “gathering” being done with “a great sound of a trumpet” reminds us that “at the last trump the dead shall be raised, and we shall be changed” 1 Corinthians 15:52, and also that “at the trump of God, the dead shall be raised, who, with the living, will be hurried off with the clouds (angels) to meet the Lord in the air” (the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness), “and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

Linking Matthew 24:30-31 with Luke 21:34-36 we have Jesus pointing out that “that day will come as a snare upon all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth,” but warns his disciples to “take heed . . . lest that day come upon you unawares. . . . Watch ye therefore.” The same warning is given by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 “The day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night” . . . upon the world. . . . “Sudden destruction, . . . and they shall not escape; but ye, brethren, are not in darkness that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Does Jesus initiate the resurrection prior to him sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem, or afterwards?

Further consideration is needed.

Don't be fooled by this fellow's words brethren. His words shows he is still not completely decided on whether to believe a pre-trib rapture or not. Why do I say that?

His words:
1. "Now there has long been debate over the sequence and the idea of him appearing openly."

2. "... that “at the trump of God, the dead shall be raised, who, with the living, will be hurried off with the clouds (angels) to meet the Lord in the air” (the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness), “and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

3. "Does Jesus initiate the resurrection prior to him sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem, or afterwards?"

______________________________

My words:
1. There is NO valid debate on the sequence and idea of Christ's future appearing. It is clearly written of in The Word of God. Just because some reject the written Word of God on that doesn't mean that is a valid debate by them. Their rejection of what is written in The Word of God reveals they actually stand on nothingness. And His Word is emphatic that He comes to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation, as specifically written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

2. His insertion of the phrase "(the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness)", suggests man's doctrine of Amillennialism, which is not written in God's Word. They believe that on the day of Christ's future return that we go immediately into the new heavens and a new earth timing, with all the wicked destroyed. That idea is not written.

3. Anyone who KEEPS The Word of God as written should know that the resurrection is set to happen on the LAST DAY of this present world with Jesus' future coming. There's too many Scriptures examples to list, that's how obvious it is in God's Word.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Maybe you could qualify what you meant by the tribulation?



This was what I was questioning.

F2F

Sure, Jesus said this sir: (Matthew 24:21) . . .there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. We believe the judging of the sheep and goats will be finalized during this period, as upon Jesus' return to end the tribulation the goats will be destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[Robert Gwin]

have you ever considered that which is flesh is a goat, and that which is spirit is the sheep
“My sheep hear my voice”


Proverbs 27:25-27 The hay appears (the hay the stubble is burned?), and the tender grass shews itself, and herbs of the mountains are gathered. [26] The lambs are for thy clothing, and the goats are the price of the field. [27] And thou shalt have goats' milk enough for thy food
Hebrews 5:11-12, for the food of thy household, and for the maintenance for thy maidens.

In a way maam, clearly the sheep are spiritual people, and display the fruitages of the spirit Gal 5:22,23 whereas the goats will display the works of the flesh v19-21
I agree if you are meaning it in that way, if you are indicating there will not be humans any longer, then no as God's purpose is to fill the earth, and what goes forth from His mouth, never goes unfulfilled Vicky.

 

[Robert Gwin]

“however the sheep and goats will be separated”

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

that is what is being suggested about the end times great tribulation..that He will come and divide that which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is Spirit …to make on new man in Christ…where is that old man and those deeds of the flesh corruption, back biting, lying, defrauding…not using it as a cloak of malice …is that cloak of malice goat skin?

It is very important to become spiritually minded people now for sure Vicky, to be conscious of our spiritual need Mat 5:3, to seek that Kingdom first in our lives now Mat 6:33 so that we will not catch ourselves of guard and be declared a goat maam. Like those in Noah's day, far too many are taking no note Mat 24:39

 

[marks]

You know Face, most people are not aware that is a future time, by the time of his return however the sheep and goats will be separated, as the goats will be destroyed. So the figurative separation will likely occur during the great tribulation.

The passage gives the timing. Jesus will return, and then He will take His throne, and then He will divide the nations. So this is after the greath tribulation, according to Jesus' prophecy.

Let's keep to what it says, OK?

Much love!

 

[Robert Gwin]

The passage gives the timing. Jesus will return, and then He will take His throne, and then He will divide the nations. So this is after the greath tribulation, according to Jesus' prophecy.

Let's keep to what it says, OK?

Much love!

Hi Marks, the signs Jesus gave in Mat 24 was given so his disciples could recognize that he had became installed as King in the heavens, which would usher in the last days of this system before he returns to earth. The signs are well established sir, he is already King. When he comes all nations will be wiped out and the Kingdom of God will rule over the earth Dan 2:44. This will happen immediately after the great tribulation in fulfillment of Mat 24:22. Agape to you as well sir.

 

[Wrangler]

Sometimes I feel many reading these posts find it difficult to comprehend because they are to long or overly wordy. I'm going to try and keep them as concise as possible.

Agreed. Very wise.

 

[Wrangler]

you are starting to stray from The Word of God on that point. Jesus is part of The ...

<4th century man-made invention of 3-is-1, not in the Word of God>

You are starting to stray again.

Na you're miles away Davy.

He sure is. Can hardly be further away than cite idols AS the Word of God. He does that but does not realize it. Quoting the word of God is straying from the word of God, in his indolatrous thinking. Wow!

While he was a throne in Heaven that throne is not the one promised him by His father Luke 1:32

So, far your analysis has been brilliant. Thank you so much! A real pleasure to read.

I want to add here that there are 2 thrones, David's and God's. This is true regardless of who sits on that throne. If you or me or Jesus sits on David's throne, that does not make us David. Same with God. Likewise, sitting on God's throne does not make the person God.

This is the application of Agency used throughout Scripture and human history. Be it a prophet or emmissary or angels; one speaking or acting on behalf of their master does not make them the master.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't like you adding to my quote like the word 'sins'. That was NOT in my original post, nor is it an idea that belongs in that verse.

How very petulant of you! This is not a debate thread and you seem to want to debate and control the direction of the study of the OP. Sad.

Don't be fooled by this fellow's words brethren.

Now you sit in judgment. Bless your heart!

 

[Davy]

As I have said about what face2face is preaching, I was stating fact that is easy to prove by The Word of God as written. So no one can try and say it is my word that convicts what face2face said from the doctrines of men...

His words:
1. "Now there has long been debate over the sequence and the idea of him appearing openly."

2. "... that “at the trump of God, the dead shall be raised, who, with the living, will be hurried off with the clouds (angels) to meet the Lord in the air” (the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness), “and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

3. "Does Jesus initiate the resurrection prior to him sitting on the throne of David in Jerusalem, or afterwards?"

______________________________

My words:
1. There is NO valid debate on the sequence and idea of Christ's future appearing. It is clearly written of in The Word of God. Just because some reject the written Word of God on that doesn't mean that is a valid debate by them. Their rejection of what is written in The Word of God reveals they actually stand on nothingness. And His Word is emphatic that He comes to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation, as specifically written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27.

2. His insertion of the phrase "(the new heaven, where he will at that time be established as the Sun of Righteousness)", suggests man's doctrine of Amillennialism, which is not written in God's Word. They believe that on the day of Christ's future return that we go immediately into the new heavens and a new earth timing, with all the wicked destroyed. That idea is not written.

3. Anyone who KEEPS The Word of God as written should know that the resurrection is set to happen on the LAST DAY of this present world with Jesus' future coming. There's too many Scriptures examples to list, that's how obvious it is in God's Word.

 

[Davy]

How very petulant of you! This is not a debate thread and you seem to want to debate and control the direction of the study of the OP. Sad.

Now you sit in judgment. Bless your heart!

May God rebuke you, in the name of Jesus Christ.