And what percent of abortions are to "save the life of the mother"? Almost zero maybe? It's a $$$ making industry. It's not to help anyone but those who are getting rich.
The right to abort. The right to ask for the aborted to be adopted instead. These are the same thing!
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This was addressed to the original poster, not you. I already know your thoughts on this and didn't need you to respond.
Please stop replying to me. I already know your thoughts.
You don't seem to care for the women who will lose their own lives only for the fetus that will die anyway.
So you and I are at an impasse.
Didn't you just reply to me?
Oh I do care. That's why I say "let them live". Don't kill babies because sinful, rich doctors / Planned Parenthood wants $$$.
A fetus is a baby.
One more time, I am asking for you to stop replying to me. Can you do that, without replying to this? I will know that you can when you don't reply.
I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to your comment. You are using Liberal tactics as usual. You're all for freedom of speech as long as they agree with you. If you keep spewing Left wing propaganda I will keep pointing it out. This forum is about being merciful Christians. Killing babies is Satanic!
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In replying to my comment, you're replying to me. No liberal tactics at all, it is what it is. You replying to me. I'm not even a liberal anyway, I am a moderate.
Now, stop replying to me as I have asked you to do.
Did you just reply to me again?
"If you keep spewing Left wing propaganda I will keep pointing it out. This forum is about being merciful Christians. Killing babies is Satanic!"
Because I am proving a point. You don't listen. Anyone else would have stopped replying to me the first time that I asked. You keep going and going.
And I am responding to correct your incorrect points. I am not spewing left-wing propaganda. The fact that there are medical abortions to save the mother's life is just a fact. It isn't left-wing or right-wing, they are just facts. Facts that you simply do not accept, which is fine, but they still remain facts nonetheless. Also, the overwhelming majority of Republicans agree with abortions for medical reasons and that is reflected in the laws regarding abortion. So, you saying it is a left-wing thing is incorrect. It is a bi-partisan thing.
There is also nothing satanic about medical abortions to save the life of the mother. Satan wants both of them to die, so not having abortions for medical reasons, that would be falling right into what satan wants.
It is sad that a fetus has to be aborted for medical reasons, but both mother and child don't have to die.
Yeah, I keep defending babies. Why don't you call them "babies"?
A Christian would tell a Christian lady to pray to God for help. God answers prayers by His people. God would not say "murder your baby to save your own life". Would you rather die and be with Jesus or kill your baby and risk burning in Hell?
Because of the stage that they are at they are called fetuses. I am using the correct medical term for them as I am an EMT and that is what I do.
He does, but not all the time. I have seen that myself. I transported a woman who was having trouble with her pregnancy and it was really early on. There was no viability for the fetus as she was at about 16 weeks along. She was praying to God to save her and the pregnancy. She didn't want an abortion. We left and had to go back later on. I checked in on her only to find that she had died from blood loss. Both lives were lost. I have seen it in other medical emergencies as well. They pray and God doesn't answer and they die. God doesn't heal everyone.
You really do not know that He would not say that. He may absolutely want her to save her own life if the fetus is going to die anyway. As I have been saying, why should both die when one can live? This is not a black-and-white issue. There are shades of grey that you keep ignoring.
If the fetus was going to die anyway, I would if I was a female have a medical abortion. The fetus will die anyway, so why should I die with it, especially if I had other children that need their mother? Again, shades of grey that you ignore.
We are at an impasse. I will not change my mind and neither will you. So please, show me the respect of not replying to me as I have asked.
They are babies!
How do you even know she was a Christian? If she was Christian then she's better off than you and me!
I know God wouldn't say "kill your baby" so you can live!
It's a BABY! Doctors are not God! They make LOTS of errors. They have killed many people, but they still get paid, right? Honest doctors will tell you that. Do you believe doctors more than God of the Bible?
I will still call them by the name they are at that particular stage of pregnancy.
She told me she was. I believed her and still do.
Her husband and other children would beg to differ on that point.
No, you really do not.
You are correct, they aren't God, but they are there and treating the patient. They generally know the outcome. God hasn't promised that everyone will live who prays to Him. If that were the case, no one would die from anything if they prayed to Him. I have seen lots of death, many were Christians. At that moment when a doctor says that if you don't abort now you will die, I will believe the doctor. I would still pray that God saves us both (again if I was a woman), but if the fetus is going to die whether I abort or not, I would choose to abort because both don't need to die. Satan wants both to die. I believe that God would want one to live if both don't have to die.
I see you're not going to stop replying after I have asked repeatedly for you too. So I guess we'll just keep saying the same thing over and over again ad nauseum.
'fetus'
Synonyms: foetus, embryo, unborn child, unborn baby, baby,
fetus - English-Spanish Dictionary - WordReference.com
fetus - Translation to Spanish, pronunciation, and forum discussionsWould her family be happy if she was in Hell for murdering her baby?
So you're saying the YOUR God would tell her to murder her baby? Sounds just like what Satan would tell her.
Doctors are almost as bad as politicians!
"Preventable Medical Errors Are Now the Third Leading Cause of Death in the United States"
Medical Malpractice Death Statistics
Death statistics from medical malpractice in hospitals and various medical facilities are drastically rising and the latest report estimates that approximately 251,000 deaths per year occur due to error
And those are just the deaths they cause that they can't cover up.
Behold
Well-Known Member
FYI
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Carol Everett was involved in the abortion industry in the Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas, area. As director of four clinics, owner of two, Ms. Everett was responsible for the clinics' daily operation as well as all employee training programs. Everett, who had an abortion soon after it became legal in 1973, now speaks out on "What I Saw in the Abortion Industry."
Q. WHAT LED YOU TO BECOME INVOLVED IN THE ABORTION INDUSTRY? A. I was searching, attempting to justify my own abortion. I finally evolved into a job working for a man who eventually owned four abortion clinics. Soon, with just a few marketing changes, his business more than doubled. Each time I sold an abortion, I justified my own.
I watched my employer's income go from $25,000 to $125,000 a year in two clinics. I wanted part of that money earned in direct response to my efforts. So I marched into his office and said, "I have more than doubled your business - I want an equity interest." And he politely said, "No." I placed a yellow page advertisment for my own abortion clinic which would open in six months (when the yellow pages came out).
Q. WHY DO YOU REFER TO IT AS AN ABORTION "INDUSTRY"? A. It is the largest uncontrolled industry in our nation. Most of the clinics are run in chains because it is so profitable. Where else can someone like me make $150,000, much less a quarter of a million a year?
I made $25 for each abortion, so I knew exactly how many we did. The last month I was involved, 545 abortions equaled $13,625 in my pocket.
I have seen three doctors split $4,500 for three hours work. I suppose it is much more now, but that was not bad for three hours work on a Saturday morning.
Q. DID YOU OPERATE THE CLINIC SEVEN DAYS A WEEK? A. Yes. Sunday was our most profitable day. Most women want to get in and get out quickly. They know abortion is wrong, and especially on Sunday, so they hurry through. The women don't ask questions on Sunday. You can work with a skeleton staff because the women who come in for an abortion on Sunday mean business. We would do 15 to 20 (abortions) on Sunday in two to three hours! While everybody else was in church, we were doing abortions!
Q. WHAT DID IT COST TO HAVE AN ABORTION? A. Then it was $185 to $1,250 for a second or third trimester abortion. The price was based on the number of weeks into the pregnancy. Twelve weeks and under was $185 and 13 to 14 weeks was $250, and 14 to 15 weeks was $375. The $1,250 was the top of the line - general anesthesia, second or third trimester abortion. Abortions can be performed with oral medication or, if you have the money, with general anesthesia. It's not free!
Q. WOULD ABORTION CLINICS TURN AWAY WOMEN WHO COULDN'T PAY THE FULL PRICE? A. When I was still in the abortion industry, an 18-year-old women wanted an abortion but only had $50. She was 18 to 19 weeks pregnant, which meant the total abortion price would be $450. She went to several abortion clinics in Dallas. Not one of the clinics she approached would give her a free abortion, so she went to a "back-alley" abortionist who was supposed to be out of business, had her abortion, and died!
Q. HOW DID YOU ADVERTISE YOUR CLINICS? A. We spent roughly $350,000 annually on advertising - $250,000 in yellow page advertising, $50,000 in newspaper advertising, and the balance in direct-mail with coupons. Research your market, and advertise where the consumer will see it.
We used the coupon method of tracking the effectiveness. At one time we had so many coupons available that if a woman had brought them all in, we would have had to pay her to have an abortion! That's how bad it was.
Q. WHAT TYPES OF COUNSELING WAS OFFERED AT THE CLINICS? A. In the clinics I was involved with, we didn't do any real counseling. We answered only the questions the woman asked and tried not to "rock the boat". We did not discuss any alternatives to abortion unless the woman forced us to. Each woman asks two questions. "Is it a baby?" "No, it is a product of conception (blood clot or glob of tissue)." "Will it hurt?" "No, you will feel a slight cramping sensation." Most women have had the cramps and have lived through them, so the woman thinks the procedure must not be too painful, however, an abortion is excruciatingly painful!
The counselor does try to determine the reason this woman wants the abortion. Not so much to help as to use fear to reinforce the abortion decision.
Q. WAS THERE ANY FOLLOW-UP COUNSELING? A. We told them it would be available, however, we used some techniques in the recovery room to discourage further contact except for future abortions. We told them, "In about seven to ten days you are going to feel depressed for a couple of days. Don't worry about that. When a woman has a baby, she has a couple of days of postpartum depression. You will have that, too. It's just your body figuring out that you are not pregnant, and your hormones are realigning." So when the woman starts to deal with the reality that "I killed my baby", she thinks it is normal because of the hormone activity. She is encouraged to repress these natural feelings.
Yet, a 13-year-old girl came in for a two-week check-up. The check-up is not as much to check them, as it is to be sure you didn't miss a pregnancy. She didn't come out of the room for a long period of time. She was slitting her wrists.
Q. WHAT METHOD OF ABORTION DID YOUR CLINIC USE? A. For the most part, the abortion industry stopped using the saline and prostaglandin procedures because of the number of live births. A live birth means you have to let the baby die, or dipose of it in some distasteful way. Most second and third trimester abortionists use the D & E (dilation and evacuation) method. The abortionist uses a large forceps to crush the baby inside the mother's uterus and remove it in pieces. The side effects of live birth and the mother going through labor are avoided. But it is a horrible procedure in which the baby must be re-constructed outside the uterus to be certain all the parts have been removed!
Q. HOW DID YOU DISPOSE OF AN ABORTED BABY? A. In our clinics, we put them down the garbage disposal. We used the heavy duty model. Some second and third trimester babies' muscle structure is so strong that the baby will not come apart, so they must be disposed of through trash receptables.
Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ABORTIONS ON WOMEN WHO WERE NOT PREGNANT? A. Yes. The women who is not pregnant, or the one who is too far advanced in her pregnancy, may see the doctor before the abortion procedure. A sonogram is performed, locating a clear view of the uterus. A uterus will show up pregnant or not. The sonogram screen is locked in place and the doctor or technician points out the uterus to the woman. "See, you are pregnant." This woman who does not routinely read sonograms accepts the opinion of the expert and buys an abortion she does not need!
Q. WHAT WAS THE YOUNGEST GIRL WHO YOU SAW COME INTO YOUR CLINIC TO OBTAIN AN ABORTION? A. The youngest girl I ever saw was eleven years old. The youngest I have heard of was nine years old. By the same token, a crisis pregnancy center in our area counseled a ten-year-old who delivered a healthy baby.
Q. WHAT WAS THE LATEST STAGE OF PREGNANCY WHERE AN ABORTION TOOK PLACE? A. The largest baby I ever saw aborted was thirty-two weeks.
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Carol Everett was involved in the abortion industry in the Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas, area. As director of four clinics, owner of two, Ms. Everett was responsible for the clinics' daily operation as well as all employee training programs. Everett, who had an abortion soon after it became legal in 1973, now speaks out on "What I Saw in the Abortion Industry."
Q. WHAT LED YOU TO BECOME INVOLVED IN THE ABORTION INDUSTRY? A. I was searching, attempting to justify my own abortion. I finally evolved into a job working for a man who eventually owned four abortion clinics. Soon, with just a few marketing changes, his business more than doubled. Each time I sold an abortion, I justified my own.
I watched my employer's income go from $25,000 to $125,000 a year in two clinics. I wanted part of that money earned in direct response to my efforts. So I marched into his office and said, "I have more than doubled your business - I want an equity interest." And he politely said, "No." I placed a yellow page advertisment for my own abortion clinic which would open in six months (when the yellow pages came out).
Q. WHY DO YOU REFER TO IT AS AN ABORTION "INDUSTRY"? A. It is the largest uncontrolled industry in our nation. Most of the clinics are run in chains because it is so profitable. Where else can someone like me make $150,000, much less a quarter of a million a year?
I made $25 for each abortion, so I knew exactly how many we did. The last month I was involved, 545 abortions equaled $13,625 in my pocket.
I have seen three doctors split $4,500 for three hours work. I suppose it is much more now, but that was not bad for three hours work on a Saturday morning.
Q. DID YOU OPERATE THE CLINIC SEVEN DAYS A WEEK? A. Yes. Sunday was our most profitable day. Most women want to get in and get out quickly. They know abortion is wrong, and especially on Sunday, so they hurry through. The women don't ask questions on Sunday. You can work with a skeleton staff because the women who come in for an abortion on Sunday mean business. We would do 15 to 20 (abortions) on Sunday in two to three hours! While everybody else was in church, we were doing abortions!
Q. WHAT DID IT COST TO HAVE AN ABORTION? A. Then it was $185 to $1,250 for a second or third trimester abortion. The price was based on the number of weeks into the pregnancy. Twelve weeks and under was $185 and 13 to 14 weeks was $250, and 14 to 15 weeks was $375. The $1,250 was the top of the line - general anesthesia, second or third trimester abortion. Abortions can be performed with oral medication or, if you have the money, with general anesthesia. It's not free!
Q. WOULD ABORTION CLINICS TURN AWAY WOMEN WHO COULDN'T PAY THE FULL PRICE? A. When I was still in the abortion industry, an 18-year-old women wanted an abortion but only had $50. She was 18 to 19 weeks pregnant, which meant the total abortion price would be $450. She went to several abortion clinics in Dallas. Not one of the clinics she approached would give her a free abortion, so she went to a "back-alley" abortionist who was supposed to be out of business, had her abortion, and died!
Q. HOW DID YOU ADVERTISE YOUR CLINICS? A. We spent roughly $350,000 annually on advertising - $250,000 in yellow page advertising, $50,000 in newspaper advertising, and the balance in direct-mail with coupons. Research your market, and advertise where the consumer will see it.
We used the coupon method of tracking the effectiveness. At one time we had so many coupons available that if a woman had brought them all in, we would have had to pay her to have an abortion! That's how bad it was.
Q. WHAT TYPES OF COUNSELING WAS OFFERED AT THE CLINICS? A. In the clinics I was involved with, we didn't do any real counseling. We answered only the questions the woman asked and tried not to "rock the boat". We did not discuss any alternatives to abortion unless the woman forced us to. Each woman asks two questions. "Is it a baby?" "No, it is a product of conception (blood clot or glob of tissue)." "Will it hurt?" "No, you will feel a slight cramping sensation." Most women have had the cramps and have lived through them, so the woman thinks the procedure must not be too painful, however, an abortion is excruciatingly painful!
The counselor does try to determine the reason this woman wants the abortion. Not so much to help as to use fear to reinforce the abortion decision.
Q. WAS THERE ANY FOLLOW-UP COUNSELING? A. We told them it would be available, however, we used some techniques in the recovery room to discourage further contact except for future abortions. We told them, "In about seven to ten days you are going to feel depressed for a couple of days. Don't worry about that. When a woman has a baby, she has a couple of days of postpartum depression. You will have that, too. It's just your body figuring out that you are not pregnant, and your hormones are realigning." So when the woman starts to deal with the reality that "I killed my baby", she thinks it is normal because of the hormone activity. She is encouraged to repress these natural feelings.
Yet, a 13-year-old girl came in for a two-week check-up. The check-up is not as much to check them, as it is to be sure you didn't miss a pregnancy. She didn't come out of the room for a long period of time. She was slitting her wrists.
Q. WHAT METHOD OF ABORTION DID YOUR CLINIC USE? A. For the most part, the abortion industry stopped using the saline and prostaglandin procedures because of the number of live births. A live birth means you have to let the baby die, or dipose of it in some distasteful way. Most second and third trimester abortionists use the D & E (dilation and evacuation) method. The abortionist uses a large forceps to crush the baby inside the mother's uterus and remove it in pieces. The side effects of live birth and the mother going through labor are avoided. But it is a horrible procedure in which the baby must be re-constructed outside the uterus to be certain all the parts have been removed!
Q. HOW DID YOU DISPOSE OF AN ABORTED BABY? A. In our clinics, we put them down the garbage disposal. We used the heavy duty model. Some second and third trimester babies' muscle structure is so strong that the baby will not come apart, so they must be disposed of through trash receptables.
Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ABORTIONS ON WOMEN WHO WERE NOT PREGNANT? A. Yes. The women who is not pregnant, or the one who is too far advanced in her pregnancy, may see the doctor before the abortion procedure. A sonogram is performed, locating a clear view of the uterus. A uterus will show up pregnant or not. The sonogram screen is locked in place and the doctor or technician points out the uterus to the woman. "See, you are pregnant." This woman who does not routinely read sonograms accepts the opinion of the expert and buys an abortion she does not need!
Q. WHAT WAS THE YOUNGEST GIRL WHO YOU SAW COME INTO YOUR CLINIC TO OBTAIN AN ABORTION? A. The youngest girl I ever saw was eleven years old. The youngest I have heard of was nine years old. By the same token, a crisis pregnancy center in our area counseled a ten-year-old who delivered a healthy baby.
Q. WHAT WAS THE LATEST STAGE OF PREGNANCY WHERE AN ABORTION TOOK PLACE? A. The largest baby I ever saw aborted was thirty-two weeks.
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And so, using this same thought process and reasoning, we should abandon all research, treatment and medical procedures for terminal illnesses and maladies, because they are certain to end in death, if not immediately, eventually. All people with terminal maladies -- because they are all "anomalies certain to result in death" -- must be... terminated... as a necessary medical procedure, presumably both to euthanize and reduce the burden on society (not necessarily in that order). That is the end of this "reasoning," that there is no such thing as a "necessary" medical procedure, and in fact medical procedures of all kinds are unnecessary burdens on society.
Wow. Just... wow. No, what you are saying here, Jim, is what people who only think they are thinking are thinking.
The decision to murder cannot, must not, be sanctioned to human being, male or female, family or not, physician or healthcare worker of any sort.
The last I checked, murder was against the law.
Grace and peace to you.
'fetus'
Synonyms: foetus, embryo, unborn child, unborn baby, baby,
fetus - English-Spanish Dictionary - WordReference.com
fetus - Translation to Spanish, pronunciation, and forum discussions
www.wordreference.com
So fetus is indeed the correct term. Thank you for making my point for me.
You do not know that is where she would have gone. As I said, the fetus was going to die anyway. She wouldn't have murdered anything. It was already dying.
I am saying that God would be okay with her saving herself if there is no chance the fetus will survive. She isn't murdering anything. It is already dying with no hope for survival.
They still get alot of stuff right. To not believe doctors would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. No pun intended. I trust my medical doctor to know what's going wrong with me at any given moment. Can they get something wrong, sure. Can they say that a fetus is going to die and it really wouldn't have, we may never know the answer to that question, but I do not think God would hold anyone to responsible if they are making the best decision with the information given. You will think differently, of that I have no doubt.
My God is merciful, yours not so much apparently.
As I said and will keep saying, we are at an impasse. Neither of us is going to change our minds and we'll just keep repeating ourselves.
I have said it before and I guess I have to repeat myself again. I do not support abortions for birth control reasons. Only medical abortions that save the life of the mother.
That is not at all what he is saying. I know that is not what I am saying and I hope that medicine does advance to the point where medical abortions are no longer necessary. Right now, in order to save the life of the mother if the fetus or pregnancy is killing her, medical abortion is what we got, especially if the fetus is not to the point of viability.
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