The resurection at the time of great tribulation

[tailgator]

Daniel taught the resurrection takes place at the time of "Final Judgement" (The End)

"Every One That Is Written In The Book"

Can you not read or are you trying to rewrite Daniel?

Daniel says tribulation.Not final judgement.

If you cant read these two verses ,let me know and I will make arrangements to call you and read them to you.

"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.



No where in the book of Daniel ,is the term final judgement used.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I've noticed a couple people on this site are preaching christians who's names are written will be killed at the time of great tribulation.

Beware.

I have seen that you equate the great tribulation with God's wrath, so that should be clarified so that people know what you refer to when you refer to "great tribulation". Revelation 7 talks about Christians coming out of "great tribulation", but that is not referring to God's wrath, but rather from being persecuted and such. Christians experience great tribulation when being persecuted and killed, but they come out of it by having their souls and spirits go to be in heaven with the Lord. Are you sure they're not referring to that instead of to God's wrath?

So, who are these people? Do you have any quotes so we can see exactly what they are claiming? I'd like to know what their reasoning is if they think that Christians will be killed by God's wrath. Surely, Christians will not experience God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

 

[Scott Downey]

Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
They seem to forget that Satan also goes forth to make war with God's children during the 42 months granted him.
Which proves this is the great tribulation, since it is the 42 month period of time when Satan does this.
It is very clearly written.

This deeply challenges their belief structure, as they believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture of God's saints who are in Christ.

Revelation 12 clearly says this

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus taught the exact same things Daniel wrote about and the order in which they take place.​

​

First,the persecution of christians in Israel by the beast as in Daniel 11:33-35

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.


Then Israel is attacked by the nations and overcome .Takes place in Daniel 11:40.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.





Followed by great tribulation with perplexity as in Daniel 12:1

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.




And that is when Christ comes and raises the dead in Daniel 12:2.



Luke 21
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.





The old testament prophets wrote of the same events found in the new testament.These same events are also seen in revelation .The key to knowledge is studying them all and running to and from through scripture.

Daniel 12:4​

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.​

People who reject the old testament prophets are simply rejecting knowledge.Its their own lose.

I agree that Daniel 12:1-2 is seen in the New Testament John 5:28-29, however you hide the fact that the "Final Judgement" is seen as the "Book Of Life" is opened (The End)

The "Final Judgement" The End, The Book Of Life Is Opened

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:12KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
They seem to forget that Satan also goes forth to make war with God's children during the 42 months granted him.
Which proves this is the great tribulation, since it is the 42 month period of time when Satan does this.
It is very clearly written.

Revelation 12 clearly says this

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

Actually, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago already, but we don't have to discuss that here. You're right that we have to differentiate between God's wrath and Satan's wrath, though. Are you one of those people he is talking about? Did he misunderstand you to be talking about God's wrath instead of Satan's wrath as it relates to Christians? I'm just wondering what he is referring to exactly in his original post.

 

[Truth7t7]

Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
They seem to forget that Satan also goes forth to make war with God's children during the 42 months granted him.
Which proves this is the great tribulation, since it is the 42 month period of time when Satan does this.
It is very clearly written.

This deeply challenges their belief structure, as they believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture of God's saints who are in Christ.

Revelation 12 clearly says this

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

God's "Two Witnesses" Rule The World During The Future Great Tribulation​

Many put the future (Man Of Sin) (The Beast) as the ruler of earth during the 3.5 year tribulation "wrong"!

It will be God's (Two Witnesses) that rule in bringing all plagues in torturing the evil world, a literal remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, God's in control!

Revelation 11:3-6 & 10KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Future (Two Witnesses) "All Plagues" As Often As They Will Representing "God"

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[Scott Downey]

Right. So, are you one of those people he is talking about? Did he misunderstand you to be talking about God's wrath instead of Satan's wrath as it relates to Christians? I'm just wondering what he is referring to exactly in his original post.

All he was saying is Christians won't be around for the great tribulation, being delivered from it by God and trying to use Daniel to support the idea..

 

[Truth7t7]

Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
They seem to forget that Satan also goes forth to make war with God's children during the 42 months granted him.
Which proves this is the great tribulation, since it is the 42 month period of time when Satan does this.
It is very clearly written.

This deeply challenges their belief structure, as they believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture of God's saints who are in Christ.

Revelation 12 clearly says this

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

The Future Great Tribulation Is 3.5 Years Long, The Beast And Two Witnesses Will Be On This Earth In Power Until The End​

The book of Revelation is seen in "Parallel" teachings of same events, not "Chronological" as dispensationalism falsely teaches

Example: Revelation 11:18 Is The One And Only Final Judgement, A Parallel Teaching Of Revelation 20:11-15 in Final Judgement

"Fact" The Scripture Below Teaches (The Beast) and (Two Witnesses) Are On This Earth Together To See The "Last Day" Where The 7th Angel Sounds (The End) In Final Judgement

You clearly see in Revelation 13:5 that (The Beast) is given 42 months/3.5 years

Revelation 13:5KJV
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

You clearly see in Revelation 11:3 that the (Two Witnesses) are given 1260 days/3.5 years

Revelation 11:3KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

You see (The Beast) killing the (Two Witnesses) upon this earth Rev 11:7, both were given 3.5 years of power, you see the (Two Witnesses) laying dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days in the street as the world celebrates, you see the (Two Witnesses) raised to heaven as the 2nd woe in the Great earthquake takes place, the 3rd woe comes quickly in the 7th angel sounding (The End) Revelation 11:18 the final judgment (The End)

Conclusion: (The Beast) and (Two Witnesses) are present upon earth in power for the exact same time of 3.5 years in "Parallel" and this time ends in the 7th angel sounding in the second coming final judgment (The End)

Revelation 11:7-18KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

The woman in Revelation 12:6 represents the "Remnant Church" seen in Roman's chapter 11, they will be in Israel's wilderness during the 1260 day tribulation, as Jerusalem is in desolation

You will closely note Micah 7:13-18 is a detailed description of Revelation 12:6, the Remnant will be in the wilderness of Carmel, Bashan, and Gilead, they will be fed "Manna" from heaven as in the days of coming out of Egypt, the world will watch in "Fear" of the Lord's power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:13-18KJV
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Scott Downey]

And here is another verse about our final deliverance from evil, guess when it happens!
We are taught this in several places, here is one.
Hebrews 9
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Our salvation occurs on the Last day from being in this evil and wicked world of that time (for us who remain alive until His returning)
Same thing for example true of Lot and Noah which Christ uses as examples of His returning and destruction of the world.
Peter calls it a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Luke 17
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.

23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them.

24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day.

25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;

29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All he was saying is Christians won't be around for the great tribulation, being delivered from it by God and trying to use Daniel to support the idea..

Right, but he doesn't define what he thinks the great tribulation entails exactly, so, without defining terms the discussion becomes pointless.

 

[tailgator]

Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan.
They seem to forget that Satan also goes forth to make war with God's children during the 42 months granted him.
Which proves this is the great tribulation, since it is the 42 month period of time when Satan does this.
It is very clearly written.

This deeply challenges their belief structure, as they believe in a pre-tribulation or mid-tribulation rapture of God's saints who are in Christ.

Revelation 12 clearly says this

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven​

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

The Woman Persecuted​

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus [c]Christ.


Rev 13
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to [c]continue for forty-two months.

6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every [d]tribe, tongue, and nation.

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the [e]patience and the faith of the saints.

Your teaching false doctrine still.Why do persistently reject the word of God and mislead other people?


This time of persecution is not great tribulation.Jesus does not call it great tribulation nor does Daniel

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.


While these christians in Israel are being persecuted and killed,you will still be spreading your false doctrine that the world will suffer great tribulation for 42 months .

Then when the actual great tribulation begins in Daniel 12:1,you will then realize the beast you were supporting all that time will be destroyed .



Daniel 12

"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

[tailgator]

All he was saying is Christians won't be around for the great tribulation, being delivered from it by God and trying to use Daniel to support the idea..

Christians in the middle east will be all that's left in the middle east after the great tribulation.Everyone else will have been destroyed.

 

[tailgator]

I agree that Daniel 12:1-2 is seen in the New Testament John 5:28-29, however you hide the fact that the "Final Judgement" is seen as the "Book Of Life" is opened (The End)

The "Final Judgement" The End, The Book Of Life Is Opened

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:12KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Daniel 12:1 is talking about Daniels people.
Not the Chinese in China.Not Persians or South Africans .Daniel was not Chinese,He is an Israelite.

"at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

​

"thy people"​

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your teaching false doctrine still.Why do persistently reject the word of God and mislead other people?


This time of persecution is not great tribulation.Jesus does not call it great tribulation nor does Daniel

Stop your nonsense. A time of great tribulation can be both a time of God's wrath or a time of persecution depending on the context. So, don't act like great tribulation can only refer to God's wrath.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.


While these christians in Israel are being persecuted and killed,you will still be spreading your false doctrine that the world will suffer great tribulation for 42 months .

So, you think Christians being persecuted and killed is not great tribulation? What in the world? You are delusional. Clearly, great tribulation can refer to God's wrath or it can refer to persecution, depending on the context where it is used.

Then when the actual great tribulation begins in Daniel 12:1,you will then realize the beast you were supporting all that time will be destroyed .

The actual great tribulation? Who are you to decide what can be considered great tribulation or not? As if only one event can be great tribulation. As if Christians being killed is not also great tribulation rather than only God's wrath against unbelievers being great tribulation? What a joke.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Daniel 12

"there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

That great tribulation is referring to God's wrath. Did anyone say otherwise?

 

[tailgator]

That great tribulation is referring to God's wrath. Did anyone say otherwise?

Can you not read or your comprehension skillss lagging?

Scott Downey said
"Great tribulation includes both the wrath of God and the wrath of Satan."


Next time you respond to a comment ,try reading the discussion first.

 

[tailgator]

Stop your nonsense. A time of great tribulation can be both a time of God's wrath or a time of persecution depending on the context. So, don't act like great tribulation can only refer to God's wrath.


So, you think Christians being persecuted and killed is not great tribulation? What in the world? You are delusional. Clearly, great tribulation can refer to God's wrath or it can refer to persecution, depending on the context where it is used.


The actual great tribulation? Who are you to decide what can be considered great tribulation or not? As if only one event can be great tribulation. As if Christians being killed is not also great tribulation rather than only God's wrath against unbelievers being great tribulation? What a joke.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


That great tribulation is referring to God's wrath. Did anyone say otherwise?

As for the great tribulation.Jesus said when there is great tribulation and what causes it.

"distress of nations, with perplexity;" ​

Luke 21

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

"then shall be great tribulation"​

Mathew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

And I'm case you didn't notice,Jesus is quoting Daniel 12:1 in verse 21.

 

[Truth7t7]

Daniel 12:1 is talking about Daniels people.
Not the Chinese in China.Not Persians or South Africans .Daniel was not Chinese,He is an Israelite.

"at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

​

"thy people"​

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

The Book Of Life Is Opened (Once) At Te "Final Judgement (The End)

The "Final Judgement" The End, The Book Of Life Is Opened

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 20:12KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[tailgator]

The Book Of Life Is Opened (Once) At Te "Final Judgement (The End)

That would be 1000 years after Daniel's people are raised in Daniel 12:1

Daniel 12:1 is talking about Daniels people.
Not the Chinese in China.Not Persians or South Africans .Daniel was not Chinese,He is an Israelite.

"at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book."​

"thy people"​

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

[tailgator]

The Book Of Life Is Opened (Once) At Te "Final Judgement (The End)

If you were an Israelite,you may have considered remembering the Lord's Sabbath day .

But you don't consider keeping it at all.You skip it and go straight for the 8th day.