The Rapture Cover-up
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Did he have a measure of the Holy Spirit?
Is that what you are asking?
All kings are anointed by the prophet with oil.
Saul was as was David.
Maybe you can just say what you are getting at?
David said "take not thy HS from me."
David's anointing was prophet, priest and King.
Saul's was king and prophet.
Did he have the Holy Spirit?
Definately at first.
But later he fell.
So maybe that helps.
No doubt you got some smoking gun to make the parable say something.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"Not of (our) works lest anyone should boast."
revisit my previous post - ty
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
You notice the remedy was given to his people?
You notice "buy" is not actual buying?
You notice "gold" is not real gold?
Rich, white, eyesalve, seeing, nakedness are all symbolic?
"Buying" in the virgin parable is not actually buying.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
AGREE
Notice: JESUS gave to us the parable of the ten virgins
Notice what JESUS said thru the wise virgins: "GO BUY OIL for yourselves"
Notice it was too late for them = time had run out!!!
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
1 Thessalonians 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
You left out watch and be sober.
Also left out that we are not appointed to wrath.
Postribber rapture theory has no peace and safety when they say the rapture happens.
Thanks for sharing those verses pointing to a pretrib rapture.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Actually no.
The wise virgins told the foolish to go and buy from those who sell.
Both the foolish virgins as well as the lukewarm laodiceans were told to go and buy something.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
OK - Not a problem - let's LOOK again
JESUS gave to us the parable of the ten virgins
Notice what JESUS said thru the wise virgins: "go to those who sell.............BUY for YOURSELVES"
Here is the PROOF Text:
And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you;
but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’
SAME from Revelation = I counsel you to buy
Keep in mind that Matt 25:1-13 is a parable whereas Revelation is not, even though it uses real life objects in a symbolic way to speak of ETERNAL Blessing or CONSEQUENCES!!!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Really? If the day of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 indeed relates to a third coming, as most Pretribbers argue, and they relate this to the event of Revelation 19, then why is this describing the wicked, who are experiencing the tribulation period, as declaring “Peace and safety”? Surely this is a period of the wrath of God being poured out on all those left behind according to Pretrib theology?
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Both examples have the BELIEVER in the same sin.
Lukewarm and carnal.
But I know you need oil to not represent the Holy Spirit.
So you will never unpack what is actually going on.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
God's pure Word.
Some can not respect it.
Doctrine has them actually changing God's Holy Word.
My job..report what the Bible says.
Then folks go against the bible.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Good Morning,
You have forgotten my response to the 'oil' in Post 356
AND the fact that Solomon had oil in his lamp as well.
So, we who have FULL Oil in our Lamps can SEE that the Prophet/King David WARNED his son Solomon the SAME as JESUS is
WARNING us!!!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
@rebuilder 454
On another note - i recommend Panera Bread Steak & Egg on Chiabata breakfast sandwhich
On another note - i recommend Panera Bread Steak & Egg on Chiabata breakfast sandwhich
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
What if Elijah was Enoch after he was translated, and Elijah was Enoch who was sent to Israel after the Flood. It was the same translated body each time?
Elisha saw him leave that one time. Perhaps Elijah returned several times since then?
They never found the body of Moses either. That was probably back on Mount Sinai.
Flesh and blood is not ruling out a physical body. Don't you think Adam and Eve had physical bodies, prior to their souls being placed into corruption of the flesh and blood physical body bound by sin?
Adam and Eve literally physically died. They were translated from life to death, in the opposite direction of how Enoch was translated from death to life.
God did not nor does not have to re-invent the physical body. One is of death and corruption, the other is of life and incorruption.
Jesus always had the physical body of life and incorruption. That body works perfectly fine on earth and in heaven.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
This is not a Scriptural view. The OT redeemed, except for Enoch/Elijah & Moses, all waited in the "valley of the shadow of death", Jesus called "Abraham's bosom" until the Cross. They were across a gulf from sheol.
They did wait in Death, not receiving those promises, until their last day resurrection, the Cross. On the Cross, when Jesus declared it is finished, that was when the redeemed would no longer taste death, nor walk through the valley of the shadow of death any more.
"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly."
That was the case when the OT redeemed died. That was not the case after the Cross.
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:"
They could not receive the promise, until the Cross. That is when they received their inheritance in that heavenly country. They are physically enjoying Paradise.
Paul clears this up in Ephesians 4:7-12
"But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:"
The entire church was blessed at that point, not just those on earth. Jesus was to fill all things, even Paradise.
"And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."
Since the Cross, they have been made perfect in Paradise: see the next chapter
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
Those that have gone before including the entire OT assembly of faith have received those promises and are now that great cloud of witnesses (In Paradise).
They are serving God day and night in that heavenly temple in physical bodies: Revelation 7:9-10
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
That multitude has been there since Resurrection Sunday. And the NT congregation has joined them daily coming out of great tribulation, since the Cross. Some more tribulation than others. That has been the case since Cain killed Abel.
Did you not catch that part in Hebrews 11?
"and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Of whom the world was not worthy: they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth."
Both sides of the Cross has had the same issues of sin, death, and tribulation. However now since the Cross, the redeemed, those of faith, would not see death, nor taste death, because they all had died in Christ as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. But physical Paradise was no longer banned to Adam and his offspring. The obedience of Jesus on the Cross reversed the punishment of death, and now many were made alive, all those in Abraham's bosom.
Having been physically made alive, they are physically enjoying Paradise. Not tasting death any more.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That white robe is putting on the spirit, and being glorified.
It is not an "intermediate clothing". No one has put on the spirit, as that is the final transformation into a completed son of God.
One needs God's permanent incorruptible physical body, to be physically alive and not dead. One needs their spirit as John symbolized as a robe of white put on over the physical body to be spiritually alive.
That is the only thing that happens at the 5th Seal, and proves the rapture takes place prior to the final harvest. The final harvest are those people still on earth needing redemption, the church was told to wait a little while for, while they were "slain out of Adam's dead flesh".
In all of Scripture there is one single point of glorification of the entire church. If you miss the 5th Seal, and are on the earth, at that point you are not glorified nor part of the CHURCH.
You are a foolish person, and unless God has mercy on your soul, you will be deceived by Satan.
The 5th Seal is not the Great Tribulation. The 5th Seal is not about martyred souls being killed in a time of trouble.
The entire point of the 5th Seal is that the church is covered by the alter, and the Atonement Covenant provided by the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The entire church puts on the spirit and is glorified as a completed son of God: soul, body, and spirit are now joined as one individual. The soul has on a body, and the body has on the robe of white, the spirit. Then we will shine as the stars, like Jesus did on the mount of Transfiguration.
This is the point of Paul's rapture and the Second Coming of the 6th Seal. And all happens before the last Seal is opened, and any Trumpet has sounded.
That is the only point; we will be made like unto Christ: 1 John 3:2
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God (the second birth), and it doth not yet appear what we shall be (we are yet only flesh and blood): but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him (soul puts on body, puts on spirit); for we shall see him as he is."
This only applies to those on the earth. Those in Paradise already have the physical body. They don't have those robes yet, because that only happens at the rapture and Second Coming.
You may say: "John only sees the souls". No
"I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"
This is a spiritual view symbolic of the fact they are covered by the blood of the Lamb. John did not see literal souls under that alter in heaven slain. The majority were slain thousands of years ago, many before the Cross. He saw their bodies in the next chapter before the 7th Seal was opened. They had been serving God in that temple for 2 millennia, since the Cross. That is the literal view: having a physical body. A robe of white is not a physical body, any more than Paul saying death puts on life using Latin transliteration "mortal puts on immortality". Putting on life is being glorified as sons of God.
We will appear like Jesus the only begotten son of God. We cannot, here on earth appear that way. Both the permanent incorruptible physical body and the spirit are only in heaven.
Enoch put on the physical body when he was translated from death to life. But we are never told he was glorified. Moses upon being on Mount Sinai had his face so bright from the presence of God, he had to cover his face or would blind any one looking at his face. We are told that to look in the face of God would cause death. So only with the spirit can one truly look upon and communicate with God. Adam and Eve had on that spirit and did communicate with God. Then Adam and Eve found themselves naked without that spirit, when Adam disobeyed and they physically and spiritually were dead. They could not stay in the Garden in mortal flesh and blood. That is what Paul was speaking of, not that a physical body cannot enter Paradise. They have had that permanent incorruptible physical body since the OT redeemed, including Lazarus walked out of their graves in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Of course, since the Cross, that exchange of resurrection is in heaven, not on earth. We are not translated in view of others. The soul leaves one body and is instantly in the one in heaven. We don’t taste death, even if the pain is unbearable at that point. That is in fact being changed from corruptible to incorruptible. From a tent to a building not made of hands. From temporal to permanent.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
It is a metaphor. Neither are seeds sown into the ground. The body is not literally planted into the ground to grow into something different like a wheat sown is not the same as the stalk that comes out of the ground.
Paul is showing the drastic change, not stating that literally happens with a physical body.
Paul is not even implying that body will ever come out of the ground, because it will not. It returns to dust never to be seen again.
God is not the God of dead bodies in the ground. God gives all redeemed a totally different body when the soul leaves the old body, and immediately enters the eternal physical body. That is what Paul is saying, a totally different body altogether, and it is immediate, no waiting in the ground to see what eventually comes up. The body is not planted into the ground to produce a new body. That is only a metaphor.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"
Your paraphrase is horrible.
What does it mean a man may be spiritually or physically dead? There is no "may" in the future. All are in a state of death since conception.
Jesus is saying though all are dead, yet many will live and never die.
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