The Rapture Cover-up

[rebuilder 454]

My BROTHER,

i have been speaking directly with, in love, giving many many scriptures in the past with you as you well know.

Here are some questions that we may look into scripture for the answers:

Can you please post the scripture where JESUS said (any of the following):
a.) I will rapture my Elect/Bride/Church BEFORE the "Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel the Prophet"
b.) I will not permit My chosen/elect/saints/Bride/Church to suffer tribulation unto death.
c.) I will rapture my Bride/Saints/Elect/Church BEFORE the 'Day of Jacob's Trouble'.
d.) I have separated Jew from Gentile in the New Covenant
e.) My Saints/Elect/Redeemed Bride/Church will not see or face or suffer from the Antichrist

100% dodge.
Are you agreeing you have no verses?
Should be so easy, and a great opportunity to school me with all the myriad of verses?

Maybe just one?

 

[WPM]

Those left behind are half of a group.
You and Dave get together and respond to this challenge.;
What group is the " half taken" removed from? Should real easy since you both are experts.
You made a claim half of the earth is unbelievers , correct?
Remember, we have half taken postrib, and half left behind in both Mathew 25 and 24..

You are not getting the thrust. Your hyper-literal approach to a figurative depiction is causing you to miss the message. That is whi I presented the questions above and that is why you continually avoid them. You cherry-pick what you want to be literal to suit your doctrine. That is eisegesis. It is butchering the Word of God. It is manipulating God's Book to fit your own preconceived teaching. It is wrong.

This is what people do when they have no proof-texts. You're absolutely bereft of any biblical support for your theory.

 

[David in NJ]

How does oil apply in the parable as a type?
I am astonished you recognized the typology.
Then tell me how oil would be impossible as a type in the virgin parable.
(The believers having the same oil as unbelievers..but more of it.)

Keep in mind, all postribbers to date have changed the parable.

Do you remember this scripture that i gave to you?: 1 Chronicles 28:9

“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Did Solomon have 'oil in his lamp'???

YES or NO

Matt 5:37 - "Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one."

 

[rebuilder 454]

rebuilder 454: "we learned and you applauded that oil can not possibly represent the Holy Spirit"

Oil absolutely can be symbolic of the Holy Spirit = which i believe!

@WPM and i often times disagree on certain things but we do not berate one another

His exposure of the failure of pre-trib to submit to the examination of scripture in just one post (339)
is one of the most thorough(in explanation and scripture) i have seen on here.

You also have posted some pure truth on here as well.

BEST part is that we get to interact and examine Scripture!

Quote;
"His exposure of the failure of pre-trib to
submit to the examination of scripture in just one post (339)
is one of the most thorough(in explanation and scripture) i have seen on here."

Huh???
Point to a single thing he said that proves anything at all.
Look at his unpacking;
" go ye out" ,means escape
"Come in", means enter
" the foolish were unprepared"

Everyone know that.
Take a look at the elephant in the room

You guys need the OPPOSITE setting of EVERY rapture verse. Including the virgin parable.
Every rapture verse is peacetime, normal life, and commerce.
Why does Jesus hammer that point???
You guys can not possibly explain the obvious.
Your entire contention is " it just would not be what I think is correct for the bride to be taken pretrib.
No verses...just what it SEEMS RIGHT to postribbers.
...against the words of Jesus.

 

[David in NJ]

Quote;
"His exposure of the failure of pre-trib to
submit to the examination of scripture in just one post (339)
is one of the most thorough(in explanation and scripture) i have seen on here."

Huh???
Point to a single thing he said that proves anything at all.
Look at his unpacking;
" go ye out" ,means escape
"Come in", means enter
" the foolish were unprepared"

Everyone know that.
Take a look at the elephant in the room

You guys need the OPPOSITE setting of EVERY rapture verse. Including the virgin parable.
Every rapture verse is peacetime, normal life, and commerce.
Why does Jesus hammer that point???
You guys can not possibly explain the obvious.
Your entire contention is " it just would not be what I think is correct for the bride to be taken pretrib.
No verses...just what it SEEMS RIGHT to postribbers.
...against the words of Jesus.

i will reply later, have to go now as work calls

Shalom my Brother in Chriist

 

[rebuilder 454]

You are not getting the thrust. Your hyper-literal approach to a figurative depiction is causing you to miss the message. That is whi I presented the questions above and that is why you continually avoid them. You cherry-pick what you want to be literal to suit your doctrine. That is eisegesis. It is butchering the Word of God. It is manipulating God's Book to fit your own preconceived teaching. It is wrong.

This is what people do when they have no proof-texts. You're absolutely bereft of any biblical support for your theory.

Just tell Jesus to stay away from any numbers.
He claimed half "taken/ left" twice.

You are without any answers.
The Bible says few enter the narrow gate.
Many enter destruction
( maybe disregard that also)

You claim to be expert, and yet the Bible testifies you are greatly in error.

That " half taken/ left deal alone destroys postrib rapture"
So simple so plain.
I do see yalls frustration.
Pssst....that means the foolish virgins can not possibly be unbelievers.
Nor can they be that group in mat 24 taken/ left before the flood.

Pretrib rapture fits like a basket weave.
Only doctrine that fits the rapture verses.

 

[WPM]

Quote;

Every rapture verse is peacetime, normal life, and commerce.
Why does Jesus hammer that point???
You guys can not possibly explain the obvious.
Your entire contention is " it just would not be what I think is correct for the bride to be taken pretrib.
No verses...just what it SEEMS RIGHT to postribbers.
...against the words of Jesus.

Really? If the day of the Lord in 1 Thessalonians 5:3 indeed relates to a third coming, as most Pretribbers argue, and they relate this to the event of Revelation 19, then why is this describing the wicked, who are experiencing the tribulation period, as declaring “Peace and safety”? Surely this is a period of the wrath of God being poured out on all those left behind according to Pretrib theology?

 

[WPM]

Just tell Jesus to stay away from any numbers.
He claimed half "taken/ left" twice.

You are without any answers.
The Bible says few enter the narrow gate.
Many enter destruction
( maybe disregard that also)

You claim to be expert, and yet the Bible testifies you are greatly in error.

That " half taken/ left deal alone destroys postrib rapture"
So simple so plain.
I do see yalls frustration.
Pssst....that means the foolish virgins can not possibly be unbelievers.
Nor can they be that group in mat 24 taken/ left before the flood.

Pretrib rapture fits like a basket weave.
Only doctrine that fits the rapture verses.

More avoidance. Zero Scripture quoted. Zero exegesis. That is because your doctrine does not abide biblical scrutiny.

 

[IndianaRob]

I’ll say it again, the parable of the 10 virgins is about JEWISH people under the law entering into the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH that Jesus brought in.

There is no tribulation and there is no “rapture” if the parable.

Where did y’all come up with this idea because it most certainly didn’t come from reading the parable.

 

[rebuilder 454]

More avoidance. Zero Scripture quoted. Zero exegesis. That is because your doctrine does not abide biblical scrutiny.

I brought the numbers / variable to the table.
You could not answer.
It is your avoidance thingy.
Then accuse me of what we all see you doing.
Just say you don't know instead of some false avoidance accusation towards the guy you can't answer.
I think you painted yourself into a corner with " half earth's population is unbelievers" deal.

All false doctrine piggy backs on one or more impossibilities.
That is the protection built into the bible

Half taken/ left can ONLY MEAN half of a segment of earth's population.
It can not possible be half the entire population. ( As postribbers erroneously imply).
Postrib rapture is poorly thought out.
Has not a chance once we Crack a bible.

 

[WPM]

I brought the numbers / variable to the table.
You could not answer.
It is your avoidance thingy.
Then accuse me of what we all see you doing.
Just say you don't know instead of some false avoidance accusation towards the guy you can't answer.
I think you painted yourself into a corner with " half earth's population is unbelievers" deal.

All false doctrine piggy backs on one or more impossibilities.
That is the protection built into the bible

Half taken/ left can ONLY MEAN half of a segment of earth's population.
It can not possible be half the entire population. ( As postribbers erroneously imply).
Postrib rapture is poorly thought out.
Has not a chance once we Crack a bible.

You do not seem to have a clue what parables are. They are earthly stories that are teaching spiritual truths. You're hyper-literal interpretation is shown to be hypocritical when I put other hyper-literal scenarios to you pertaining to the 10 virgins. That is because your doctrine is based on manipulating Scripture to make it say what you want.

Do you have to be a virgin to be a Christian? Do you have to be a virgin to make the rapture? Do you have to be a literal virgin with a literal lamp with literal oil in it to make the rapture? Are there only five virgins that make the rapture?

Your reasoning is ridiculous. It is a joke. That is all you have - futility, silly theories and invented types.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Do you remember this scripture that i gave to you?: 1 Chronicles 28:9

“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

Did Solomon have 'oil in his lamp'???

YES or NO

Matt 5:37 - "Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one."

Solomon came under David.
That was a "side covenant" between God and David concerning David's descendants.
In fact when Soloman sinned God told him he would have cut Him off, it it were not for his daddy David. ( referring to that covenant with David's descendants).

 

[rebuilder 454]

You do not seem to have a clue what parables are. They are earthly stories that are teaching spiritual truths. You're hyper-literal interpretation is shown to be hypocritical when I put other hyper-literal scenarios to you pertaining to the 10 virgins. That is because your doctrine is based on manipulating Scripture to make it say what you want.

Do you have to be a virgin to be a Christian? Do you have to be a virgin to make the rapture? Do you have to be a literal virgin with a literal lamp with literal oil in it to make the rapture? Are there only five virgins that make the rapture?

Your reasoning is ridiculous. It is a joke. That is all you have - futility, silly theories and invented types.

Got you all frustrated over the components of the parable.
It reads and reports so simple and vivid.
Sorry your doctrine needs it changed.
We all know what a parable is.
The problem for you is the changes you need

.
Your doctrine did that to you

 

[David in NJ]

Solomon came under David.
That was a "side covenant" between God and David concerning David's descendants.
In fact when Soloman sinned God told him he would have cut Him off, it it were not for his daddy David. ( referring to that covenant with David's descendants).

Well, for sure Solomon sinned - and we know how/why = Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

The WARNING to Solomon is not about the sins which all of us have fallen to but rather a DEPARTURE from God whereby God casts out the individual = FOREVER

JESUS warned the Laeodecian church (and us) of the very same thing: Rev 3:14-22
“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

 

[WPM]

Got you all frustrated over the components of the parable.
It reads and reports so simple and vivid.
Sorry your doctrine needs it changed.
We all know what a parable is.
The problem for you is the changes you need

.
Your doctrine did that to you

No frustration. Just exposing your erroneous Jesuit doctrine. More avoidance! That is all you have. That there and ad hominem.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You do not seem to have a clue what parables are. They are earthly stories that are teaching spiritual truths. You're hyper-literal interpretation is shown to be hypocritical when I put other hyper-literal scenarios to you pertaining to the 10 virgins. That is because your doctrine is based on manipulating Scripture to make it say what you want.

Do you have to be a virgin to be a Christian? Do you have to be a virgin to make the rapture? Do you have to be a literal virgin with a literal lamp with literal oil in it to make the rapture? Are there only five virgins that make the rapture?

Your reasoning is ridiculous. It is a joke. That is all you have - futility, silly theories and invented types.

Yeah.
Whooda thought that oil represents the Holy Spirit?
Just a coincidence that Christians have oil, light, and are vessels containing the Holy Spirit, waiting and watching for Jesus.
No connection at all...wink wink.
Just a coincidence that virgins are pure, set apart and undefiled as are believers.
Just a coincidence right?
Just a coincidence that a parable about a bridegroom would connect to a bride and wedding.
All just a big misunderstanding to you.
It is just a big misunderstanding in the postribber workbook

I get a chuckle over you guys stumbling over that parable.
In the postribber workbook it needs to be the " twilight zone parable"
" where nothing is as it seems"
SPOOOOKY!!!!!.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Well, for sure Solomon sinned - and we know how/why = Romans 3:23
"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"

This verse and WARNING is not about the sins which all of us have fallen to but rather a DEPARTURE from God whereby God casts out the individual.

JESUS warned the Laeodecian church (and us) of the very same thing: Rev 3:14-22
“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ”

Is that supposed to prove something?
Both sides of the debate believe all that.

 

[David in NJ]

Is that supposed to prove something?
Both sides of the debate believe all that.

Well, you never answered the question:
Did Solomon have "oil" from the Lord?

YES or NO

 

[rebuilder 454]

No frustration. Just exposing your erroneous Jesuit doctrine. More avoidance! That is all you have. That there and ad hominem.

That is the second post where you can not rise to the simple challenge.
I guess you simply have no postrib rapture verses.
I asked you ( or any postribber) to post one, and all you did was go off on some side issue.
Maybe one of your colleagues has a verse.
You better sit this one out friend.
I understand how you feel.
Trying to find a postrib rapture verse is like trying to find teeth on a chicken.

 

[David in NJ]

I gave the answer in the post I made. Are those people saved, do they have the fruits of the spirit? No they don’t.

I’m suspecting that maybe your a works salvation believer.

You said that if we love one another we have the fruits of the spirit.
Those people love one another - JESUS said they do!!!

We absolutely are SAVED by works!!!
Only by His Finished Work on the Cross

Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.


If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and [f]believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”


Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”