The Rapture Cover-up

[Ronald Nolette]

Please read carefully 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Shalom

I have read and taught this passage for decades. What point are you trying to bring out?

 

[MA2444]

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Was the place prepared at the crucifixtion?
When Jesus said “I will come again” was he talking about the resurrection or 2000 years down the road?

that's one of those things that we might have to wait to find out what the truth is about it I guess. I know what I believe but it aint so until it happens, right? Lol.

I've heard Testimonies where people said they got to go visit their new house! And why should I doubt them? I understand you can see a euphenism in it about it means the crucifixion, but I dont think so. He was teaching about the end times.

And does God make bad decisions? I would say no. It's written, Because God Loved the world, He let His only Son die so that you may live. And Jesus Himself loves you enough that...He gave up His life for you. Jesus said He could cll 12 Legions of Angels and they would save Him, right? But He didnt! Love kept Him on that cross. Love for you. Love for me.

God made a huge investment in you! Can you see that? Again, does God make poor decisions?! No way. Ok, we have that established. You on the same page with me? How much God really loves you?

So do you really think that, knowing how much the Lord loves you...that He would take you to a gang fight and let you get beat up? His Fiance? Let her get beat up along with the evil unbelievers?! That is hilariously funny to me!

The answer is no. Go hide yourself from the bad things that I will punish the world with He said in Isaiah 26.20-21
That is the Lord I know and I barely even know Him! But from what I have seen, He is more righteous and more loving than us. Love God, Love your neighbor....God is love. His ways & thoughts are way above ours.

Would you do that to your Fiance/Wife/Family? You have a place that you could take them to be safe because say for example, the city is burning down. You can stay with them or take them away. What would you do for yours?
If you wouldnt make your Fiance stay in a burning city instead of leaving with her, then how much moreso God?

See what I mean? We dont even need doctrine to figure this out. All you need to know is about the Love of the Lord. If we being men wouldnt give our sons a snake when they ask for a fish, then why would God?

 

[David in NJ]

I have read and taught this passage for decades. What point are you trying to bring out?

What occurs FIRST?
a.) Resurrection of the "dead in Christ"
b.) Rapture of the remaining alive saints on earth

 

[David in NJ]

It's not an assumption. Just read the text and it's clear as can be that the rapture occurs at His second coming. It's not up for debate.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


LOL. Ridiculous. How can "the coming of the Lord" not be the second coming? Give me a break with this nonsense.


I am letting it say what it is. It's referring to "the coming of the Lord" when He descends from heaven. If that isn't the second coming then I don't know what is.

LOL. Ridiculous. How can "the coming of the Lord" not be the second coming? Give me a break with this nonsense.

SEE - The "nonsense" comment is appropriate when what they post is completely contrary to the words of the LORD and the Apostles.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL x100 and i AGREE


True, but you better make 1000% sure that you are being directed by the Lord to do so otherwise................judgment on YOU!!!

I have no concern about that. But, thanks for your concern.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did Jesus not come to you at salvation? Does Jesus not come for us at our death?

No point in going on with this, you have your view and I have mine that’s just the way it is.

What is indicated in 1 Thess 4:14-17 is that all believers are caught up to meet Christ at the same time. That is obvious. I don't know who taught you the nonsense that you believe, but your view is far from the truth.

 

[IndianaRob]

that's one of those things that we might have to wait to find out what the truth is about it I guess. I know what I believe but it aint so until it happens, right? Lol.

I've heard Testimonies where people said they got to go visit their new house! And why should I doubt them? I understand you can see a euphenism in it about it means the crucifixion, but I dont think so. He was teaching about the end times.

And does God make bad decisions? I would say no. It's written, Because God Loved the world, He let His only Son die so that you may live. And Jesus Himself loves you enough that...He gave up His life for you. Jesus said He could cll 12 Legions of Angels and they would save Him, right? But He didnt! Love kept Him on that cross. Love for you. Love for me.

God made a huge investment in you! Can you see that? Again, does God make poor decisions?! No way. Ok, we have that established. You on the same page with me? How much God really loves you?

So do you really think that, knowing how much the Lord loves you...that He would take you to a gang fight and let you get beat up? His Fiance? Let her get beat up along with the evil unbelievers?! That is hilariously funny to me!

The answer is no. Go hide yourself from the bad things that I will punish the world with He said in Isaiah 26.20-21
That is the Lord I know and I barely even know Him! But from what I have seen, He is more righteous and more loving than us. Love God, Love your neighbor....God is love. His ways & thoughts are way above ours.

Would you do that to your Fiance/Wife/Family? You have a place that you could take them to be safe because say for example, the city is burning down. You can stay with them or take them away. What would you do for yours?
If you wouldnt make your Fiance stay in a burning city instead of leaving with her, then how much moreso God?

See what I mean? We dont even need doctrine to figure this out. All you need to know is about the Love of the Lord. If we being men wouldnt give our sons a snake when they ask for a fish, then why would God?

I agree with you, I believe has been protecting us and always will but this has nothing do white what Paul is teaching.

Paul is teaching that when the Lord comes to take you home then you will be caught in the air and so shall you ever be with the Lord.

When you die, you go straight to heaven to be with the Lord. That being the case you aren’t “the dead in Christ” your alive in Christ with Christ.

 

[IndianaRob]

What is indicated in 1 Thess 4:14-17 is that all believers are caught up to meet Christ at the same time. That is obvious. I don't know who taught you the nonsense that you believe, but your view is far from the truth.

What in the grammar and sentence structure makes it a corporate meeting?

 

[IndianaRob]

The Lord Jesus Christ has already raised me up in Newness of Life when i was Born-Again by the Spirit of God.

Where does your physical/flesh body go when you die?

David when you die and go to heaven, in your view you would be the “dead in Christ”.

That being said, you (the dead in Christ) are going to rise first, then those that are alive and remain are going to meet you in the air.

If you’re alive in heaven then how are you being raised from the dead?

Are you considering your dead body to the real you?

I really do not understand this reasoning at all, please explain how it works.

 

[MA2444]

I agree with you, I believe has been protecting us and always will but this has nothing do white what Paul is teaching.

Paul is teaching that when the Lord comes to take you home then you will be caught in the air and so shall you ever be with the Lord.

When you die, you go straight to heaven to be with the Lord. That being the case you aren’t “the dead in Christ” your alive in Christ with Christ.

It has everything to do with it.

He goes to prepare a place for us.
He comes back for us and so shall we ever be with Him so we go to the place that He has prepared for us.
And we return with Him later to the earth, He comes with the Saints.

Jesus said I am the God of the living. Let the dead bury the dead! Yep.

 

[David in NJ]

David when you die and go to heaven, in your view you would be the “dead in Christ”.

That being said, you (the dead in Christ) are going to rise first, then those that are alive and remain are going to meet you in the air.

If you’re alive in heaven then how are you being raised from the dead?

Are you considering your dead body to the real you?

I really do not understand this reasoning at all, please explain how it works.

Excellent questions, which i appreciate - thank you!

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Apostle Paul is addressing to saints in Thessalonica(and us today) what happens to those believers/saints who have died.

The term 'died in Christ' signifies that they were SAVED when their physical/flesh bodies died.
As you know, their spirit/soul went UP to the Lord Jesus Christ = verses 13 & 14

"I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus."

The 'REAL YOU' is your spirit/soul that is in CHRIST = verse 14 = "God will bring with Him those who sleep(died) in Jesus"

The Lord Jesus Christ is the "Firsfruits" of the Adamic race(Mankind) to RISE from the dead unto IMMORTALITY = 1 Cor 15:20
"But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep(died).
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive"

Just as Christ's physical body rose from the dead, so also will our physical bodies come out of the graves.
When they do, God will instantaneously TRANSFORM those bodies into GLORIFIED IMMORTAL bodies = 1 Cor 15:42

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam a life-giving spirit.

 

[Douggg]

1Corinthians15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

 

[Phoneman777]

It is very relevant. To use your words, when a person dies, their bodies goes to the grave but their soul and spirit go to be with teh Lord if saved or to the place of torments if they are not saved.

I agree "the Spirit returns to God Who gave it" but what leads you to believe the "soul" goes to be with the Lord?

BTW - the Soul begins to exist when the Body and Spirit unite so it can't continue to exist when these disjoin.

 

[IndianaRob]

When they do, God will instantaneously TRANSFORM those bodies into GLORIFIED IMMORTAL bodies = 1 Cor 15:42

So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam a life-giving spirit.

Did you know the translators added “the body” to the verse you quoted. The Greek word there is ambiguous as to what is being sown.

spi'-ro - Probably strengthened from G4685 (through the idea of extending); to scatter, that is, sow (literally or figuratively): - sow (-er), receive seed.

The KJV translators did not add their interpretation when they translated spiro so they rightfully translated spiro “it” so that the reader can discover what “it” is.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

I’ve brought this passage up before in other threads to try and show that the “it” is the soul and not the earthly body. It’s easily provable, just substitute whatever you think “it” is and see what makes the most sense.

The “it” is the soul, not the body.

 

[David in NJ]

Did you know the translators added “the body” to the verse you quoted. The Greek word there is ambiguous as to what is being sown.

spi'-ro - Probably strengthened from G4685 (through the idea of extending); to scatter, that is, sow (literally or figuratively): - sow (-er), receive seed.

The KJV translators did not add their interpretation when they translated spiro so they rightfully translated spiro “it” so that the reader can discover what “it” is.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

I’ve brought this passage up before in other threads to try and show that the “it” is the soul and not the earthly body. It’s easily provable, just substitute whatever you think “it” is and see what makes the most sense.

The “it” is the soul, not the body.

"soul" would be incorrect AND a falsehood/lie

Now the question is: What makes replacing 'body' with 'soul' a very serious error/lie???

Shalom

 

[IndianaRob]

"soul" would be incorrect AND a falsehood/lie

Now the question is: What makes replacing 'body' with 'soul' a very serious error/lie???

Shalom

How can it be error? The soul is the bare seed planted in this corruptible body. Are you saying the human body is the bare grain?

 

[David in NJ]

How can it be error? The soul is the bare seed planted in this corruptible body. Are you saying the human body is the bare grain?

1.) What is the MAIN/DIRECT subject being expressed by the Holy Spirit in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Cor chapter 15???

a.) Resurrection from the grave/earth

b.) the soul

2.) When JESUS says: "IAM the Resurrection"; What is HE immediately speaking of???

a.) the physical body that dies

b.) the soul

 

[MA2444]

1.) What is the MAIN/DIRECT subject being expressed by the Holy Spirit in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Cor chapter 15???

a.) Resurrection from the grave/earth

b.) the soul

2.) When JESUS says: "IAM the Resurrection"; What is HE immediately speaking of???

a.) the physical body that dies

b.) the soul

It sounds like you are saying that our soul is our body. That is incorrect. The soul lives inside of the body and is attached to the spirit. It is distinctly seperate from the body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ..../KJV

Our soul is attached semi permenantly to our spirit.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..../KJV

 

[David in NJ]

It sounds like you are saying that our soul is our body. That is incorrect. The soul lives inside of the body and is attached to the spirit. It is distinctly seperate from the body.

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ..../KJV

Our soul is attached semi permenantly to our spirit.

Hebrews 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..../KJV

It sounds like you are saying that our soul is our body.

This is false and i AGREE with the accuracy of Truth from the Holy Scripture which you replied with.

It is our Brother @IndianaRob who believes "the soul is the body".

Thus the questions that i presented.

Based on this evidence, what are the correct answers to the two questions?

 

[David in NJ]

i have to go now.

@MA2444 @IndianaRob @David in NJ

May the God of Peace sanctify our hearts, Today, in the LORD Jesus Christ.