The Rapture Cover-up

[Phoneman777]

Yes, the kingdom of heaven inside is, not heaven where God is.

It's both: the "spiritual" kingdom is inside, but the literal, tangible, glorified kingdom which is the same...is somewhere beyond Orion, I think.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

People please stop spreading the rapture heresy.

The rapture is a lie and it’s covering up one of the most important and uplifting doctrines in the Bible. That doctrine is BELIEVERS IN CHRIST NEVER DIE.

Enoch is the model for how all believers leave this world. ENOCH DIED but he did not SEE his death because he was taken to heaven and then his body fell to the ground DEAD.

We’re told in Hebrews that Enoch did not SEE death.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then a few verses later we are told that ENOCH DIED along with all the other saints mentioned in Hebrews 11.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

We should comfort one another with these words not turn those words into a lie.

Believers physically die. Graveyardsa of churches bear absolute testimony of that.

Enoch was a type of the rapture.

In thess. Paul gave us the order of the rapture or the great snatching up.

1. the physically dead are risen from their graves and their spirits and souls are reunited with their now glorified body.
2. those alive when Jesus descends into the atmosphere will be caught up and translated to meet the Lord in the air!


when our bodies die- we abesnt our bodies and go to be with teh Lord. Teh body goes down but our souls and spirits go up! At the rapture as defined in Thess. and 1 Cor. 15 we are reunited with out body who taste death because of sin.

 

[Phoneman777]

Teh body goes down but our souls and spirits go up! At the rapture as defined in Thess. and 1 Cor. 15 we are reunited with out body who taste death because of sin.

The spirits go up (Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV) but the soul goes down - Jesus' "soul" was not "left in hell".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The spirits go up (Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV) but the soul goes down - Jesus' "soul" was not "left in hell".

YOu forget thatr Hebrew did not have a separate word for a person soul.

But We learned man was trichotomous in the NT

Pneuma=spirit
pseuche= soul
soma= body.

In Hebrew Nephesh was teh body though translated many times as soul

 

[David in NJ]

People please stop spreading the rapture heresy.

The rapture is a lie and it’s covering up one of the most important and uplifting doctrines in the Bible. That doctrine is BELIEVERS IN CHRIST NEVER DIE.

Enoch is the model for how all believers leave this world. ENOCH DIED but he did not SEE his death because he was taken to heaven and then his body fell to the ground DEAD.

We’re told in Hebrews that Enoch did not SEE death.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Then a few verses later we are told that ENOCH DIED along with all the other saints mentioned in Hebrews 11.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

We should comfort one another with these words not turn those words into a lie.

Enoch's body is in stasis waiting for his return.

Enoch's spirit/soul is in Heaven with the LORD.

 

[David in NJ]

Enoch is the example. Enoch was taken to heaven yet Enoch died. How did the writer of Hebrews know Enoch died? Because people witnessed his dead body.

Enoch did not die.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm guesing that half of Christians will be hind. Because the parable of the foolish virgins. Five were wise and were ready, five were foolish and not ready.

Those left behind may still get saved but will prolly be martyred. Revelation says something about these are those who cane through great tribulation. (The souls under God's throne/altar?)

There is not one verse of scripture where the LORD leaves behind a single Saint, when HE Returns.

The "five foolish virgins" are forever cast OUT.

“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’
But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

 

[David in NJ]

HEBREWS 9:28
KJ21
so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto those who look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin, unto salvation.
Jesus will rapture those that believe and are looking for Him and if you are not looking for Him you are not going==all your choice.Those that reject and are not looking for the rapture get to be left behind for seven years of the great tribulation!!!==NO FUN!!

There is not one verse of scripture where the LORD leaves behind a single Saint, when HE Returns.
The "five foolish virgins" are forever cast OUT.

“Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’
But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.’

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven."

 

[David in NJ]

Those that reject and are not looking for the rapture get to be left behind for seven years of the great tribulation!!!

Pre-Trib rapture: Fairy Tales from 'doctors of divinity'

 

[Phoneman777]

YOu forget thatr Hebrew did not have a separate word for a person soul.

But We learned man was trichotomous in the NT

Pneuma=spirit
pseuche= soul
soma= body.

In Hebrew Nephesh was teh body though translated many times as soul

Not sure why that's relevant. The "soul" in Hebrew means "life" or "whole being" - never "disembodied ghost that flies off at death".

 

[IndianaRob]

Enoch did not die.

I know a lot of people believe that but the book of Hebrews is crystal clear that all those in chapter 11 including Enoch died.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 

[MA2444]

I know a lot of people believe that but the book of Hebrews is crystal clear that all those in chapter 11 including Enoch died.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Elijah didnt die either. He was taken up in a chariot of fire. Did God toss hs dead body over the side before his spirit got to heaven?!

I think not. When you read the bible brother you have to keep in mind that the book is instructions to Us. Not instuctions to God. God is not bound by our rules, lol.

God can do whatever He wants to and to whoever He wants to no matter what scripture says, unless scripture says that God will not do this or that. (Like God said, I will no more flood the earth totally anymore...

Scripture says it is appointed unto man to die once and then the Judgment. It doesnt say, and God is subject to this also to never take a man without death. He will do as He pleases.

 

[IndianaRob]

Elijah didnt die either. He was taken up in a chariot of fire. Did God toss hs dead body over the side before his spirit got to heaven?!

I think not. When you read the bible brother you have to keep in mind that the book is instructions to Us. Not instuctions to God. God is not bound by our rules, lol.

God can do whatever He wants to and to whoever He wants to no matter what scripture says, unless scripture says that God will not do this or that. (Like God said, I will no more flood the earth totally anymore...

Scripture says it is appointed unto man to die once and then the Judgment. It doesnt say, and God is subject to this also to never take a man without death. He will do as He pleases.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Enoch and Elijah’s body were flesh and blood so why would you think their flesh and blood bodies went to heaven?

 

[IndianaRob]

Enoch's body is in stasis waiting for his return.

Enoch's spirit/soul is in Heaven with the LORD.

How do you understand this verse?

2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Enoch is immortal in heaven but immortality can’t come until we’ve been “clothed upon” with the immortal body. Am I misunderstanding this?

 

[MA2444]

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Enoch and Elijah’s body were flesh and blood so why would you think their flesh and blood bodies went to heaven?

I hope that's not the day of school that I played hookey, but isnt inheritance a different thing than visitation ? I think it is!

There is a whole lot of people there now who have dies in Christ, and perhaps two who didnt die. But the big question is, is their being there mean that they have received their inheritance already?

I doubt it because the earth isnt done yet. The Lord has not Harvested yet, or had the great white throne Judgment or the Bema seat judgment so I would vernture to guess that they havent received their inheritance yet even if they are there and residing there until God is done with Earth.

Who was it? Paul was taken up and didnt know if it was in Body or in Spirit. He said I knew a man dada da but it's widely accepted that Paul was just speaking in the 3rd person about himself and not wanting to brag. So if flesh and blood can not even go to heaven, then is scripture lying that Paul was taken up 14 years ago?
The scripture cant lie. So you just need to think it through all the way. Paul couldnt tell if he was in the flesh or in spirit. So obviously he could feel the solidness of his (self) body because he didnt say he was a spirit floating around...

So it's not that flesh and bone cant enter heaven if God allows it, but that you can't inherit in the flesh, only God does that and not by mans hand. The Bema seat and inheritance ceremony is at His house in heaven so He is running things and not even subject to what He says you cant do!

See what I mean? Elijah and Enoch can easily be in Heaven in flesh right now.
I even heard a testimony where a lady was taken up by an Angel and he took her to a Orchard of fruit and told her to eat some so that ye be able to stand before the Lord...
I dont know if she ws in the flesh or not but some people say they collapse and trembling and stuff, others can stand but fear greatly, others have even said nothing weird happened they stodd and talked with the Lord and fwlt overwhelmed in a good way with waves of love....

If I miissed the mark here because of hookey, clue me in. But I thought through this before and know that if God wants flesh there, He will have flesh there!
Even if the book says, but if you go in the flesh you cant inherit like that! That only tells you something, not God!

 

[IndianaRob]

I hope that's not the day of school that I played hookey, but isnt inheritance a different thing than visitation ? I think it is!

There is a whole lot of people there now who have dies in Christ, and perhaps two who didnt die. But the big question is, is their being there mean that they have received their inheritance already?

I doubt it because the earth isnt done yet. The Lord has not Harvested yet, or had the great white throne Judgment or the Bema seat judgment so I would vernture to guess that they havent received their inheritance yet even if they are there and residing there until God is done with Earth.

Who was it? Paul was taken up and didnt know if it was in Body or in Spirit. He said I knew a man dada da but it's widely accepted that Paul was just speaking in the 3rd person about himself and not wanting to brag. So if flesh and blood can not even go to heaven, then is scripture lying that Paul was taken up 14 years ago?
The scripture cant lie. So you just need to think it through all the way. Paul couldnt tell if he was in the flesh or in spirit. So obviously he could feel the solidness of his (self) body because he didnt say he was a spirit floating around...

So it's not that flesh and bone cant enter heaven if God allows it, but that you can't inherit in the flesh, only God does that and not by mans hand. The Bema seat and inheritance ceremony is at His house in heaven so He is running things and not even subject to what He says you cant do!

See what I mean? Elijah and Enoch can easily be in Heaven in flesh right now.
I even heard a testimony where a lady was taken up by an Angel and he took her to a Orchard of fruit and told her to eat some so that ye be able to stand before the Lord...
I dont know if she ws in the flesh or not but some people say they collapse and trembling and stuff, others can stand but fear greatly, others have even said nothing weird happened they stodd and talked with the Lord and fwlt overwhelmed in a good way with waves of love....

If I miissed the mark here because of hookey, clue me in. But I thought through this before and know that if God wants flesh there, He will have flesh there!
Even if the book says, but if you go in the flesh you cant inherit like that! That only tells you something, not God!

Here’s what I see and why I believe what I believe about Enoch.

First and foremost Hebrews 11 specifically said that “these all died in faith NOT receiving the promises”.

Also it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.

And you also have flesh and blood can’t inherit the kingdom of God.

I see your point and I used to believe exactly what you believe so I understand where you’re coming from.

 

[MA2444]

Here’s what I see and why I believe what I believe about Enoch.

First and foremost Hebrews 11 specifically said that “these all died in faith NOT receiving the promises”.

Also it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgement.

And you also have flesh and blood can’t inherit the kingdom of God.

I see your point and I used to believe exactly what you believe so I understand where you’re coming from.

I've actually never really done a verse by verse study of Hebrews yet, but that reads to me as, those all died in faith not receiving the promises is a general statement about none of got to see the promises given through prophecies about Israel. It's not talking about if flesh canT inherit in heaven. It doesnt have to mean that everyone without exception did already die.

Nevertheless, Check this out!:

John 21:22-24
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true..../KJV

This is sort of a spooky story here. Peter picked up on it something about John not dying, he must've overheard them talking or something. And what did Jesus say?
What's it to you? Follow me. In short, this was none of Peter's business what the Lord does with someone else! He is God!

The bible isnt God's rulebook for Himself. It is a rulebook for man. It is a map Book for man. Can he not do what He will with His own?

Nah, we cant superimpose our limitations upon God. There's always exception to the rule for God.

Besides, what about all the people who get raptured? Do they still have to die? No, they get transformed! If all are appointed to die then when do those who are still living when the rapture happens have to wind up dying. Geez, for all we know it could be talking about dying spiritually!
Like was said to Adam, in that that day you shall die....and Adam lived 930 years? So it had to mean spirtually

 

[IndianaRob]

I've actually never really done a verse by verse study of Hebrews yet, but that reads to me as, those all died in faith not receiving the promises is a general statement about none of got to see the promises given through prophecies about Israel. It's not talking about if flesh canT inherit in heaven. It doesnt have to mean that everyone without exception did already die.

Nevertheless, Check this out!:

John 21:22-24
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true..../KJV

This is sort of a spooky story here. Peter picked up on it something about John not dying, he must've overheard them talking or something. And what did Jesus say?
What's it to you? Follow me. In short, this was none of Peter's business what the Lord does with someone else! He is God!

The bible isnt God's rulebook for Himself. It is a rulebook for man. It is a map Book for man. Can he not do what He will with His own?

Nah, we cant superimpose our limitations upon God. There's always exception to the rule for God.

Besides, what about all the people who get raptured? Do they still have to die? No, they get transformed! If all are appointed to die then when do those who are still living when the rapture happens have to wind up dying. Geez, for all we know it could be talking about dying spiritually!
Like was said to Adam, in that that day you shall die....and Adam lived 930 years? So it had to mean spirtually

The whole point of the Enoch situation is to show that Enoch’s translation is exactly what happens to every single believer throughout time.

Believers in Jesus whether from Enoch’s time or our time never die. When it’s time to go home God will translate us from this world to the next.

With the things coming on this world right now Gods people need to understand this to have courage and hope to face what’s coming.

 

[MA2444]

The whole point of the Enoch situation is to show that Enoch’s translation is exactly what happens to every single believer throughout time.

Believers in Jesus whether from Enoch’s time or our time never die. When it’s time to go home God will translate us from this world to the next.

With the things coming on this world right Gods people need to understand this to have courage and hope to face what’s coming.

Oh I see what you mean. And I agree with you too. We dont die. The flesh body may die but we dont. Death most likely feels good. Like breaking out of the cocoon into a butterfly!

Stephen was being stoned to death and it sounds like the door was open to him before he died and he started seeing heaven and most likely feeling it. So there's no pain when you die. Before you die there may be pain, but at some point God shuts off the pain and welcomes us home.

You hear about it in peoples last words. Good people feel good and say good things, I can see Jesus, I can see my grandma and stuff like that.

Anton Levey the satanist's last words were something like, Oh my what have I done, I've made a terrible mistake...Paul learned this too when he said, to die is to gain.

 

[IndianaRob]

Oh I see what you mean. And I agree with you too. We dont die. The flesh body may die but we dont. Death most likely feels good. Like breaking out of the cocoon into a butterfly!

Stephen was being stoned to death and it sounds like the door was open to him before he died and he started seeing heaven and most likely feeling it. So there's no pain when you die. Before you die there may be pain, but at some point God shuts off the pain and welcomes us home.

You hear about it in peoples last words. Good people feel good and say good things, I can see Jesus, I can see my grandma and stuff like that.

Anton Levey the satanist's last words were something like, Oh my what have I done, I've made a terrible mistake...Paul learned this too when he said, to die is to gain.

Exactly! That’s why I called this thread the rapture cover up. The doctrine that Paul is teaching that is wrongly called “the rapture” is really giving the details about the believer’s translation to heaven.

This is why Paul said “Then WE which are alive and remain”, meaning Paul is part of the group that will be translated like Enoch.