The Rapture Cover-up

[David in NJ]

Doesnt anyone know how much Jesus really loves them?

YES, we know the LORD loves us.
Keep in mind that there are many saints suffering as Job, even in this modern USA.
The persecution of the saints will continue to grow in number as this evil world continues to separate itself from all that represents
the Blood of the Lamb and the word of our Testimony.

 

[MA2444]

I’m perfectly fine with that except that I know what Paul is talking about and I know why he included himself as one that would be alive and remain at the coming of Jesus.

He said that because he is the one who knows and said, to live is for Christ and to die is to gain.. But in the verse, the dead in Christ will rise first and be transformed in the twinkling of an eye...then those who are still alive and remaining on earth also awaiting the Lord's return, will be transformed and caught up with all others and meet the Lord in the sky. Then He takes us to the place that He has prepared for us and we are there while the great tribulation is going on on earth. He takes us out because we are not subject to the wrath of God.

1. The dead in Christ were the Old Testament saints and they were raised with Christ and are currently in heaven with the Lord.
2. There are at least three different ways that Jesus comes. 1) When we are saved Jesus COMES into our lives. 2) When we die Jesus COMES to take us home. 3) Jesus COMES as king of Kings and Lord of lords (2nd coming). Every time your side sees Jesus coming it always considered to be the 2nd coming.
3. Enoch is not a type of “the rapture”, Enoch DIED but he did not SEE his death because he was taken to heaven BEFORE his body died.

1. But many many people have died in Christ since that happened when Jesus freed the people from Abrahams Bosom after His crucifixion. He took all those saints to heaven at that time. Now that Jesus has paid the price those who die in Christ go to be with Him and not to Abrahams Bosom anymore. But people have continued to die after that and they get raised first and at the right moment, those who are still alive in Christ who remain up until now on the earth get transformed to all meet Jesus in the clouds.

2. There is some vagueness and sloppy use of the term 2nd coming. People say the 2nd coming like it's the last time. But actually I guess the Rapture is really His 2nd coming (Public since His crucifixion) but only for His Believing and spotless Public Briides. And what is commonly referred to as His 2nd Coming is really His 3rd Coming! I noticed that awhile back too.

3. If Enoch was taken off the earth before His flesh body died, (and he did not return!)...we call that Raptured. Fairly simple concept. Enoch certainly was a single Raptured man when t happened. Noah is a type of raptured man. Except with Noah, it was 8 people instead of 1. From what I understand, the next rapture will be way more than 8 people. Is anything too hard for God? Phillip was raptured also in scripture, just when he finished Baptizing the guy from the chariot. Scripture says he was taken 100 miles or so away from there to a certain city. But I think Phillp's translation was not really translation or rapture because he didnt go to heaven, just a different location on the earth. So that's called, Transrelocation if I recall correctly. SImilar but only on the earth from one place to another. I have heard several good testimonies from people who Transrelocation was happening to them. SOme once, some many times!

 

[David in NJ]

Doesnt anyone know how much Jesus really loves them?

Post #261 edited

 

[MA2444]

The language around “the rapture” verses screams “Jesus coming” in that passage means coming at our deaths. With the main screaming voice being Paul specifically saying that HE would be one that is alive and remaining that would be caught up with the dead in Christ.

Based on what though? It is written, I am the God of the Living, not of the dead...To be absent from the flesh body is to be present with the Lord. No one dies! We are spiritual beings on a human journey and there is no death for our spirit and soul. I believe it would be more accurate to say it is like being born into our next life (the one with the Lord!). Remember when they stoned Stephen to death. The Heavens opened up to Him to receive him, and I'd bet money that there was no more pain! It is only the flesh body that dies and gets buried in the ground.

Then at the Rapture(Pretrib) it says He bring the Saints with Him (Their spirit and soul) and then the mans dead flesh body will be raised from the dead and we are rejoined with it and transformed into our spiritual body just like Jesus had after His resurrection. So we dont die brother. And at the moment that the pain goes away, you can be sure that you're about to meet Jesus!

The Bible is shear perfection, the are no errors and there are no mistakes. If Paul said he would be alive then you can bet your life he would be alive.

Agreed. There are no mistakes. And Paul is alive, right now. In heaven with the Lord. That's scripture.

I appreciate you asking for more details and a better explanation because most of your side skims what I say and immediately considers me a nut job.

Well we are all Brothers in Christ and the Lord desires for all of us to be Unified and as one wiith Him, in Christ. Talking on these forums is teaching me how to talk to people who disagree with me on different things. Being rude or condescending would not be fruitful towards unification one little bit. I think people talk bigger on the internet than in real llife. :)

But if I am to be fruitful for my Lord, then I have to resist the old man and his sharp wit. You nutjob! Oh my gosh. Wrong thing to say, lol. Brother in Christ! Neither of us are positive which is true and so we disagree. Most of us are clueless!
Good thing the Lord isnt looking for perfection in us. He's looking at our effort in trying. Our intentions and our heart. That's what the Lord looks at. And obedience.

I've let the gay sympathizers talk to my old man before. It was a mistake. We do not wrestle with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers of the dark evil world. And if I'm being diligent in guarding my heart, and striving for unification of the body of Christ, then they shouldnt be able to provoke my old man to speak. So, learn something new every day. I'm working on it, lol

I can take you verse by verse and show you why those verses are talking about our translation into heaven.

I think I natuarally speak to people how they speak to me. I found that sticking to the subject is much more fruitful and edifying than bickering like children. You sound like that too, so yeah, by all means, let's delve deeper into the subject. And thank you Brother for having a friendly tone. We all trying on some level. But God must love stupid people! He made so many! Lol.

 

[David in NJ]

Amen, which means the resurrection isn't the Second Coming.

Let's SEE now:

the LORD says:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

"who is" = Eternal
"who was" = the LORD came to earth as a man, in the flesh, of the seed of Abraham, was crucified and ROSE on the 3rd Day
"who is to come" = Second Coming of the LORD

 

[David in NJ]

Oh no you dont my brother. You have had planty of scriptures provided to you. You did not have eyes to see them, and did not have ears to hear them. Your misguided belief does not change the truth.

Be specific as to which/what you are speaking of:

i know the scriptures very well due to 40 years of reading/praying/meditating on them(deep study)

 

[MA2444]

Okay.

Is this question clear or is it difficult to understand “was the people who were spoken to by Jesus in that day, lied to concerning his return?”

Jesus did not lie so I say no they were not lied to. A better question perhaps would be, are we understanding the text of the scripture efficiently enough to get the clear truth. Annnd, how would we really kow. We were raised to speak Greek with all of the Isrealite customs and idiosyncraceis of the language and all sorts of small details like that? No, we're Westerners. But as the story is told in scripture, the disciples whould have easily known those idiosyncrcies and customes and anything that could be meaningful and yet vague to us 2000 years later. The disciples werent lied to and they understood Jesus when He spoke or change subjects when He spoke.. I heard a sermon all about this before. and he looked up the words that we usually gloss over and think nothing of. But in the middle of giving the four disciples a private briefing (where they asked Jesus 3 questions, and Jesus answered them all) And so many people dont realize when Jesus changed subjects while talking to the disciples in Matthew 24, but he did change subjects and I bet you cant find it! I didnt know until it was pointed out to me! I have it in my notes somewhere and it's bedtime brother. So I guess that it's for me tomight. I'll come back tomorrow and finish my answer to your post.

 

[David in NJ]

CORRECT.



INCORRECT.

TWO-FOLD PROPHECY

Your dead shall live;
my dead body they shall arise = (together with) is not in original manuscript
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead. = Second Coming = Luke 20:34-36

Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

​

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus did not lie so I say no they were not lied to.

Thats good. Thank you for your answer, have a good night.

 

[David in NJ]

@MA2444

Good Night

 

[IndianaRob]

Based on what though? It is written, I am the God of the Living, not of the dead...To be absent from the flesh body is to be present with the Lord. No one dies! We are spiritual beings on a human journey and there is no death for our spirit and soul. I believe it would be more accurate to say it is like being born into our next life (the one with the Lord!). Remember when they stoned Stephen to death. The Heavens opened up to Him to receive him, and I'd bet money that there was no more pain! It is only the flesh body that dies and gets buried in the ground.

Then at the Rapture(Pretrib) it says He bring the Saints with Him (Their spirit and soul) and then the mans dead flesh body will be raised from the dead and we are rejoined with it and transformed into our spiritual body just like Jesus had after His resurrection. So we dont die brother. And at the moment that the pain goes away, you can be sure that you're about to meet Jesus!



Agreed. There are no mistakes. And Paul is alive, right now. In heaven with the Lord. That's scripture.



Well we are all Brothers in Christ and the Lord desires for all of us to be Unified and as one wiith Him, in Christ. Talking on these forums is teaching me how to talk to people who disagree with me on different things. Being rude or condescending would not be fruitful towards unification one little bit. I think people talk bigger on the internet than in real llife. :)

But if I am to be fruitful for my Lord, then I have to resist the old man and his sharp wit. You nutjob! Oh my gosh. Wrong thing to say, lol. Brother in Christ! Neither of us are positive which is true and so we disagree. Most of us are clueless!
Good thing the Lord isnt looking for perfection in us. He's looking at our effort in trying. Our intentions and our heart. That's what the Lord looks at. And obedience.

I've let the gay sympathizers talk to my old man before. It was a mistake. We do not wrestle with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers of the dark evil world. And if I'm being diligent in guarding my heart, and striving for unification of the body of Christ, then they shouldnt be able to provoke my old man to speak. So, learn something new every day. I'm working on it, lol



I think I natuarally speak to people how they speak to me. I found that sticking to the subject is much more fruitful and edifying than bickering like children. You sound like that too, so yeah, by all means, let's delve deeper into the subject. And thank you Brother for having a friendly tone. We all trying on some level. But God must love stupid people! He made so many! Lol.

I definitely appreciate your friendly tone too brother. So lets delve deeper.

You said "Remember when they stoned Stephen to death. The Heavens opened up to Him to receive him, and I'd bet money that there was no more pain! It is only the flesh body that dies and gets buried in the ground."

Now do you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that 1 Thessalonians 4:5 is talking about the second coming of Christ or is it possible that his coming in Thessalonians 4:5 is the exact same coming that Stephen experienced when Jesus came for Stephen just before he died?

5 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

P.S. I'm getting tired so I may turn in at any time so I may not respond until tomorrow.

 

[MA2444]

Do you really think something worse than that is coming?

Yes.

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS says: "weeping and gnashing" of teeth is ETERNAL DAMNATION = Matthew ch24

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?
Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,
and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


They have no Oil at His Coming = they fell away from the Truth = 2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first

The foolish are left behind.
They experience hell on earth and are martyred.
So many killed horribly and you somehow think there can not possibly be weeping and overwhelming pain and sorrow at watching your children beheaded.

Pretrib rapture lines up perfectly like a glove.

 

[David in NJ]

The foolish are left behind.
They experience hell on earth and are martyred.
So many killed horribly and you somehow think there can not possibly be weeping and overwhelming pain and sorrow at watching your children beheaded.

Pretrib rapture lines up perfectly like a glove.

They experience hell on earth

the LORD says, His Blood Washed Sanctified Saints will experience "hell on earth"

a.) John 16:33 - In the world you will have tribulation

b.) John 17:14 - I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.

c.) Matthew 24:9 - they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

d.) 1 Thess 3:2 - that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.
For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation,

e.) 2 Thess 1:4 - we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer

pre-trib rapture NEVER came out of the Mouth of God

 

[Phoneman777]

Let's SEE know:

a.) the OT Prophets declare that the Resurrection of the Just is at His Second Coming
b.) JESUS says the Resurrection of the Just is at His Second Coming
c.) the Apostles declare that the Resurrection of the Just is at His Second Coming

But you choose not to believe Them!!!

What I mean is that Christ's resurrection was not the Second Coming.

 

[Phoneman777]

Let's SEE now:

the LORD says:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

"who is" = Eternal
"who was" = the LORD came to earth as a man, in the flesh, of the seed of Abraham, was crucified and ROSE on the 3rd Day
"who is to come" = Second Coming of the LORD

Yes, "who is to come" refers to the return of Christ to Earth after He's through with His ministry in the heavenly sanctuary aka "the Second Coming".

 

[David in NJ]

What I mean is that Christ's resurrection was not the Second Coming.

AGREE

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, "who is to come" refers to the return of Christ to Earth after He's through with His ministry in the heavenly sanctuary aka "the Second Coming".

i just now connected your avatar and your member name = i like it!

 

[Phoneman777]

i just now connected your avatar and your member name = i like it!

The Cross is our "line of communication" with heaven

 

[David in NJ]

The foolish are left behind.
They experience hell on earth and are martyred.
So many killed horribly and you somehow think there can not possibly be weeping and overwhelming pain and sorrow at watching your children beheaded.

Pretrib rapture lines up perfectly like a glove.

Pretrib rapture lines up perfectly like a glove

YES it does
In the hands of today's false prophets!!!

"An astonishing and horrible thing
Has been committed in the land:
The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule by their own power;
And My people love to have it so.
But what will you do in the end?"

God NEVER lies