The Pre-Trib Rapture

[The Light]

The disciples then asked two questions in Matthew 24 in response to our Lord’s words.

Christ addressed both questions and both eras in chapter 24. However, because of the intermingling of His response, many Bible students suffer great confusion in identifying what aspect of the teaching relates to AD 70 and what relates to the second coming.

Matthew 24:3 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

Mark 13:4 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled (finished or ended)?”

Luke 21:7 records:

1. “When shall these things be?”
2. “What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”

There is no talk of AD 70 in these passages. That is where the confusion of most Bible students begins. Both questions speak of end times.

The disciples ask two questions. Looking at Luke, "When will these things be?" When will WHAT THINGS be?

Luke 21
5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

When will there not be one stone another? You think this has happened. It hasn't and the second question proves it. "and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Since you think that the first question occurred in 70 AD. What sign was there when these things (Not one stone upon another at the Temple site) came to pass?

 

[CadyandZoe]

So, Again...WHY is a man IN Christ Jesus, going to be ON Earth, and experiencing the WRATH of the Lamb of God?

Same problem: you are confusing the wrath of God, which comes in seven bowls of wrath, with the Great Tribulation period, which requires the endurance of the saints.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Revelations 7:
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Who are THESE?
THESE are they whom were present ON the Earth, WHEN the Tribulation Began.
And UPON Whom, DOES the beginning of the Tribulation affect?

Well, Look to SEE WHO is Sending the Beginning Tribulation....
Rev 6:
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Why is the Lamb ANGRY?
Why is the Lamb SENDING His Tribulations?
Why are men ON the Earth experiencing the Lambs Wrath?

Simple....Because “THESE” men did NOT believe in the Lamb of God.
WHO, are “THESE” men who did Not believe in the Lamb of God?
....Jews?
....Atheists?
....Muslims?
....Converted IN Christ Jesus?

It is speaking EXPRESSLY of Jews...and any other man, who believed in God, but Rejected the Lamb of God as the Christ Messiah.
Primarily Jews who Believe IN God, but REJECTED the Lamb of God.

And WHAT ABOUT these Jews? Why are they NOW believing in the Lamb of God?

Did the CHURCH, “of Gentiles”... show up after 2,000 years and begin teaching the Jews about The Lamb of God? No.

144,000 Of the Tribes of Israel showed up...(Rev 7: 1-10)
and began Teaching all the Tribesmen (today, all calling themselves Jews)....and, ANY listeners...who believed in God, but Rejected the Lamb of God....The Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, Sent to SAVE their souls, and QUICKEN their spirits.......and ACCEPT THEIR physically DEAD BODY’s when they ARE KILLED.

* WHY do they begin to BELIEVE? BECAUSE they TRUST the TEACHERS...who ARE of the Tribes of Israel.
* Gentiles were NEVER given the appointment to TEACH the Tribes of Israel...about the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the Christ Messiah!
(Visa versa....Hebrews, tribes, Jews ... were supposed to Teach the Whole world...)

So...Why would the Lamb of God BE ANGRY with a man Already Converted IN Christ Jesus?

WHY, would a man Already Converted, BE... Again, Confessing Belief In the Lamb of God, Again laying down his bodily life, Again being cleansed in the Blood of Christ Jesus, Again be Saved by the Lamb of God?....

Again, the Tribulation Period is not the wrath of God. Seal 6 describes the wrath of God, not the Great Tribulation. Those who came out of the Tribulation period, are those who were tested and endured in faith. They weren't suffering God's wrath; they were suffering persecution, alienation, excommunication, and etc. from men.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Agree...The Church is not present during the Tribulation.

Amen!

So, at what stage do you guys present actual Scripture to support your claims?

OK, IF you insist...

They have already been presented a hundred times.

Ok, since you insist, here is Great GRACE Departure 101!:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In God's Other Context:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

To be continued...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Part II

(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The [Last GRACE] Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
Note: The First GRACE Trump (Voice) Of God, Was In Acts 9:4!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

See you In God's Great GloryLand! ♫ :) ↑

GRACE And Peace!

 

[Taken]

Same problem: you are confusing the wrath of God, which comes in seven bowls of wrath, with the Great Tribulation period, which requires the endurance of the saints.

Define your point concerning
The 7 SEALS, the 7 TRUMPS, the 7 BOWLS...

 

[No Pre-TB]

Same problem: you are confusing the wrath of God, which comes in seven bowls of wrath, with the Great Tribulation period, which requires the endurance of the saints.

But but but, we arnt there. That’s the tribulation saints. We go off world to a mansion in the sky. Just because Paul, Steven, Christ, James, Peter, Matthew..ahh well, millions have been persecuted for our Lord, we won’t be. That was little “t”. The big “T” isn’t for us, it’s for the Jews whose house was left desolate. God’s gonna punish them again cause they haven’t been punished enough at 70AD or during Nazi Germany. Forget starting at his house (those who identify as Christians) and all the heresies. We’re the Philadelphia church, everyone’s going up. Planes falling outta the sky and such. Didn’t you watch those movies Left Behind? It’ll happen! …..Not! Cady, stay with the truth :) Some are still looking thru a dark glass

 

[Truth7t7]

AW...

IF you are ON the Earth when the Tribulation OF God Begins...
YOU shall Experience the Beginning of Gods Tribulation...

The Tribulations of God.....are revealed;
SEALS, TRUMPS, VIALS...

AW...LOOKIE HERE...
Rev 6: The Lamb of God IN Heaven OPENING THE SEALS, one by one....

Rev 6:
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

And which one ARE YOU...THAT THE WRATH OF THE LAMB is UPON YOU?

Are you a great man, rich man, chief captain, a mighty man, a bond man, a free man?

Cause you AIN”T the Church of Christ ON the Earth ....
Cuz the Church of Christ...Already Laid DOWN their Life IN heartful confessed Belief...
And was Already SAVED BY THE LAMB OF God!

While YOU are ON EARTH...LOOKING UP when the Son of Man returns...

The Church will BE WITH their Lord ABOVE the face of the Earth.

Oops...wrong church.

God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

 

[covenantee]

I have nothing to do with pre-mil eschatology as you falsely claim, preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment is a lie, you have been shown the truth

The AOD takes place at the end, and the antichrist who brings Daniels abomination and desolation will be on earth to the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

It appears that you will favor reformed eschatology over presented biblical truth, once again you have been shown the truth, it's before your eyes "Even Until The Consummation" and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem

Daniel's AOD is future "Unfulfilled"!

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

"Even Until The Consummation"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Waiting for you to explain the Roman armies and the flight of the Judean Christians.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Define your point concerning
The 7 SEALS, the 7 TRUMPS, the 7 BOWLS...

When Paul says "we are not destined for wrath, he speaks of eternal damnation.
Seal 5 indicates those who suffered at the hands of those who hate God and hate Jesus.
Seal 6 describes the punishment their tormentors will suffer.
The bowls are the temporal wrath of God. The saints are taken up to be with the Lord before the bowls are poured out.
The trumpets are warnings.

 

[Truth7t7]

Waiting for you to explain the Roman armies and the flight of the Judean Christians.

No need to explain Roman Armies in 66-70AD, you have been clearly shown that Daniel's AOD takes place in the "Future" and the Antichrist will be present on earth to (The Consummation) or (Ultimate End)

It appears that you follow reformed "Preterist" eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, just as wrong as dispensationalism's pre-trib rapture and Millennial Kingdom on Earth

"Preterism" in 66-70AD fulfillment is deception in my opinion and observation of scripture, as you remain silent on "The Consummation" seen below

Once again you have been shown the truth, it's before your eyes "Even Until The Consummation" and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem with "Roman Armies"!

Daniel's AOD is future "Unfulfilled"!

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

"Even Until The Consummation"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

The bowls are the temporal wrath of God. The saints are taken up to be with the Lord before the bowls are poured out.
The trumpets are warnings.

Your claim is "False"

The Church will be present on earth during the tribulation, and witness the second coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[covenantee]

No need to explain Roman Armies in 66-70AD

Sure there is, since it's in Scripture, associated with the flight of the Judean Christians.

In 66 AD.

Awaiting your explanation of both.

 

[Taken]

God's Divine Protection Of The Church During The Tribulation

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Come from “where”?
Who is “my people”.?
What is “thy chambers”?
Hide “where” ?
What “indignation” ?

 

[Truth7t7]

Sure there is, since it's in Scripture, associated with the flight of the Judean Christians.

In 66 AD.

Awaiting your explanation of both.

You remain silent on "Even Until The Consummation" seen below, because it destroys reformed "Preterist" eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, that you believe and teach

Once again you have been shown the truth, it's before your eyes "Even Until The Consummation" and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem with "Roman Armies"!

Daniel's AOD is future "Unfulfilled"!

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

"Even Until The Consummation"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[covenantee]

You remain silent on "Even Until The Consummation" seen below, because it destroys reformed "Preterist" eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, that you believe and teach

Once again you have been shown the truth, it's before your eyes "Even Until The Consummation" and it didn't take place in 66-70AD Jerusalem with "Roman Armies"!

Daniel's AOD is future "Unfulfilled"!

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummatingthe consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

"Even Until The Consummation"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Merriam-Webster doesn't do Hebrew.

From Daniel 9:27 Hebrew:

3617 [e]
kā·lāh
כָּלָה֙
the consummation
N‑fs

"kalah: completion, complete destruction, consumption, annihilation"

Which occurred in 70 AD.

Your turn.

Your explanations of the Roman armies and the resulting flight of the Judean Christians.

 

[Truth7t7]

"kalah: completion, complete destruction, consumption, annihilation"

Which occurred in 70 AD.

Your turn.

Your explanations of the Roman armies and the resulting flight of the Judean Christians.

Your claim "The Consummation" took place in 70AD Jerusalem is false, it's a future event unfulfilled as seen below

"The Future Consummation"

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[ewq1938]

AND....God IS going to SEND HIS Tribulations, HIS Wrath UPON THEM....BECAUSE....WHY?

Not trib from God. The church will be suffering Satan's trib.

 

[ewq1938]

It appears that you follow reformed "Preterist" eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment, just as wrong as dispensationalism's pre-trib rapture and Millennial Kingdom on Earth

You don't know your own doctrine. The Millennial kingdom is on Earth in Amill too. Remember? Christ reigning through his spiritually "resurrected" saints who are on the Earth?

 

[Truth7t7]

You don't know your own doctrine. The Millennial kingdom is on Earth in Amill too. Remember? Christ reigning through his spiritually "resurrected" saints who are on the Earth?

(Thousans Years) as seen in Revelation 20:4-6 has absolutely nothing to do with a Kingdom or The Church on earth

(Thousand Years) is non-literal symbolic speech, talking to the human mind regarding God's eternal realm in the spiritual