The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Phoneman777]

We have two commandments . . . trust Jesus, and love others. If we do these, all will be done.

Much love!

Does a person really love God if they blaspheme His name, make idols to worship, or even put other gods before Him? Of course not. But, disregarding the Sabbath somehow proves our love for Him, right?

Can I say I love my neighbor if I steal from him or run around with his wife?

You see, if we truly love God, we'll keep the first four, and if we love our neighbor, the last six, and if it wasn't for the 4th commandment, everyone would agree ;)

 

[marks]

The letter of the law against stealing refers to the act of theft, while the spirit of the law refers to entertaining thoughts of doing it.

The law prohibits stealing. Love produces giving.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But, disregarding the Sabbath somehow proves our love for Him, right?

Trading off our forever rest in Christ for kicking back on a Saturday? That's somehow better?

Much love!

 

[post]

More flip flops than a Florida beach.

Having in the flesh been born in Fla I just want to mention that flip flops are only for the parking lot. The beach is properly a barefoot zone.

Much love =]

Amen @marks

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is you who refuses to understand what is plain to see: the Sabbath was created in Eden as a memorial to Creation and remains such for all time as we observe it throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity......... while the yearly Feast Day sabbaths which pointed to Jesus were nailed to the Cross and are no more. Good gravy, man, what makes you think the one commandment which begins with "Remember" is the only one we're allowed to forget?

Good gravy, man, what makes you think that commandment was given to Gentiles?

And Hebrews 4:9 KJV says if you're resting inwardly every day in Jesus, you'll demonstrate that by resting outwardly every weekly Sabbath from your work "as God did from His". Another reason why the weekly Sabbath is no shadow nailed to the Cross, but a memorial to both His power to Create in six days and rest the seventh day and to re-create in us a new heart that rests in Jesus which we demonstrate outwardly by resting as He rested.
You make it all about you by claiming the Cross grants you a License to Sin, which I assure you is not the case. Do you have any idea how ridiculous it is to preach we're obligated to keep NINE commandments but free to break the 4th?

Do you know how ridiculous it is for you to think you're still under the old covenant instead of the new covenant?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please don't shift the conversation from the weekly Sabbath as a New Covenant commandment once written on stone but now written on the heart (2 Corinthians 3:1-3 KJV; Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV) ---- to a new topic about what we must do to be saved, OK?

Hey, your doctrine is the one that says keeping the Sabbath or not has something to do with the mark of the beast, not mine. That makes it a salvation issue because obviously if someone has the mark of the beast then they are not saved.

I've already made it clear the Just Man who falls may obtain mercy, but the Presumptuous Man will go to hell, so please don't feign ignorance about something of which you're fully aware.

LOL. You don't speak straightforwardly, so I can only guess as to what you might be saying sometimes.

 

[Timtofly]

Until you can disprove the evidence I've provided, I've won the debate.

Complete with bragging rights.

A debate which you initiated.

1948 Israel.

So now about 1776 the birth of the US. Is that Israel as well?

You know perfectly well that genetics had nothing to do with my point. You won your own head battle.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. No. How can a bunch of stuff happen on earth after it's burned up? What nonsense.

Humans will be so bored with no stuff nor stuff to do. Guess Satan is going to have a boring 42 moves of no stuff.

Is this your way of saying that you believe the falling away that Paul referenced in 2 Thess 2:3 already started decades ago?

Why not. Unless there is a great revival to fall away from, most of the church has been caught up with the cares of life. Not that some areas are having a revival and growth. I am talking about the influential areas. Even Russia is in a war right now. Unless you think half the country is ignoring the other half. War usually either brings out the worst in people or the best.

 

[Phoneman777]

The law prohibits stealing. Love produces giving.

Much love!

Actually, the First Commandment produces giving - because if God is our God, what He imparts to us, we impart to others - we can't give away what we don't have to start with.

 

[Phoneman777]

Trading off our forever rest in Christ for kicking back on a Saturday? That's somehow better?

Much love!

How about demonstrating our forever rest by kicking back on Sabbath like Hebrews 4:9 KJV says we're supposed to do? ;)

Does it make sense that the Sabbath rest goes back to Eden and will be kept for all eternity, but for some reason, God decided the couple thousand years between the first and second advent, He wasn't worried about it?

 

[Phoneman777]

Good gravy, man, what makes you think that commandment was given to Gentiles?

Because the "Sabbath was made for MAN" not JEW.

Do you know how ridiculous it is for you to think you're still under the old covenant instead of the new covenant?

The Ten Commandments are part of the NC -- unless you can point to the one we're free to disobey.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hey, your doctrine is the one that says keeping the Sabbath or not has something to do with the mark of the beast, not mine. That makes it a salvation issue because obviously if someone has the mark of the beast then they are not saved.

I'll concede that point. Suffice it to say, obedience or rebellion is doesn't make or break the salvation deal - it's our inward choice we make which does that, and that choice is shown by the obedience or rebellion that follows.

You don't speak straightforwardly, so I can only guess as to what you might be saying sometimes.

I"ve been totally clear that salvation is by grace through faith alone, and our works of obedience or rebellion prove whether we've been saved by grace or not.

That's why the Mark of the Beast has to do with the law - our works will show if we have the Seal of God or take the Mark of the Beast, not some tattoo or chip or any such silly thing.

 

[covenantee]

So now about 1776 the birth of the US. Is that Israel as well?

You know perfectly well that genetics had nothing to do with my point. You won your own head battle.

You began with 1948 Israel. Why are you afraid to continue with 1948 Israel?

Genetics had nothing to do with 1948 Israel? How did 1948 Israelis arrive on this earth? Were they aliens?

Do Israelis possess genes?

If not, tell us what they possess instead.

 

[ewq1938]

He will send fire down on earth after He descends from heaven. That's what is indicated in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

It is not indicated in that passage. In fact, Jesus does not send down fire in any passage of the bible, let alone in Revelation.

Both.

It's not a literal sword, as you have already acknowledged. You said yourself it is a symbolic sword, did you not? So, Revelation 19 does not specifically talk about the LITERAL way that Christ will destroy His enemies.

There is a sword, and there is blood. It's obviously physical harm that kills. The passage does not in any way support fire coming out of heaven killing anyone. There is just as much support for people being frozen to death or drowned to death, which is ZERO.

Why can you not understand that? The fire does not come out of His mouth, which is ridiculous. He supernaturally sends it down to the earth.

Wrong, there is no support for that at all. Whatever kills people comes out of his mouth as the scriptures say.

Your nonsensical way of trying to explain what Amils believe causes problems. Our beliefs, however, do not.

The beliefs are nonsensical and are non-scriptural. Amillennialism wrongly tries to force two different chapters and events as if they were the same which causes all the problems inherent in such endeavors.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does that say He is sitting on a throne on earth? I don't see that anywhere. Looks like you're making that up.

Matthew 25:31 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

Nope, no mention of earth here. Revelation 20:11 indicates that heaven and earth flee from His presence at the judgment, so it can't be on earth.

Does not mention heaven either. Since He is coming from heaven, unless it is the moon, it will be the earth.

Certainly this is not a future leaving earth, as Jesus was on earth when He said those words.

Did He not go away and promise to come again?

 

[Timtofly]

You began with 1948 Israel. Why are you afraid to continue with 1948 Israel?

Genetics had nothing to do with 1948 Israel? How did 1948 Israelis arrive on this earth? Were they aliens?

Do Israelis possess genes?

If not, tell us what they possess instead.

Your point means they were always a nation and never punished by God. They just took their nationality to the whole world.

Well now they are a non wandering nation.

You are the one that claims any old nation can be Israel, but I see you avoided an answer about 1776.

 

[covenantee]

Your point means they were always a nation and never punished by God. They just took their nationality to the whole world.

Well now they are a non wandering nation.

You are the one that claims any old nation can be Israel, but I see you avoided an answer about 1776.

I see you avoided answering every question I asked.

I'm interested in 1948 Israel, not 1776.

You know, the subject that you brought up first.

And are now unable to answer questions about.

But unsurprising.

Because a myth has only two types of answers.

False and none.

 

[teamventure]

I didn't miss your point. I believe you're trying to evade my point, which is from Scripture.

The idea of one thinking to 'save their soul by flying away' is my point, and fits the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine fully. And that flying away to save one's soul is what God is showing He is against in that Ezekiel 13 Chapter.

"and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Woe to the women that sew pillows upon all elbows, and make kerchiefs for the head of [persons of] every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and save souls alive for yourselves?"

It doesn't say anything about flying away to save ones soul, it goes into detail about sewing to hunt souls, (this is apparently referring to some kind of witchcraft)

You are creating your own false teaching by falsely applying this to the rapture when it obviously is about something else.

 

[The Light]

"and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Woe to the women that sew pillows upon all elbows, and make kerchiefs for the head of [persons of] every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and save souls alive for yourselves?"

It doesn't say flying away to save ones soul, it says hunt souls, you're creating your own false teaching.
You say that is about the rapture.
Obviously not.

Yeah a lot of stuff made up around here. It seems anything to discredit the truth of the Word. And the blind roll on.

 

[Philologos]

You !mentioned

When I consider the Rapture of the Church, and when it might occur, I find a couple of things seem to hold true.

One is that there is no place that just says, it happens then, you can only know through the process of elimination.

Another is, after you've ruled out everything it can't be, the only option left is PreTrib.

One more . . . the more likely someone is to call something "symbolic", for instance, the 144,000 sealed Jews, the more likely someone is to call these things symbolic, the less likely to hold to pre-trib timing. The more literally Scripture is taken, the more likely someone will be pre-trib. These seem to go hand in hand.

If Jesus comes and first gathers Israel, and then gathers the nations to be judged according as He said, the church has to already be gone from the earth when the great tribulation begins.

If the Revelation is prophetic narrative, and when it says this happens and then that happens, that's the way it is, the church must be gone before any of the trumpets and bowls.

So to continue the one example . . . "the servant of God were sealed", John heard the number, 144,000, all Jewish men. No gentiles there, no women, and only 144 thousand of them. No church present on the earth.

Much love!

You mentioned using the "process of elimination" in determining the doctrinal evidence of the pre-trib rapture... I'm curious how one would go about that same process of elimination.