The Pre-Trib Rapture

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Truth7t7

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Then obviously you can stop replying to me that the coming Sabbath is a fairy tale.

I get that you have exchanged a physical day for the coming Day of the Lord.
I don't adhere to your teaching of the day of the Lord being 1,000 years

This day will be sudden and quick, like a thief in the night, when the Lord returns in fire and final judgement (The End)
 

Davy

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You apply these passages to the end of the age Jews contrary to the other prophecies. While they apply very much to those to whom He was speaking, without contradicting those other passages.

The Matthew 8:11-12 timing is EASY, since Jesus is pointing to the time when many will come from the east and the west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN...

Matt 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

KJV


"The kingdom of God shall be taken from . . . you.

The vineyard WAS taken from them, and given to another.

Yeah, and the unbelieving Jews losing it began when The Gospel was preached to the western nations and they became the western Christian nations of history. Yet His literal Kingdom is still to come, and the future is when the Matthew 8:11-12 will happen, at Jesus' future return to this earth.

Daniel 12:2 KJV
2) And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We have to be able to understand this passages in such a way that none are rendered untrue because of our understanding of another passage.

You mean, all of God's Word agrees with each other. Yeah, I agree that ALL of God's Word is in agreement with ITSELF. But YOU are not, I'm sorry to say.

THIS is why I am trying... to get you to learn more of God's Word about this Matthew 8:11-12 event of the unbelieving being cast to the "outer darkness" when Jesus returns, with that applying to unbelievers of the 'seed' of Israel just as well as unbelievers of the Gentiles.

I don't want to be in the position of having to say, "Even though the Bible says all Israel will be saved . . . they won't be". I think that shows not all has been correctly understood.

Much love!

Here is one of the Isaiah Scriptures that Apostle Paul was pointing to with that "And so all Israel shall be saved... " quote:

Isa 59:20
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

KJV

Did you get that? "... unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob"?

At Jesus' future return, when everyone will bow to Him as Lord, how might that Isaiah 59:20 be meant? I see it as pointing to ONLY those of the seed of Israel that convert and BELIEVE on Jesus Christ.

This is why Jesus showed in Luke 23:26-30 that the days would come when those daughters of Jerusalem would say, ...

"Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck." Why... will the unbelieving Jews say that at Christ's appearance with His faithful elect? It is from the metaphor God gave in Isaiah 54 about the spiritually barren. It is why Apostle Paul used the idea of wanting to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It is where Jesus also first showed the idea of His faithful remaining spiritual virgins waiting for His coming.

Those Jews who rejected Him will then recognize the 'barren' (Christ's faithful), who remained chaste spiritual virgins waiting on His coming, and will call them (the Church) blessed.

Luke 23:29
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, "Fall on us"; and to the hills, "Cover us."
KJV


Then because of their shame, those unbelieving Jews will wish for the mountains and the hills to fall upon them, which is an expression for their shame... in that future time. That is what Lord Jesus was pointing to there.

Does this mean those won't be saved? Not necessarily, for we don't have the authority to condemn anyone, only Jesus Christ has that Authority. But at His return, those WILL BE SEPARATED AS GOATS, and stand in judgment throughout His future "thousand years" Millennial reign.

But not just those unbelieving Jews that God blinded, but also... some Christian brethren that err will be in that outer darkness with them also! In Matthew 25, Jesus also showed how the UNPROFITABLE SERVANT will be cast to the "outer darkness" also, and that was shown immediately prior to His revealing about the separation between His sheep and the goats at His future return. Likewise with the Jesus warning at the very end of Matthew 24 about the servant who thinks his master delays his coming, that servant will be appointed his portion with the hypocrites.

Also per Matthew 7, Jesus showed how not everyone that says, "Lord, lord" will enter into His future Kingdom, and by that He showed how some believers that did many works and miracles through His name, but still worked iniquity, He will tell those to get away from Him. Likewise with the five foolish virgins, and these latter groups represent BELIEVERS on Him.
 
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Davy

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Zechariah 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom
....


Zechariah 14 is Christ's SECOND COMING AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH, on His way to Jerusalem, ON THE STILL EXISTING EARTH at the LAST DAY of this present world, and then BEGINS HIS FUTURE "THOUSAND YEARS" REIGN OF REVELATION 20.
 

Timtofly

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@Taken I think Timtofly's comment quoted there is likely somewhat off-topic to the theme of the Rapture.

I do not picture “saved souls” having a “freelance prance about all of Heaven”.

Hebrews 11:12-16

"Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

Jesus has a permanent incorruptible physical body. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:1-3

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked."

Of course naked souls don't go prancing all over heaven.

Don't blame me, blame Paul.
 

Timtofly

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Removed to where? To Heaven off the earth? Nope! Afraid not, no such idea as that is written in God's Word. (I think you well know it too). Zechariah 14 tells us exactly where Jesus is returning BACK TO THIS EARTH TO, bringing all His saints with Him, which is the day of His gathering His Church, on the LAST DAY of this present world.
"For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Not a single word of "saints" coming from the dead, nor heaven to rule with Jesus in those verses.
 

Timtofly

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That of course is not written. What is written is that for the end of this world, in prep for the time of the end (for the "great tribulation"), Satan and his angels are booted out of the heavenly down to the earth BECAUSE OF the war in Heaven of Revelation 12:7-9. That war in Heaven has not taken place yet today. It is for the near future, for the start of the trib time. And Satan MOST DEFINITELY is coming to this earth PRIOR to Christ's 2nd coming. That is even what Apostle Paul shows in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9, so I don't know why you would lie against the Scriptures about that.

2 Thess 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:


9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV


The Lord shall consume "that Wicked" (one) with the spirit of His mouth? and will destroy that Wicked one with the brightness of HIS coming? Why have you not believed what Apostle Paul said there about Jesus' future coming to destroy that Antichrist at the end?
I already said Satan is constantly going back and forth from heaven to earth. What is your point, about holding a press conference to declare Satan is in charge?
 

Timtofly

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I don't adhere to your teaching of the day of the Lord being 1,000 years

This day will be sudden and quick, like a thief in the night, when the Lord returns in fire and final judgement (The End)
Then you do not Remember the Sabbath.
 

covenantee

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Israel is the fig tree.

Here is your "Israel" figment tree.

Every person on the planet.


After more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Abraham's physical DNA is present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Genetically, "Israel" is found in the entirety of humanity.

Established mathematically. Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


Corroborated empirically.
By the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

How will God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.
 

Davy

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The mount of Olives is no where near the valley of Megiddo. Armageddon is not the Second Coming.

Armageddon is a representation of the nations (like in Ezekiel 38) coming up against JERUSALEM on the last day, to destroy. Thus Armageddon is used as a SYMBOL for that gathering, meaning 'to surround and to pour'. Pour what? Pour out God's cup of Wrath upon those armies (see Zephaniah 3:8 also).

And the battle of Armageddon DEFINITELY IS CHRIST'S SECOND COMING. God's written Word reveals Jesus comes ONLY one more time, not two or three or more. He comes on the "last trump", which means the farthest trumpet, the 7th Trumpet. That also is the final 7th Vial timing. That is His ONLY future coming, and is also the day when He gathers His Church.

The 6th Seal is the Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Jesus is not on the clouds. He is setting up His throne and temple in Jerusalem. The landing on the mount of Olives levels the temple mount. Literally no stone left on top of one another. That is when Jesus sets up His Throne.

It is gross error to try and isolate a Scripture off by itself, disregarding the rest of The Bible. Everywhere written in Scripture about a specific event must be weighed together, and God made sure His Word does a lot of repeating of single events.

The 6th Seal (latter part) is when those on earth see The Father sitting on His Throne in Heaven, which means the consuming fire 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' has happened and that is how they see Jesus in Heaven coming. That indeed is when Jesus gathers His Church they all go to the Mount of Olives, and the great valley mentioned there in Zechariah 14 is formed by Jesus' feet touching down upon that Mount of Olives. Yes, that is when His future "thousand years" reign over the wicked begins.

Armageddon is after Satan's 42 months. Satan will be sitting on that throne set up at the 6th Seal.

Yeah, the battle of Armageddon is immediately after Satan's 42 month reign, meaning Jesus' coming ENDS SATAN'S REIGN. That is what the battle on the "day of the Lord" in Zechariah 14 represents, the LAST DAY of this present world. The FIRST PART of the 6th Seal is pointing to Satan and his host at the end, as 'untimely figs', which is about the winter fig that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring, meaning an early fig. That is symbolic for those who are deceived and fall to Satan thinking he is Christ, and those become 'untimely figs', not waiting for the summer return by The True Christ, and being the true ripe figs in season.

Can you explain where billions of redeemed currently in heaven will fit in Jerusalem? If that multitude cannot be counted, then how will it fit in Jerusalem? Paradise is where the redeemed currently are. It is quite capable of holding billions of redeemed.

Didn't you notice the Revelation Heavenly Cube dimensions given?

Rev 21:16
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

KJV

The Millennial Sanctuary and Oblation of Ezekiel 40-48. - Appendix to the Companion Bible
 

Phoneman777

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That's true, but then you have to ask yourself, what exactly was God doing in the beginning?

Because it remains that it is written, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God, and that we rest when we have ceased from our works.

For we are His workmanship . . . a new creation, where instead of a single day of rest, we have a lifetime of rest.

There needn't be a problem though with original creation for the Sabbath to foreshadow the new creation, and while original creation was declared "good", it was not "intrinsically good" in the way God is, and of course God knew what was coming. He rested from His works, and that stands as our example to rest from our works.

Much love!
The reason we keep the Sabbath is because it's a memorial to God's creative power - if it was a "shadow", Hebrews 4:9 KJV would not be telling us it's our duty to keep it, right? It would have said, "There's no more duty to keep the Sabbath" but that's not what it says. The verse says "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath". :)
 

Phoneman777

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Love doesn't break the commandments, but love is not the keeping of the commandments either. Love is love. Not Lawkeeping. I don't refrain from stealing because the Law says, don't steal, I refrain from stealing because I want people to have those things that are theirs. I'm not keeping Law, I'm living love, and that does not transgress Law.

Much love!
"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous." - 1 John 5:3 KJV

The verse is absolutely saying the "agape" of God is demonstrated by keeping happily keeping His commandments, so do you still believe that "love is love, not lawkeeping"?
 

Davy

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I showed you that Jesus answered "when shall these things be?" with details which are EASILY seen fulfilled in 70 A.D., but also have end time fulfillment, as well.

And I disagree, because Jesus' return NEVER WAS IN 70 A.D.

Furthermore, Jesus said later in the Matthew 24 the generation that sees "all these things" would not pass until all "these things" came to pass. He placed ALL those Signs in His Olivet discourse for the LAST GENERATION that will see His future coming. This is so... easy...

Matt 24:33-34
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
KJV

1. Did the generation of the Apostle's day see ALL those things (Signs) come to pass in their day? No, of course not, because Jesus gave the Sign of His future coming to gather His saints as the last Sign.

2. Did those in 70 A.D. Jerusalem see ALL those things (Signs)? Again no, for the obvious reason I showed in no.1.

3. Has ANY generation to date seen ALL those things (Signs) come to pass in their generation? No, and still again, for the obvious reason I explained in no.1.

So those on men's traditions tooting their own horns just don't know how easy Jesus made this!
 

Timtofly

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Here is your "Israel" figment tree.

Every person on the planet.


After more than three millennia of natural genetic dispersion and diffusion, Abraham's physical DNA is present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Genetically, "Israel" is found in the entirety of humanity.

Established mathematically. Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


Corroborated empirically.
By the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

How will God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.
You sure make it sound that God is confused by His creation. You can keep your historicism. I am fine with the Word of God. If God cannot figure out who is Israel, you can raise your hand when He asks for help.
 

Timtofly

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Armageddon is a representation of the nations (like in Ezekiel 38) coming up against JERUSALEM on the last day, to destroy. Thus Armageddon is used as a SYMBOL for that gathering, meaning 'to surround and to pour'. Pour what? Pour out God's cup of Wrath upon those armies (see Zephaniah 3:8 also).

And the battle of Armageddon DEFINITELY IS CHRIST'S SECOND COMING. God's written Word reveals Jesus comes ONLY one more time, not two or three or more. He comes on the "last trump", which means the farthest trumpet, the 7th Trumpet. That also is the final 7th Vial timing. That is His ONLY future coming, and is also the day when He gathers His Church.



It is gross error to try and isolate a Scripture off by itself, disregarding the rest of The Bible. Everywhere written in Scripture about a specific event must be weighed together, and God made sure His Word does a lot of repeating of single events.

The 6th Seal (latter part) is when those on earth see The Father sitting on His Throne in Heaven, which means the consuming fire 'change' at the 'twinkling of an eye' has happened and that is how they see Jesus in Heaven coming. That indeed is when Jesus gathers His Church they all go to the Mount of Olives, and the great valley mentioned there in Zechariah 14 is formed by Jesus' feet touching down upon that Mount of Olives. Yes, that is when His future "thousand years" reign over the wicked begins.



Yeah, the battle of Armageddon is immediately after Satan's 42 month reign, meaning Jesus' coming ENDS SATAN'S REIGN. That is what the battle on the "day of the Lord" in Zechariah 14 represents, the LAST DAY of this present world. The FIRST PART of the 6th Seal is pointing to Satan and his host at the end, as 'untimely figs', which is about the winter fig that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring, meaning an early fig. That is symbolic for those who are deceived and fall to Satan thinking he is Christ, and those become 'untimely figs', not waiting for the summer return by The True Christ, and being the true ripe figs in season.



Didn't you notice the Revelation Heavenly Cube dimensions given?

Rev 21:16
16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

KJV

The Millennial Sanctuary and Oblation of Ezekiel 40-48. - Appendix to the Companion Bible
So you have a return to the mount of Olives separate from the Second Coming 42 months later? That is a start.

Revelation 7:9-17 is John viewing all the saints from all time in Paradise. This is immediately after the 6th Seal, and before the 7th Seal.

Read Revelation 16:16 in the Hebrew.

"And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

"And they gathered the kings to the place which in Hebrew is called Har Megiddo."

Megiddo is over 60 miles from Jerusalem.

Two events. Two locations. Separated by, at the least, 42 months. Can you explain why the church has not been left on earth after death, but now you declare the church needs to arrive 1,000 years before the New Jerusalem? Is the New Jerusalem empty when it comes down?

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Where is the bride? Waiting on earth? In the New Jerusalem?
 

Truth7t7

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Zechariah 14 is Christ's SECOND COMING AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH, on His way to Jerusalem, ON THE STILL EXISTING EARTH at the LAST DAY of this present world, and then BEGINS HIS FUTURE "THOUSAND YEARS" REIGN OF REVELATION 20.
The Fabricated Fairy Tales, In The Land Of Oz
 
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covenantee

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You sure make it sound that God is confused by His creation. You can keep your historicism. I am fine with the Word of God. If God cannot figure out who is Israel, you can raise your hand when He asks for help.
God created Israel to confuse df's.

You confirm His success.