The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Timtofly]

Just don’t see, “saved souls” in a “city” in Heaven.
Just don’t see, God leaving one man IN Christ on Earth to experience Gods Great Tribulations and Wrath.
Do see God IS Faithful, True and Just.

Hebrews 11:12-16

"Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city."

Jesus has a permanent incorruptible physical body. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:1-3

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked."

Of course naked souls don't go prancing all over heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture does not say that.

I repost:

At the 6th Seal the Lamb comes to earth. Revelation 6:12-17 implies what Jesus claims in Matthew 24:30.

"And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

The two passages compliment each other.

 

[Timtofly]

I observe the 7th day as my day of rest, not the 1st day as many churches and denominations do

You can get crazy in your response concerning your opinion on the 7th day Sabbath, you have received my clear response

Then obviously you can stop replying to me that the coming Sabbath is a fairy tale.

I get that you have exchanged a physical day for the coming Day of the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

Why don't you explain... when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, how it is possible that Jesus has not returned and Armageddon has not already happened.

Because of Satan's 42 months. Satan does not get the firstfruits as many preach. Satan gets the leftovers. Revelation 13:5-8

 

[Timtofly]

Did you find a case in Scripture where God disregarded His own imposed condition and gathered Israel into the land without them repenting?
Did God impose some unknown condition on the U.S. like He imposed on Israel before He'd gather them after they'd been punitively scattered?
You mean Freemason Pike's letter stating they planned to create a "sovereign state in Israel"? BTW, it can be shown to anyone willing to listen the Papacy controls the world's secret societies, make no mistake. So, to answer your question, no, I don't pick and choose the evil, the evil by virtue of arrogance and pride, loves to dangle their secrets in plain sight because they know people are too preoccupied with divisive politics, sports, and entertainment foolishness to care.
When it comes to prophecy, shouldn't we take into consideration 2 Chronicles 6 and 7 before we presume to interpret "Israel" in Revelation as pertaining to literal Israel and not the "Israel of God", which Paul refers to as the church?

Matthew 25:31-46. Can you find the word repentance?

 

[ewq1938]

Is English your first language?

Is it yours? Here is the scripture speaking of the mark. WHERE IS SUNDAY WORSHIP MENTIONED????


Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[farouk]

Love doesn't break the commandments, but love is not the keeping of the commandments either. Love is love. Not Lawkeeping. I don't refrain from stealing because the Law says, don't steal, I refrain from stealing because I want people to have those things that are theirs. I'm not keeping Law, I'm living love, and that does not transgress Law.

Much love!

@marks

It's very interesting that Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed; and Hebrews 7.19 says what we now have is "better" (a keyword in Hebrews) than the law.

 

[Taken]

Of course naked souls don't go prancing all over heaven.

LOL...belly laugh!!

 

[amigo de christo]

Its time to praise and thank the LORD . So lift those hands up and let the praises begin .

 

[farouk]

LOL...belly laugh!!

@Taken I think Timtofly's comment quoted there is likely somewhat off-topic to the theme of the Rapture.

 

[ewq1938]

The OC was the law written on stone

No, it wasn't. Only a small part of it was on stone.

, the NC is the same law written on our heart.

If you love God, you'll keep the first four and if you love thy neighbor, the last six. "Love is the fulfilling of the law".

The Saturday Sabbath is not part of the NC.

 

[farouk]

God doesn’t “protect” men From tribulations men cause.
God does “comfort” men “through” tribulations men cause men.
Notice of late; for example; the number of deaths by a lab creation, by created pharma, by men losing their livelihood because they will not acquiesce?

God “protects” men From evil, should they desire to convert and wear the armor of God.

Disagree Noah went “through” the flood, when Scripture clearly says he was Lifted up Above the Earth.

Disagree Noah was still down here. Earth is dry land. The water covering dry land, was the destruction of the Earth.
No, wind and turbulence is not mentioned as Noah was lifted up or as Noah was above the mountain tops.

All good. We disagree. I will be raptured BEFORE God sends His Tribulations and Wrath upon the inhabitants OF the Earth for their unrighteousness. Rom 1:18

Should you desire to be On earth during Gods Tribulation and Wrath, perhaps you will get what you want. God is Just in giving people what is their hearts desire.

@Taken The Lord Jesus promised His followers tribulation in the world but also assured them that He had overcome the world; John 16.33.

 

[Timtofly]

There's a difference between when the Bible says "MANY of the bodies of the saints" and when you imply "ALL of the bodies of the saints", right?

Jesus did not leave any soul in Abraham's bosom. Jesus did not do a half way job of a resurrection. Not all the OT redeemed were buried in Jerusalem.

Jesus never said, "As soon as all the Christians of that last generation, gather in Jerusalem, He would return".

 

[Davy]

Revelation 20:9-10 represents the second coming, last day judgment (The End)

Funny, since what you are suggesting completely discards the "thousand years" period declared in the first parts of that Revelation 20 chapter. I know you are on the false Amillennial theory from men's doctrines that teaches that baloney. Just to let others here also know where you are coming from.

 

[Timtofly]

The stones that were one upon another were not thrown down?

They are still there today. Who put them back?

I know you don't - that's why I told the other person I like that you recognize the problem with chopping off the entire week which the rest of the Jesuit Futurist world can't seem to come to terms with.

However, we can't chop the last 3.5 year off, either. Jesus fulfilled the entire 70 Weeks prophecy and the Bible and many many Bible commentators will tell you.

They are all wrong, because this earth is still under the bondage of sin. Until Jesus is King those promises to Israel remain unfulfilled about Daniel's 70th week.

 

[Davy]

No, it is the failure of many to see the church removed at the Second Coming.

Removed to where? To Heaven off the earth? Nope! Afraid not, no such idea as that is written in God's Word. (I think you well know it too). Zechariah 14 tells us exactly where Jesus is returning BACK TO THIS EARTH TO, bringing all His saints with Him, which is the day of His gathering His Church, on the LAST DAY of this present world.

 

[Davy]

Exactly correct, the sheep are saved, the goats are unsaved (Two Groups) its that simple

There are Two destinations (The Eternal Kingdom) for the sheep, and the (Lake Of Fire) for the goats

Matthew 25:31-46 below is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne Judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15 spoken to herdsmen

You will closely note verse 46 below, the "Final Judgement" has taken place in "Everlasting Punishment" and "Eternal Life" (The End)

Matthew 25:31-46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

There is still a "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign with His elect before... the goats go into the future "lake of fire", and this is well written of in Revelation 20.

 

[Timtofly]

If it looks like df, and walks like df, and talks like df,

then ______ .

Then you have made it all up in your head.

 

[Timtofly]

Scripture interprets Scripture, so there must be at least one other NT reference supporting your blooming speculation.

Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

No blooms there.

Matthew 21
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

No blooms there.

Your blooming speculation is a blooming disaster.

Then your blindness will continue.

 

[Davy]

Well Satan goes to, and gets booted out of heaven constantly. That is an ongoing phenomenon. The point is that Satan is not going to purposely introduce himself before the Second Coming.

That of course is not written. What is written is that for the end of this world, in prep for the time of the end (for the "great tribulation"), Satan and his angels are booted out of the heavenly down to the earth BECAUSE OF the war in Heaven of Revelation 12:7-9. That war in Heaven has not taken place yet today. It is for the near future, for the start of the trib time. And Satan MOST DEFINITELY is coming to this earth PRIOR to Christ's 2nd coming. That is even what Apostle Paul shows in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9, so I don't know why you would lie against the Scriptures about that.

2 Thess 2:8-9
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV

The Lord shall consume "that Wicked" (one) with the spirit of His mouth? and will destroy that Wicked one with the brightness of HIS coming? Why have you not believed what Apostle Paul said there about Jesus' future coming to destroy that Antichrist at the end?