The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Phoneman777]

Then explain why you have provided ZERO scripture saying the mark is Sunday worship.

If you want to know what the Mark of the Beast is, you've first got to identify WHO the Beast is...and the Bible plainly identifies the Papacy as the Beast, as was taught for 300+ solid years by Protestants everywhere.

So, just ask the Beast what it's "Mark" is, OK?

"Sunday is our MARK of authority. The (catholic) Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact".​

 

[Phoneman777]

Since it is not true and you don't even define a different tribulation than they do, you are still all following human theology and not the Word of God.

You don't know what I believe, so how can you make such a statement?

 

[marks]

Sorry, there's no "harpadzo" there.

apostasia

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 646: ἀποστασία

ἀποστασία, ἀποστασιας, ἡ (ἀφισταμαι), a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

"harpadzo" is the Lexical form, this is where the word appears in Future Passsive form.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not at all, friend.

Just saying how it seems to me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Personally, since "Eschatiology" is nopthing but a "religious way" of saying "Rank Speculation".

Well than I expect you don't get to much into the end times prophecies.

For me, Bible study is of the whole of Scripture, I don't like to leave anything out. But we are not all supposed to be the same, is how it seems to me.

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

View attachment 24236
"harpadzo" is the Lexical form, this is where the word appears in Future Passsive form.

Much love!

We're examining 2 Thessalonians 2:3, not 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

There's no "harpadzo" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

 

[marks]

If Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism was true and people who were fully convinced they were saved like the OSAS crowd got left behind, you don't think their entire world would be shattered into a bazillion pieces? They would absolutely be destroyed. In their "disillusioned" state, they'd desperately be looking around in the midst of chaos for answers, and eventually wind up running straight into the arms of the "angel of light" Lucifer who's come to impersonate Jesus.

And these are unbelievers, not the born again.

So we are not talking about the disillusionment of the spirit children of God. The real Christians are caught up, and the rest are here on the earth to endure the 70th week.

And if pre-trib is wrong, and I'm here as the plagues begin . . . do you suppose the Holy Spirit within me is incapable to keep me? I don't. I trust God with much bigger things than this!

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

The (catholic) Church is above the Bible

That would rank as an "abomination of desecration" of the Word.

 

[marks]

We're examining 2 Thessalonians 2:3, not 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

There's no "harpadzo" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

I'm talking about the Pre-Trib rapture. I know "harpadzo" doesn't appear in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. But that's not the only place we're looking at here.

Not one English Bible version so much as hints at a rapture.

I've shown you where the English Bible does tell us of the rapture, and the words it uses. So then you move the goal posts, There's no rapture in 2 Thess. 2:3. OK, on that we agree. The word does not appear there.

Much love!

 

[Enoch111]

You said there is no "rapture" in the Bible, isn't that right? Well, there is.

Correct. This assertion (which you have quoted) has become rather common, and also rather annoying. It actually reveals gross ignorance. The Resurrection/Rapture is one of the key doctrines of the Bible, but those who hate the truth attack it endlessly.

 

[marks]

Apostasia, from Apo, away from, and Stao, I stand. As a conjoined word, "away from standing", that is, "departure".

While you can argue it should be interpretted as rebellion, is there any one here who recognizes that this is the actual meaning of the word?

Isn't that a necessary element of an honest discussion?

Much love!

 

[covenantee]

So then you move the goal posts

My goal posts have never moved off 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

There's no rapture in 2 Thess. 2:3. OK, on that we agree. The word does not appear there.

Glad you agree.

 

[covenantee]

Apostasia, from Apo, away from, and Stao, I stand. As a conjoined word, "away from standing", that is, "departure".

While you can argue it should be interpretted as rebellion, is there any one here who recognizes that this is the actual meaning of the word?

Isn't that a necessary element of an honest discussion?

Much love!

We see no such meaning either in Strong/Thayer or every English Bible version.

That's more than sufficiently convincing for me.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Well than I expect you don't get to much into the end times prophecies.

I used to hang the charts for the "End times" teachers, in our churches, and listened to basket loads of 'em in the '60s.

Bottom line: every time there's a "Revival", or "Hard times", folks start going on about the "Rapture", and whether it's "Pre, Post, mid, or "A" trib.

One of the companies that sold "Revelation food" back in the '70s (dried food for when you couldn't buy or sell) would sell you a 3-1/2 year supply, but SUGGESTED that you buy a 7 year supply in case you're wrong. They didn't include a gun to shoot your starving Christian neighbor when he tried to get some of your food, though.

I still have my copy of "88 reasons", that PROVES SCRIPTURALLY beyond any doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the feast of trumpets in 1988. Oops. And they only took Harold Camping's billboard on Hampton Road down 9 years ago after May 21, 2011 (or October 21) didn't happen either.

For me, Bible study is of the whole of Scripture, I don't like to leave anything out. But we are not all supposed to be the same, is how it seems to me.

Much love![/QUOTE]

 

[Keraz]

Correct. This assertion (which you have quoted) has become rather common, and also rather annoying. It actually reveals gross ignorance. The Resurrection/Rapture is one of the key doctrines of the Bible, but those who hate the truth attack it endlessly.

I know the Bible quite well, many years of intensive study.
I reject any 'rapture to heaven' belief, as not only is such a thing never prophesied to happen, but Jesus said 7 times; that it was impossible.

My reason for teaching and posting against the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, is not to criticize or 'hate' anyone, but a desire to help my fellow Christians, who have been deceived by false teachings. As we are told will happen, Matthew 24:4, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

We are plainly told to stand firm in our faith and to endure until the end. Matthew 24:13, Revelation 13:10
Christians will not and cannot be bodily removed from this earth. Heaven is a place for Spirit beings and 'rapture to heaven' believers, of whatever timing; know this, so their answer to that is: we are 'changed' and made immortal at the moment of rapture. This ignores the plain scripture of Revelation 20:11-15, of how it is only at the Great White Throne Judgement, that immortality is conferred to those whose names are found in the Book of Life. The 'change at the twinkle of an eye', in Corinthians 15, is a prophecy about what happens at the GWT, AFTER the Millennium.

Re the word 'escape' in Luke 21:36. This is rendered as 'pass safely through' in the Revised English Bible.
Although 'escape' is one way of translating the Greek word there, to do that is to directly conflict with the context of the immediately preceding verse 35, that says what will happen; 'will come upon everyone the whole world over'. The REB correctly renders Luke 21:34-36.

Certainly, verse 36 does not even hint of a rapture to heaven; that has to be imposed onto the text.

Re; Revelation 3:10. Being 'kept from', doesn't mean taken away from. The 3 men in the fiery furnace weren't taken out of it, they were protected in it. Noah went thru the Flood, people today face persecution; it’s simply illogical to even think that suddenly God will allow His people to 'escape, away from’, trials and testing, let alone take them all up to heaven before Judgement!

The other aspect of a 'rapture to heaven', is what does God really want of His people? We have the Great Commission. Matthew 28:19 When did, or when will, God rescind that?


So what will the Lord do for His faithful people?
Most will know that I point out how the Lord's holy people, that is: every faithful Christian, will be gathered into all of the holy Land, Psalm 107, Ezekiel 34:11-16, where they will be the people God always wanted in His Land, being His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-15

I have plenty of Biblical proofs of this. It is what will happen, any other belief is deception and false teaching.

 

[marks]

We see no such meaning either in Strong/Thayer or every English Bible version.

That's more than sufficiently convincing for me.

Actually, that's not true about every English Bible version. I believe the Geneva Bible translated that as "departure".

Still, that IS what the word means, it's how it was used in other Greek writings, notably, Aristophanes (the Classical Greek equivalent to Shakespear) used it in his play, The Birds, to describe two men's plan to "fly up to the bird city in the sky", their "apostasia". Interesting, isn't it?

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Agree.

Well said.

@Taken These seem simple and apparent principles, indeed, although a lot of readers seem just to miss them.

 

[marks]

I still have my copy of "88 reasons", that PROVES SCRIPTURALLY beyond any doubt that the rapture WILL HAPPEN during the feast of trumpets in 1988

Seriously? No it didn't! I had that book too, I had long collected such things, until I downsized. But no, I don't agree that it proved such a thing. It gave a man's theory, which was wrong.

Just like many are debating over Jesus' deity, and they have theories, but they are wrong, but that doesn't mean Jesus isn't God! And because people have wrong ideas of the end times doesn't mean it's not going to happen like He said.

Though I understand if someone hears lots of bad teaching on something the burn out factor.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

It makes no sense that because I expect to either die or be raptured that I'm going to end up worshiping antichrist.

Pure malarkey!

I'd suggest dropping that from your argument, myself.

Much love!

Like I showed from Luke 17, the actual meaning of the first one TAKEN... is about those who will be where the fowls are gathered to feast on the dead. That's Jesus' answer to His disciples question of where they those taken go to, it's not my opinion.

Thus the Left-behind and first one taken theories the Pre-trib Rapture doctors preach is a lie, and can put one's soul in danger of being gathered like a dead carcase (Matthew 24:28; Luke 17:37).

 

[farouk]

Actually, that's not true about every English Bible version. I believe the Geneva Bible translated that as "departure".

Still, that IS what the word means, it's how it was used in other Greek writings, notably, Aristophanes (the Classical Greek equivalent to Shakespear) used it in his play, The Birds, to describe two men's plan to "fly up to the bird city in the sky", their "apostasia". Interesting, isn't it?

Much love!

@marks The Geneva can be a good point of reference.....

Interesting that Bible versions do not exist in a vacuum, but are influenced by - or differ from - existing ones in the same language, as the case may be....