The Pre-Trib Rapture

[Taken]

I have. I read Matthew 13.

I did not challenge if you had read Matthew 13.
My comment was STUDY.

 

[farouk]

Study closer.

@Taken It is hard to see how 1 Corinthians 11.26 refers to anything other than a future event linked with the church: 'Till He come...'

 

[Taken]

@Taken It is hard to see how 1 Corinthians 11.26 refers to anything other than a future event linked with the church: 'Till He come...'

Yes. Multiples scriptures in context and harmony, reveals the whole of the truth. Ie Study.

 

[Timtofly]

I did not challenge if you had read Matthew 13.
My comment was STUDY.

Jesus Christ is on earth during the final harvest, Revelation describes as the Trumpets and Thunders.

 

[Taken]

Jesus Christ is on earth during the final harvest, Revelation describes as the Trumpets and Thunders.

Which Trump?

 

[Timtofly]

Which Trump?

Revelation 8-9.

 

[Truth7t7]

Which Trump?

Donald J. Trump 2024

 

[Truth7t7]

He also used the example of Sodom where the killing was localized rather than global. At least fire was used in that one.

No global slaughter at the second coming, with promises that the nations will survive to be ruled over by a rod of iron. This global slaughter thing is a non-biblical invention of Amillennialism. You are forced to ignore that RULE in Revelation 19 is future tense. You have to ignore even addressing this so you can defend your doctrine.

"Global" The Earth Is Burned, The World And All That Dwells Therein

How Long Will You Deny The Simple Truth Of Scripture

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

 

[ewq1938]

"Global" The Earth Is Burned

Not global at the second coming.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not global at the second coming.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Your In Denial Of The (Global Destruction)

Nahum 1:5 clearly shows the Lord's second coming and buying of the whole earth, you want Luke 17:30 be localized to one location "Wrong" the whole of scripture teaches a global destruction, you're in denial of scriptural truth

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[ewq1938]

Your In Denial Of The (Global Destruction)

There is no such thing at the second coming.

 

[Taken]

Which Trump?

Revelation 8-9.

Jesus Christ is on earth during the final harvest, Revelation describes as the Trumpets and Thunders.

Still don’t see Jesus Christ on earth, or the final harvest, in Rev 8 or 9.

 

[Taken]

Donald J. Trump 2024

Trump sounded in 2020, many did not hear.
Observe the World chaos.
Parallel foreshadowing?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He also used the example of Sodom where the killing was localized rather than global. At least fire was used in that one.

You obviously weren't following the discussion very closely. I was talking about what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:5-7. You must be assuming I was talking about what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39.

No global slaughter at the second coming, with promises that the nations will survive to be ruled over by a rod of iron. This global slaughter thing is a non-biblical invention of Amillennialism.

No, it was taught by Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12, by Jesus in Matthew 24:37-39, by Paul in 2 Thess 1:7-10 and by John in Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 20:9.

You are forced to ignore that RULE in Revelation 19 is future tense. You have to ignore even addressing this so you can defend your doctrine.

Yes, in the future Jesus will destroy all of His enemies at His return. Revelation 19:15 describes this as Him smiting them all with a sharp sword coming out of His mouth, ruling/breaking them with a rod of iron and treading on them with a winepress in the fury of the wrath of God. So, you are completely ignoring the context of Revelation 19:11-21 which shows Jesus destroying all of His enemies. How can He rule over them after destroying all of them?

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

 

[ewq1938]

You obviously weren't following the discussion very closely.

You should be more specific.

I was talking about what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:5-7. You must be assuming I was talking about what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37-39.

Which speaks of the day of the Great White Throne Judgement (GWTJ), not the day of the second coming.

No, it was taught by Peter in 2 Peter 3:10-12, by Jesus in Matthew 24:37-39, by Paul in 2 Thess 1:7-10 and by John in Revelation 19:17-18 and Revelation 20:9.

No scripture teaches a global slaughter at the second coming. Revelation 2 and 19-20 specifically promise the survivors of the second coming will be ruled over. Ignoring those verses leads one to this type of false understanding of end times events.

Yes, in the future Jesus will destroy all of His enemies at His return.

Not one scripture says that.

Revelation 19:15 describes this as Him smiting them all with a sharp sword coming out of His mouth, ruling/breaking them with a rod of iron and treading on them with a winepress in the fury of the wrath of God.

He kills an entire army at Armageddon but the RULE over the nations is in the future tense, something Amillennialism always ignores.

So, you are completely ignoring the context of Revelation 19:11-21 which shows Jesus destroying all of His enemies. How can He rule over them after destroying all of them?

You are the one who has the context wrong. Context is an army killed at Armageddon which is 66 miles from Jerusalem. That is a small, localized slaughter.

 

[Timtofly]

Still don’t see Jesus Christ on earth, or the final harvest, in Rev 8 or 9.

Because he came at the 6th Seal. Don't see Christians hanging out either, do you? The 144k are on the earth. They are with Christ.

 

[Taken]

Because he came at the 6th Seal.

Scripture that says that?

 

[The Light]

Scripture that says that?

Yes Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

[Taken]

Yes Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:[/QUOTE]

Rev 6
IS the Tribulation of THOSE DAYS...The WRATH of the LAMB.

The Son of man returning at Rev 6? No.

You Skipped; the Tribulation of the FOLLOWING DAYS...
Rev 7: 1-17
Rev 8: 1-13
Rev 9: 1-21
Rev 10: 1-11
Rev 11: 1-19
Rev 12: 1-17
Rev 13: 1-18
Rev 14: 1-13

Rev 14:14 is the First SIGN of the Son of Man....IN THE CLOUDS...
NOT ON Earth.

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

More Tribulation of the FOLLOWING Days AFTER Rev. 14:14

 

[ewq1938]

Yes Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

But Matthew 24 was earlier...why didn't Christ come during Matthew 24? It speaks of the sun and moon being darkened and the stars falling.