The Pre-Trib Rapture

[GRACE ambassador]

op: Pre-trib rapture - back on topic:

The rapture is mid trib, pre wrath, pre mark, and premillennial.

1) Actually There Are TWO raptures MID-trib:

a) one departure is of the TWO witnesses, killed,
resurrected, and taken up (Rev 11:1-12)

b) the other departure is of the 144,000 "sealed
virgins of TWELVE tribes (Rev 7:1-8) redeemed
from the earth," and were "without fault before
The Throne of God!" (Rev 14:1-5), and:​

2) ONE Great GRACE Departure = Post-GRACE! - Please Be Very
Richly Encouraged, Edified, and Comforted With These Words!:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In God's Other Context:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

To be continued...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Part II

(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The [Last GRACE] Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)
Note: The First GRACE Trump (Voice) Of God, Was In Acts 9:4!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace! The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[Davy]

op: Pre-trib rapture - back on topic:

1) Actually There Are TWO raptures MID-trib:

a) one departure is of the TWO witnesses, killed,
resurrected, and taken up (Rev 11:1-12)

b) the other departure is of the 144,000 "sealed
virgins of TWELVE tribes (Rev 7:1-8) redeemed
from the earth," and were "without fault before
The Throne of God!" (Rev 14:1-5), and:​

2) ONE Great GRACE Departure = Post-GRACE! - Please Be Very
Richly Encouraged, Edified, and Comforted With These Words!:

Here we go again...

There is only ONE RETURN by Lord Jesus Christ per God's written Word, and that is on the LAST DAY of this present world. That also is the ONLY time He gathers His Church. It is when the resurrection happens.

God's "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 are killed within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. They arise with the coming of the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, which is the day of Christ's coming and last day of this world.

Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming will be AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints. The Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses directly parallel 1 Thessalonians 4 where Apostle Paul taught about Jesus bringing the asleep resurrected saints with Him when He comes, and then those saints remaining alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and them.

Then Zechariah 14 reveals where Jesus and all His saints are then heading to, i.e., JERUSALEM ON EARTH, upon the Mount of Olives, and there will be a very great valley formed there when Jesus' feet touch down there, which is where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1.

 

[The Light]

Here we go again...

There is only ONE RETURN by Lord Jesus Christ per God's written Word, and that is on the LAST DAY of this present world. That also is the ONLY time He gathers His Church. It is when the resurrection happens.

God's "two witnesses" of Revelation 11 are killed within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. They arise with the coming of the 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe, which is the day of Christ's coming and last day of this world.

Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming will be AFTER the tribulation to gather His saints. The Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 verses directly parallel 1 Thessalonians 4 where Apostle Paul taught about Jesus bringing the asleep resurrected saints with Him when He comes, and then those saints remaining alive on earth are "caught up" to Him and them.

Then Zechariah 14 reveals where Jesus and all His saints are then heading to, i.e., JERUSALEM ON EARTH, upon the Mount of Olives, and there will be a very great valley formed there when Jesus' feet touch down there, which is where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1.

Here we go again....

The Church will be raptured before the seals are opened. That's why it is pre trib. The tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel which is about the people of Daniel. The gathering from heaven and earth is prewrath. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal with the coming of Jesus. Then the wrath of God begins.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Here we go again...
There is only ONE RETURN

Agree, prophecy and law has Only ONE return All the way to the earth,
to save ISRAEL, and judge the nations! (Daniel, Matthew, Revelation)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Mystery And GRACE Has A Descent Only to a Meeting/Gathering
"in the air," and Taken To Judgment and Glorification In Heaven, Of
the "members Of THE BODY Of CHRIST!" (Romans-Philemon!)

Thus, NO "here we go again" beef, eh?

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE and Peace!

 

[Davy]

Agree, prophecy and law has Only ONE return All the way to the earth,
to save ISRAEL, and judge the nations! (Daniel, Matthew, Revelation)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

Mystery And GRACE Has A Descent Only to a Meeting/Gathering
"in the air," and Taken To Judgment and Glorification In Heaven, Of
the "members Of THE BODY Of CHRIST!" (Romans-Philemon!)

Thus, NO "here we go again" beef, eh?

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE and Peace!

If you do not agree with the false multi-rapture idea, then why make a post like you did in #1221?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

If you do not agree with the false multi-rapture idea, then why make a post like you did in #1221?

??? #1221 has Agreement with the true "multi-rapture" Teaching of Scripture!

What are you trying to ask? and:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace! The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[Davy]

??? #1221 has Agreement with the true "multi-rapture" Teaching of Scripture!

What are you trying to ask? and:

There is NO "multi-rapture" teaching in God's Word!

But THAT IDEA is what you are teaching, right?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

There is NO "multi-rapture" teaching in God's Word!

But THAT IDEA is what you are teaching, right?

Correct, Scripture In God's Word Of Truth, Distinctions Of God's TWO Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!!:

In prophecy/law for Twelve tribes of ISRAEL (future):
1) Rev 11:1-12; 2) Rev 7:1-8; Rev 14:1-5

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In Mystery/GRACE For THE BODY OF CHRIST (Current!)

3) 1 Corinthians 15:41-43; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

IF THREE is not Multiple, then I do not what is:

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Davy]

Correct, Scripture In God's Word Of Truth, Distinctions Of God's TWO Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!!:

In prophecy/law for Twelve tribes of ISRAEL (future):
1) Rev 11:1-12; 2) Rev 7:1-8; Rev 14:1-5

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)

In Mystery/GRACE For THE BODY OF CHRIST (Current!)

3) 1 Corinthians 15:41-43; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

IF THREE is not Multiple, then I do not what is:

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

I don't need to go to those links to know there is no such thing written in God's Word about 'multiple raptures'.

The so-called 'rapture', which in my Bible, a KJV, using the term "caught up", is ONLY about one group of saints Jesus gathers on the future day of His 2nd coming.

There are ONLY TWO comings of Christ written of in God's Word, even in The Old Testament (Zechariah 9:9-10).

1. 1st coming -- Jesus born through woman's womb to die on the cross.
2. 2nd coming -- on the LAST DAY of this present world, with His army from Heaven.

That's it! There ain't any more than that written of!

Anyone who says there are more is a FAKE and a CHARLATAN.

 

[The Light]

I don't need to go to those links to know there is no such thing written in God's Word about 'multiple raptures'.

The so-called 'rapture', which in my Bible, a KJV, using the term "caught up", is ONLY about one group of saints Jesus gathers on the future day of His 2nd coming.

There are ONLY TWO comings of Christ written of in God's Word, even in The Old Testament (Zechariah 9:9-10).

1. 1st coming -- Jesus born through woman's womb to die on the cross.
2. 2nd coming -- on the LAST DAY of this present world, with His army from Heaven.

That's it! There ain't any more than that written of!

Anyone who says there are more is a FAKE and a CHARLATAN.

Mmmm. I could post dozens and dozens of scriptures that prove your beliefs are incorrect. But those without ears to hear and eyes to see, do not understand scripture. It's just that simple. The verses I'm posting will prove what you believe is incorrect, but you will not be able to understand them, this is for someone with eyes to see and ears to hear.

2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This is Paul calming the Thessalonians because they were afraid that they were in the day of the Lord. Paul tells them not to be troubled, because the gathering happens BEFORE the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

So you think that the Lord returns at the end of wrath, and the scripture says He is coming BEFORE wrath. Who should those that have ears to hear and eyes to see believe? The word of God or the blind?

Here we see Jesus coming to earth to redeem the 144,000 off the earth.

Rev 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So we can see, well, those that have eyes can see, that Jesus returns to the earth BEFORE the 7th trumpet. I can post verse after verse after verse that prove that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. But you won't be able to understand them, even though they are crystal clear. The blind cannot see. If they can't see, they cannot understand. It's just that simple.

You best get oil in your lamp, the time runs short.

 

[Davy]

Mmmm. I could post dozens and dozens of scriptures that prove your beliefs are incorrect.

NO, you CANNOT post dozens of scriptures to disprove what I said (that there is NO Scripture written about multi-raptures). If you even had... any Scripture proof of what you say, you would have already posted the Scripture evidence.

2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

This is Paul calming the Thessalonians because they were afraid that they were in the day of the Lord. Paul tells them not to be troubled, because the gathering happens BEFORE the Day of the Lord, the day of His wrath.

That's SO STRANGE THAT YOU STOPPED at that 2 Thessalonians 2:2 verse, because Apostle Paul in the next verses reveal Christ doesn't come until AFTER the working of that false one pointed to there...

2 Thess 2:3-8
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

That above shows Apostle Paul taught Jesus' coming AFTER the false working of that "man of sin", which means a post-tribulational coming. Paul was NOT teaching a pre-trib rapture in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter at all! And I'm pretty sure YOU well know it too!

(Sorry brethren, I lost patience with these fakes and charlatans that preach falseness, with their butchering God's written Word on purpose. They have no excuse for what they do.)

Here we see Jesus coming to earth to redeem the 144,000 off the earth.

Rev 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So we can see, well, those that have eyes can see, that Jesus returns to the earth BEFORE the 7th trumpet. I can post verse after verse after verse that prove that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. But you won't be able to understand them, even though they are crystal clear. The blind cannot see. If they can't see, they cannot understand. It's just that simple.

Of course just QUOTING that Rev.14 Scripture and then talking about the 7th trumpet which is explained in ANOTHER CHAPTER, and then running off at the mouth with more irrelevant events not shown in that Rev.14 Scripture, is MORE EVIDENCE OF BEING A CHARLATAN AND TEACHING FALSENESS. At best... it shows you don't even KNOW what God's written Word says!

 

[marks]

1) Actually There Are TWO raptures MID-trib:

a) one departure is of the TWO witnesses, killed,
resurrected, and taken up (Rev 11:1-12)

b) the other departure is of the 144,000 "sealed
virgins of TWELVE tribes (Rev 7:1-8) redeemed
from the earth," and were "without fault before
The Throne of God!" (Rev 14:1-5), and:

I wouldn't call these raptures myself, though I know what you mean. The witnesses are called and ascend into heaven. The 144,000 "move" from Mount Zion to the crystal sea. I think of this as a "translation".

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

NO, you CANNOT post dozens of scriptures to disprove what I said (that there is NO Scripture written about multi-raptures). If you even had... any Scripture proof of what you say, you would have already posted the Scripture evidence.



That's SO STRANGE THAT YOU STOPPED at that 2 Thessalonians 2:2 verse, because Apostle Paul in the next verses reveal Christ doesn't come until AFTER the working of that false one pointed to there...

2 Thess 2:3-8
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

That above shows Apostle Paul taught Jesus' coming AFTER the false working of that "man of sin", which means a post-tribulational coming. Paul was NOT teaching a pre-trib rapture in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter at all! And I'm pretty sure YOU well know it too!

(Sorry brethren, I lost patience with these fakes and charlatans that preach falseness, with their butchering God's written Word on purpose. They have no excuse for what they do.)



Of course just QUOTING that Rev.14 Scripture and then talking about the 7th trumpet which is explained in ANOTHER CHAPTER, and then running off at the mouth with more irrelevant events not shown in that Rev.14 Scripture, is MORE EVIDENCE OF BEING A CHARLATAN AND TEACHING FALSENESS. At best... it shows you don't even KNOW what God's written Word says!

We obviously strongly disagree on some things, but I strongly agree with you on this. The idea of multiple raptures is comical, at best. It's utterly ludicrous and clearly not taught in scripture anywhere. It's barely even worth taking the time to refute such nonsense. And I agree it's complete nonsense for anyone to try to use 2 Thess 2 as support for an imminent pre-trib rapture that could occur at any time when it clearly indicates that certain things have to happen first before the rapture occurs.

 

[The Light]

NO, you CANNOT post dozens of scriptures to disprove what I said (that there is NO Scripture written about multi-raptures). If you even had... any Scripture proof of what you say, you would have already posted the Scripture evidence.

There is so much scriptural evidence that prove you don't have a clue, that I haven't had time to post it all. And you keep making clueless statements that only adds to the fray.

That's SO STRANGE THAT YOU STOPPED at that 2 Thessalonians 2:2 verse, because Apostle Paul in the next verses reveal Christ doesn't come until AFTER the working of that false one pointed to there...

2 Thess 2:3-8
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

That above shows Apostle Paul taught Jesus' coming AFTER the false working of that "man of sin", which means a post-tribulational coming.

EXACTLY. Paul was teaching Jesus comes after the man of sin, for the gathering from heaven and earth, WHICH I HAVE ALREADY SHOWN OCCURS BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD. Be happy to call that a post tribulation rapture. But one of the multitude of things that you don't understand is that the tribulation is OVER AT THE 6TH SEAL, and then the wrath of God begins. Let me post the evidence of that yet one more time.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The tribulation is over at the 6th according to the word of God. And yet, you cannot see.

Paul was NOT teaching a pre-trib rapture in that 2 Thessalonians 2 Chapter at all! And I'm pretty sure YOU well know it too!

Of course I understand that. How is that you don't understand that Paul is talking the gathering from heaven and earth that occurs BEFORE the wrath of God. I've already posted that evidence, and yet, you cannot see.

(Sorry brethren, I lost patience with these fakes and charlatans that preach falseness, with their butchering God's written Word on purpose. They have no excuse for what they do.)

Well, let's see. I posted the verses that show that the gathering occurs BEFORE the day of Lord, the day of His wrath. That proves that there is a rapture before wrath, which also proves you don't know what you are talking about. I didn't have to do anything but post the scripture. It's speaks for itself. Above I have posted scriptures that prove that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. They speak for themselves. The fact that you are unable to understand the written Word of God is no mystery as there are those with ears to hear and eyes to see. And there are some that think that they have replaced Gods Chosen.

Of course just QUOTING that Rev.14 Scripture and then talking about the 7th trumpet which is explained in ANOTHER CHAPTER, and then running off at the mouth with more irrelevant events not shown in that Rev.14 Scripture, is MORE EVIDENCE OF BEING A CHARLATAN AND TEACHING FALSENESS. At best... it shows you don't even KNOW what God's written Word says!

Rev 14 shows that Jesus returns to the earth and raptures the 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. But the blind think that Jesus is only coming at the end of wrath, when it has already been shown that He comes at the 6th seal before wrath. And that doesn't even count when He comes for His bride the Church, before the tribulation.

You might want to pray that you are counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

 

[The Light]

We obviously strongly disagree on some things, but I strongly agree with you on this. The idea of multiple raptures is comical, at best. It's utterly ludicrous and clearly not taught in scripture anywhere. It's barely even worth taking the time to refute such nonsense. And I agree it's complete nonsense for anyone to try to use 2 Thess 2 as support for an imminent pre-trib rapture that could occur at any time when it clearly indicates that certain things have to happen first before the rapture occurs.

You might try paying attention. I did not try to use 2 thes 2 to prove a pretribulation rapture....even Davy picked up on that....somehow. I was showing that Paul said the gathering to the Lord occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord, which of, proves Davy is wrong....again.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You might try paying attention. I did not try to use 2 thes 2 to prove a pretribulation rapture....even Davy picked up on that....somehow.

Well, that's good because it actually disproves it.

I was showing that Paul said the gathering to the Lord occurs BEFORE the day of the Lord, which of, proves Davy is wrong....again.

No, the gathering to the Lord occurs ON the day of the Lord. Paul equated the day of the Lord with the day Christ returns and we're gathered to Him.

 

[The Light]

No, the gathering of the Lord occurs ON the day of the Lord. Paul equated the day of the Lord with the day Christ returns and we're gathered to Him.

2 Thes 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

The point is 2 Thes 2 proves that the gathering occurs BEFORE the wrath of God. This of course proves that Davy does not know what He is talking about as he believes that the Lord will come at the end of wrath AND ONLY THEN. So Davy is wrong AGAIN.

So much blindness to the truth. So little understanding of the Word of God. And then striking out against those that know the truth. He is coming in an hour that you think not. Pray that you are worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

 

[Keraz]

So we can see, well, those that have eyes can see, that Jesus returns to the earth BEFORE the 7th trumpet. I can post verse after verse after verse that prove that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. But you won't be able to understand them, even though they are crystal clear. The blind cannot see. If they can't see, they cannot understand. It's just that simple.

What you don't take cognisance of is how Jesus is with us always, in a spiritual sense; until the end of the age when He will Return physically; seen by everyone.
He will be revealed; as a spirit being, only to His faithful people, soon after His terrible Day of fiery wrath. 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Revelation 14:1

Pray that you are worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the son of man.

Escape all these things?

KJV Luke 21:34-36 Take heed, yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with the surfeit and cares of this life, so that the Day comes upon you unawares. For as a snare, it will come on all those that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch, ye, therefore and pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and so stand before the Son of Man.

NIV Be careful or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation and the anxieties and that Day will close on you unexpectedly, like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

NET Be on your guard, so that your hearts are not weighed down with dissipation and the worries of this life and that Day close down on you like a trap. For it will overtake all who live on the face of the earth. But stay alert at all times, praying that you may have the strength to escape all these things that must happen and to stand before the Son of Man.

REB Be on your guard, do not let your minds be dulled by dissipation and worldly cares, so that the great Day catches you suddenly, like a trap. For that Day will come upon everyone, the whole world over. Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass through all that is coming and to stand in the presence of the Son of Man.

This interesting Bible passage requires careful examination. It is obvious that it refers to the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath – the next prophesied event, then eventually, how we will stand in the Presence of Jesus.

We are informed that ALL who live on the earth will experience this coming Day. Only those who are ‘accounted worthy’ or ‘have the strength’, will ‘pass (safely) through’ or ‘escape all these things’, ‘that shall come to pass’ or ‘that must happen’.

So, this great Day of vengeance and wrath, will happen and judging by the current world situation, especially in the Middle East, that may be quite soon.

This Day ‘will come upon everyone on earth’, so it is incorrect to say that it is possible to ‘escape all these things’. We will not be ‘raptured’, or taken to a ‘place of safety’ on that Day. We are told to pray for strength and stay alert during this terrifying time. Before it happens, in the short time that we have left of the present dispensation, we ‘must not let worldly cares weigh us down’, so that the Day does not catch us without fore warning and unprepared. If you know what is coming, you are not shocked and terrified, you make preparations, you stay calm, trusting in God to keep you safe. Isaiah 30:15

Therefore the REB gives the correct translation.

To recap: many prophesies speak of this great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, which will come suddenly and unexpectedly upon the whole world. What best fits the descriptions?

Nuclear explosions? No, because even a large bomb only destroys up to a certain radius.

Comet strike? Possible, as that would cause worldwide effects. This will happen during the Tribulation period. Revelation 8:8-11.

Coronal mass ejection? Yes, a massive CME fits all the prophecies and does not leave radiation.

Isaiah 30:26a....the sun will shine with seven times its usual brightness.....

No other explanation that a CME can be inferred from that prophecy. But then;

Isaiah 30:26b... on the Day the Lord heals His people....

The promise is given that on this Day, the Lord will save and protect His righteous people.

Joel 3:16 The Lord roars from Zion and thunders from Jerusalem, so that the heaven and the earth shudder, but He is a refuge for His people, a defence for the Israelites.

 

[ewq1938]

What you don't take cognisance of is how Jesus is with us always, in a spiritual sense; until the end of the age when He will Return physically; seen by everyone.
He will be revealed; as a spirit being, only to His faithful people, soon after His terrible Day of fiery wrath. 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Revelation 14:1

Zero fire in those verses. There is no such thing as a firery day of wrath in the NT end times.