The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

[Bible Highlighter]

Looks to me like a whole lot of reasoning and supposing! Better get it together BH!

It’s not supposing anything. It’s simply connecting the dots by pure logical deduction. Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing in Galatians 5:2. Paul said what profit is there in circumcision in Romans 3:1. Paul said in Galatians 2:3 that he did not compel Titus who was a Gentile to be circumcised. This obviously plays into Acts of the Apostles 15:1 that talks about how Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be initially circumcised to be saved. To refuse to see this truth after being shown it, means one is simply rejecting the Bible to create a sin and still be saved doctrine (Which is what you prefer). For if my interpretation defended your sin and still be saved type belief, I am sure you would be a greater chance of you giving me the thumbs up.

Rom. 11:5-6

This is talking to Israel who had a Works based mindset. For it was the Jews who were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be circumcised to be initially saved. So when Paul says it is of works it is no more grace he is referring to Works ALONE Salvationism (via by the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism that had invaded the church).

"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

When you add works to Grace, Grace is no longer Grace!

If this was the only passage in the Bible, you might then be on to something. Anyone can make the Bible say anything they want if they read verses or passages in a vacuum. But good Bereans look at the whole counsel of God’s Word. You ignore Paul’s words in Titus 1:16 that says that one can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. Meaning, the reverse if that truth is: Works is a part of knowing God; And we know by Scripture that knowing God is a part of salvation (See: John 17:3).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not all. Romans 14.

No. Romans 14 is in regards to the kind of foods one can eat, and or what type of day of worship they are to observe. In other words, Romans 14 is dealing with the matters of how one views the Old Law. In other words, there is a liberty when it comes to the Old Law as long as we don’t make our brother to stumble in our liberty.

 

[Charlie24]

It’s not supposing anything. It’s simply connecting the dots by pure logical deduction. Paul said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing in Galatians 5:2. Paul said what profit is there in circumcision in Romans 3:1. Paul said in Galatians 2:3 that he did not compel Titus who was a Gentile to be circumcised. This obviously plays into Acts of the Apostles 15:1 that talks about how Jews were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be initially circumcised to be saved. To refuse to see this truth after being shown it, means one is simply rejecting the Bible to create a sin and still be saved doctrine.



This is talking to Israel who had a Works based mindset. For it was the Jews who were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be circumcised to be initially saved. So when Paul says it is of works it is no more grace he is referring to Works ALONE Salvationism (via by the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism that had invaded the church).



If this was the only passage in the Bible, you might then be on to something. Anyone can make the Bible say anything they want if they read verses or passages in a vacuum. But good Bereans look at the whole counsel of God’s Word. You ignore Paul’s words in Titus 1:16 that says that one can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. Meaning, the reverse if that truth is: Works is a part of knowing God; And we know by Scripture that knowing God is a part of salvation (See: John 17:3).

More reasoning and supposing! Didn't know you were so far from understanding Grace.

Your posts are the result of what happens when Grace is not first and foremost in the heart of the believer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

More reasoning and supposing! Didn't know you were so far from understanding Grace.

Your posts are the result of what happens when Grace is not first and foremost in the heart of the believer.

I understand grace just fine. Your understanding only comes from Protestantism (Which serves your own interests in the fact that you can sin and still be saved). But God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).

For I brought forth verses that explains the truth of things and yet you really have not offered any counter replies with Scripture that refutes them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

More reasoning and supposing! Didn't know you were so far from understanding Grace.

Your posts are the result of what happens when Grace is not first and foremost in the heart of the believer.

For example: How do you explain away Romans 8:13?

 

[Charlie24]

For example: How do you explain away Romans 8:13?

Well, we've found one of your problems.

The flesh Paul is referring to is the dependence on self, in other words, works of your own ability.

But on the other hand, if you depend on the Holy Spirit and not self to put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

Paul did not say we will stop sinning, he said that sin will not have dominion over us. Rom. 6:14

 

[Charlie24]

For example: How do you explain away Romans 8:13?

Let me add something so very important, BH.

If you depend on self in any capacity to gain victory over sin, you will not make it into Glory!

That is the job of the Holy Spirit and Him alone! Everything is provided for us through faith!

If you don't believe that, you can kiss it all goodbye!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well, we've found one of your problems.

The flesh Paul is referring to is the dependence on self, in other words, works of your own ability.

But on the other hand, if you depend on the Holy Spirit and not self to put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live.

No. That is not correct, dear sir.

Romans 6:19 says,
“I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.”

What is the infirmity of your flesh?

Romans 7:25 (NTE)
“Thank God – through Jesus our king and Lord! So then, left to my own self I am enslaved to God’s law with my mind, but to sin’s law with my human flesh.”

Romans 7:25 (GNT)
“Thanks be to God, who does this through our Lord Jesus Christ! This, then, is my condition: on my own I can serve God's law only with my mind, while my human nature serves the law of sin.”

What is being “enslaved… to sin’s law with my human flesh” mean?

This then runs right into Romans 8:1 that talks about how there is no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The context of the word flesh in Romans 8:1 is taken from the previous verse (Romans 7:25), which is clearly in reference to sin.

Romans 13:14 says:
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.”

What is the…. “Make not provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts” mean?

Clearly this is in reference to sin because making provision for the flesh is placing things in our life to stumble or fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

For example: Watching certain TV shows or movies can make a provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof because they have either nudity, scantily clad women, and or fornication in them. It’s making a provision for the lusts of the flesh.

Here is another one.

Galatians 5:19-21
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Did you catch that?

It says that the works of the flesh are manifest which are these… and then Paul lists various sins to describe what these works of the flesh are.

Paul did not say we will stop sinning, he said that sin will not have dominion over us. Rom. 6:14

What does Paul mean sin will not have dominion over us in Romans 6:14?

Romans 6:6-7 says,
“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

We must die to ourself. We must pick up our cross, deny ourselves and follow Jesus.

Romans 6:17-18 says,
“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.”

Being made free from sin means you have become servants to God with having fruit unto holiness and the end…. Everlasting life.

Romans 6:22
“But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”

Do you have fruit unto holiness?
We as believers must have this if we are to have an end that is everlasting life.

Romans 6:16
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”

Please take no offense, but by what you have written so far, I don’t so how you can actually believe the plain words as they are written above here in Romans 6:16. Why? Well, Paul is saying a similar thing that John said in 1 John 3:7, and 1 John 3:8. Do you believe those words by John?

Take for example the words of Jesus in John chapter 8.
In John 8: Jesus said to the Jews, whoever commits sin is a slave (or servant) to sin (John 8:34). In context: Jesus insulted the Jews here and said to them, “You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do.” (John 8:44). Meaning, they were controlled by sin, and because of that, their father was the devil. In John 8: Jesus said, “And the servant (slave) abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides forever.” (John 8:35). Meaning, a person who is a slave to sin will not abide in the house of God forever. So Christians who justify sin (weeds) will be gathered out of the Lord’s Kingdom by Christ’s angels and they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Also see: Matthew 13:41-42).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let me add something so very important, BH.

If you depend on self in any capacity to gain victory over sin, you will not make it into Glory!

That is the job of the Holy Spirit and Him alone! Everything is provided for us through faith!

If you don't believe that, you can kiss it all goodbye!

Where did I ever say at any point in my writings that we as believers are to use our power alone to obey God and or gain victory over sin?
I didn’t and therefore that was a false assumption or accusation on your part.
I believe 100% in that God does the good work through the believer (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5) (Romans 8:13), and it is God alone who can help us overcome sin and prevent us from stumbling. But most in the Protestant camp really don’t believe that fully because they think they are slaves to unrighteousness in this life based on a faulty interpretation of 1 John 1:8.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Charlie24

I would encourage you to watch this video.
This pastor talks about Romans 6.

 

[Taken]

Many today falsely teach a form of Justification (Being saved by God’s grace by believing in Jesus as their Savior or the finished work of the cross) in that they believe that this is total removal of the penalty of sin (in regards to even future sin) once for all (Whereby they never need to worry about sin jeopardizing their soul ever again).

Being Sav-ED, signifies Conversion accomplish-ED.
Convert-ED, reveals the Spirit of God is “IN” them.
Yes They are FOREVER kept FREE from Sin, BY the Spirit of God “IN” them.
Yes They are Justifi-ED to be risen in Glory.
No, Not false.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

Another point I wanted to add that many ignore is this. While God does do the good work through the believer (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5), we also have to realize that Paul says to Timothy three times using the word “I” as in reference to himself in regards to the faith.

2 Timothy 4:7-8 says:
“I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Notice again what Paul says.

I have fought a good fight.
I have finished my course (race).
I have kept the faith.

Henceforth (Therefore), there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness.

Now, lets read 1 Timothy 6:12. It says this:

“Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,…” (1 Timothy 6:12).

Are you fighting the good fight of faith thereby laying hold on eternal life?
Many Christians today do not even know they are in a fight whereby they are to lay hold on eternal life. They are ignorant of the Scriptures and the power of God thereof.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Most Christians do not realize that they must put on the whole armor of God to be able to overcome the devil’s schemes according to Ephesians 6.

Read Ephesians 6 several times in prayer. Really focus on what on each of the pieces of armor does for your life and how that protects us from the schemes or strategies of the devil. For if we were Once Saved Always Saved, or we can sin and still be saved, then no armor of God would really be needed. But we are in a spiritual battle and there is a great roaring lion seeking to devour many.

 

[Charlie24]

Where did I ever say at any point in my writings that we as believers are to use our power alone to obey God and or gain victory over sin?
I didn’t and therefore that was a false assumption or accusation on your part.
I believe 100% in that God does the good work through the believer (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5) (Romans 8:13), and it is God alone who can help us overcome sin and prevent us from stumbling. But most in the Protestant camp really don’t believe that fully because they think they are slaves to unrighteousness in this life based on a faulty interpretation of 1 John 1:8.

Why did Paul say "I die daily?"

He was dying to his ability to live a Christian life in any capacity. Allowing the Holy Spirit to guide him by 100% faith in Christ.

Why did Christ say this?

Luke 9:23-24

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."

It's the same thing Paul was doing, denying his ability to live the Christian life and depending on Christ 100% of the waY.

We do this by "taking up the Cross, daily" that means to lean on the Cross not your abilities to do.

If you deny your abilities to live this life with your "doing" and lean on the Cross, allowing the Holy Spirit to bring it to pass, you will save your life, eternal life.

Does this sound familiar with Paul "if you live by the flesh you shall die, but if you by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live?

It must be 100% faith in Christ or it is nothing!

.

 

[mailmandan]

Correct, he didn't. But we know which definition of 'justified' he is addressing by this:

"Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds." James 2:18
​

He uses the example of Abraham, justified by his faith apart from works in Genesis 15:6 then being justified by his works in Genesis 22:12, at which time the angel of the Lord exclaims, “now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from me.” when he saw Abraham's obedience. James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

Amen! James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Just as you said: James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) James 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works, and not by faith only (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works) hence, the only.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

 

[mailmandan]

..It must be 100% faith in Christ or it is nothing!

Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. This explains why the gate is narrow that leads to life and few find it. (Matthew 7:14; John 10:9; 14:6)

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow such people (works-salvationists) to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[Charlie24]

Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost. This explains why the gate is narrow that leads to life and few find it. (Matthew 7:14; John 10:9; 14:6)

That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for many people to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

It is man's natural instinct to "do something," take some part in his salvation. This will not and cannot lead to life.

It's self made Law that they must do along with Grace, and that makes faith void.

Rom. 4:14

"For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"

 

[Charlie24]

Amen! James is not using the word "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Just as you said: James is clearly addressing the issue of justification in regard to being shown to be righteous, not being made righteous as Paul uses the term.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) James 2:24 - You see then that a man is justified (shown to be righteous) by works, and not by faith only (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works) hence, the only.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

Excellent!

 

[Robert Gwin]

Sorry Bro. God gave the law to lead us to christ as Paul said. Becaise it proves everyone a sinner, and as paul scripture pretty such says, Shuts there mouth, Because all are guilty before God

The law is only done away if you have come to Christ. If your trying to work your way to heaven, you have not yet come to Christ, and your still under law.

The Law covenant was indeed a tutor leading to the Christ sir. Make no mistake not one individual who goes to heaven has not "worked" for God, in fact they are extremely zealous in their service to Jehovah otherwise they would not have been selected.

Jesus made it quite clear however, that doing, yes doing the will of Jehovah is essential in having a relationship with Him, and by our obedience to His laws we show our love for Him 1 Jn 5:3. You can accept the assignment or not, but if you choose not to, do not be surprised where you hear the words of Jesus echoed in your case: (Matthew 25:24-30) . . .“Finally the slave who had received the one talent came forward and said: ‘Master, I knew you to be a demanding man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. 25 So I grew afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours.’ 26 In reply his master said to him: ‘Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow? 27 Well, then, you should have deposited my money with the bankers, and on my coming I would have received it back with interest. 28 “‘Therefore, take the talent away from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But the one who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 30 And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.’

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why did Paul say "I die daily?"

He was dying to his ability to live a Christian life in any capacity. Allowing the Holy Spirit to guide him by 100% faith in Christ.

However, if you believe in Protestantism: You really don’t believe in the 100% guidance of the Holy Spirit for the believer’s life. According to the Protestant man made religion: You believe that you must sin again as per 1 John 1:8 and so no 100% guidance by the Spirit fully is possible for you.

Also, if you believe you can sin and still be saved (according to the fantasy world of Protestantism), you are teaching others (even children) to treat sin no more dangerous as a fluffy kitten and you can lead children into thinking they can treat God’s grace as a license for immorality on some level (whether you want that to happen or not). But Jesus says, “It is better for him if a millstone is hung around his neck and he is thrown into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble.” (Luke 17:2).

Anyways, what did Paul mean when he said, “I die daily?”

1 Corinthians 15:31 NKJV
“I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.”

Why did Paul say this?

In the immediate context, Paul is saying that he dies to his own desires (like sin, or his own thoughts) and he conforming to his baptism (Which pictures the death of Christ - See: 1 Corinthians 15:29, Romans 6:3). For by Paul’s dying to himself, he will then one day be risen after the likeness of Christ’s resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:36 NASB
“You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;”

The same concept is shown in Romans 8:13 (that you ignore).

Romans 8:13 NIV
“For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.”

So if we put death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Spirit, we will live (be raised up with Christ and live eternally).

For Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 9:27,
“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.”

Meaning, if Paul does not keep his body from sinning, he can also be a castaway (as he preaches to others). Meaning, he will no longer be saved.

For that which will be raised must die (1 Corinthians 15:36).

1 Corinthians 15:34 says:
“Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.”

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says:
“Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

Luke 9:23-24

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it."
It's the same thing Paul was doing, denying his ability to live the Christian life and depending on Christ 100% of the waY.

We do this by "taking up the Cross, daily" that means to lean on the Cross not your abilities to do.

If you deny your abilities to live this life with your "doing" and lean on the Cross, allowing the Holy Spirit to bring it to pass, you will save your life, eternal life.

Does this sound familiar with Paul "if you live by the flesh you shall die, but if you by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live?

Here is the problem with this line of thinking. Jesus was not advocating any kind of sin and still be saved type belief with the disciples.
Jesus said pick up your cross (suffer), deny yourself (your desires like sin and or your own thoughts), and follow Jesus.
Following Jesus is not believing in the finished work of the cross. Jesus never said in context to just believe on Him as equating with following Jesus. Following Jesus means to literally follow the life of Christ in the moral life that He lived.

“He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.” (1 John 2:6).

This means that if we are not following Jesus in the moral life that He lived and we are not denying ourselves, we will not be saved.
Remember, that which only dies will be raised (1 Corinthians 15:26).
So if you are not dead to yourself in your sinful passions, then you will not be raised (resurrected).

It must be 100% faith in Christ or it is nothing!

.

This is the Achilles heel of Protestantism. They don’t realize that EVERYTHING in their Bible is a part of the faith (Including God’s commands or instructions for us).

Romans 10:17 says faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God.


Side Note:

Note to our readers here (who may be just joining the conversation):

I am not Catholic or Orthodox, etcetera. I am a Non-denominational Christian who believes the “Bible Alone + the Anointing to Understand It” is our sole guide for all matters of faith and for living out the faith (i.e. In doing the work of faith in love).