Its nothing wrong with stating the truth about who Christ specifically died for, Christ stated it Himself Jn 10:11,15
The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
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I remember Rowland Hill’s reply, when somebody said that he ought to preach only to the elect. “Very well,” he said, “next Sunday morning, chalk them all on the back and when you have done that, I will preach to them.” But the chalking of them on the back is the difficulty—we cannot do that and, as we cannot do that, the best way is for us to leave our God to carry out the purposes of His distinguishing Grace in His own effectual way and not attempt to do what we certainly can never accomplish! There, scatter a handful of Seed “by the wayside.” Even if the birds of the air devour it, there is plenty more where that came from and it would be a pity for us to leave any portion unsown because we were miserly and stingy with our Master’s Seed! - Charles Spurgeon†
† Sermon# 2843, The Seed by the Wayside, Luke 8:5
From: ht_tps://doulogos.blogspot.com/2008/12/dan-phillips-had-been-trying-to-source.html
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Oh, preacher of the self willed autonomous power of man (2 Peter 2:9-10) to choose Jesus (John 15;16) precepts of men (Matthew 15:9), Enoch111, salvation is not Calvin's writing, nor Arminius' writing, no, truly salvation is the Word of God (Romans 1:16).
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Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
But what if they're NOT elect, and just "Firewood"?? Why would you LIE TO THEM and tell them that Jesus died for them, WHEN HE DIDN'T (assuming "Calvinist" theology).
Is there any scriptural example of preaching to the unsaved people in the scriptural verses and telling them Christ died for them?
None I know of.
Worth looking into IMO.
What is recorded are things like Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved
And Peter in Acts 2 never tells the unsaved Christ died for them.
Acts would be the only place to look as the other books were written to believers.
We only hear those kind of phrases in the apostles letters to the churches.
The Christ of us Christians says "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces" (Matthew 7:6), thus says the Word of God whom I follow.
Therefore, Lord Jesus says that telling a person that Jesus died for him or Jesus loves her before God saves such a one is disobeying Jesus with severe consequences!
I present a true account. While out evangelizing on a particular Saturday morning, God introduced me to a seminarian that completed his dissertation to graduate. We engaged in dialog for a couple of hours with some attention on his dissertation. We proceeded to talk about the error he committed against God in his dissertation. Suddenly, later in the discussion, the seminary student dropped his head in shame, and he saw his own sin that separated him from the One True Holy God! He confessed that he was not of Christ up to that moment. Oh the exuberance of that young man starting at that point! During about the next half hour, that young man was so very excited, in conversation and joy and he was under my feet - I mean literally - the street market was being converted back to a street for vehicles - and as I was breaking down the canopy, I tried to step backwards but I literally stumbled backwards over his feet. Throughout the time we continued talking, I remember him repeatedly saying "I've got to go back and change my dissertation".
I did not tell that young man that God died for him. God says to a person that Jesus died for the person by way of the Holy Spirit (John 16:7-15).
I cannot speak to Calvin nor Arminius for I do not follow them.
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whosoever implies more sense of a universalism free will idea, which still is not in the text. Whosoever to me means regardless of any nationality, race, culture, rich, poor. The gospel is open now to all nations, not just the Jews. That is a big difference from the OT period, and is something the jews were not really totally accepting of, you can see that attitude in Acts. the Jews considered all the other nations cursed by God, and only they the chosen people, which was true in a way before the New Covenant was established.
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Agreed, mostly, Renniks, the "pas" (every) is singular (not plural) resulting in John 3:16 meaning much more precisely "every one believing".
Unbelievers are not included in "every one believing", so this impacts the word "world" contextually in John 3:16 as this post's chain demonstrates, but to make things easier on you, here's a direct link back in the chain to post #2756 which specifically examines the passage.
Essentially, Lord Jesus sets the relation between differing populations of persons by way of Him including the "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14, Numbers 21:9), so the "population of bitten look to live" directly corresponds with the word "world" as per Jesus' usage (John 3:16).
Another approach exists for the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 to include ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.
The approach is based on the Word of God saying "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29); therefore, the "every one believing" in John 3:16 is completely and exclusively dependent on the "work of God" in man that is "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".
We know that Christ didn't die for all humanity when we consider His intentions , bottom line and goal for His Death in the Purpose of God. If He didn't accomplish these things, it was a failure, of which we know He was and is Victorious ! Now here are a few of these intentions derived from the sacred records: Eph 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.68
Now the word that is the signal word to denote His intention, its the conjunction hina:
that, in order that, so that,; in order that (denoting the purpose or the result):
So plainly the purpose and intended result of Christ loving and giving Himself [speaking of His Death] for His Church was so each person of it will be sanctified, and cleansed by the washing of the water by the word,
That each member will not have spot or wrinkle, to be holy and without blemish. What's intended for the whole is intended for each part or member of the whole ! All this is Salvation !
Now all who dont be found in this Church, He didn't die for, it would be a failure of His Intention and Purpose for His Death
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.68
Now the word that is the signal word to denote His intention, its the conjunction hina:
that, in order that, so that,; in order that (denoting the purpose or the result):
So plainly the purpose and intended result of Christ loving and giving Himself [speaking of His Death] for His Church was so each person of it will be sanctified, and cleansed by the washing of the water by the word,
That each member will not have spot or wrinkle, to be holy and without blemish. What's intended for the whole is intended for each part or member of the whole ! All this is Salvation !
Now all who dont be found in this Church, He didn't die for, it would be a failure of His Intention and Purpose for His Death
He saves all those who believe which is his intention. There's no need to buy into limited atonement.
If they not Gods elect then they will remain in unbelief. But when I preach I dont know who the elect are, but God does. Just because a preacher or a witness of Christ tells a sinner who Christ specifically died for, doesnt mean they know who the elect are, thats absurd.
Christ is the door to the Father’s righteousness. It is the Father that draws all men, through preaching of the gospel, it is His Holy Spirit that opens your heart you receive it. and the Father said that whosever will let him come.
Your writing of:
This explanation presents the linguistically accurate and spiritual Truth (John 14:6) about John 3:16.
The first word of John 3:16 is a conjunction that inextricably ties John 3:14-15 to John 3:16, and here are the Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:
Furthermore, there is a different population of persons which includes persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness".
Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16) with the first "population of bitten look to live" and there was the second "population of everyone else".
For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).
The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.
is false because a mere human takes the Word of God out of context in John 3:14-16 resulting in worship of God in vain because of the precepts of men (Matthew 15:9).
This explanation presents the linguistically accurate and spiritual Truth (John 14:6) about John 3:16.
The first word of John 3:16 is a conjunction that inextricably ties John 3:14-15 to John 3:16, and here are the Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:
"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).
Lord Jesus brings in history by way of mentioning "the serpent in the wilderness" (see John 3:14), so here is the passage:
Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (Numbers 21:8-9)
Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".
Furthermore, there is a different population of persons which includes persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness".
Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16) with the first "population of bitten look to live" and there was the second "population of everyone else".
For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).
- Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).
- Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every" (John 3:16, note that the Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).
- Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).
- Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).
The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.
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Uh yeah there were different populations based on what they did. We've all been bitten by sin. We all have the opportunity to look to Jesus or to reject him.
Nonetheless, the Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus - just as shown in the post to which you replied.
Your humanistic assertion that "We all have the opportunity to look to Jesus or to reject him" a.k.a. choosing Jesus is a blatant lie and denial of the Word of God.
The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!
It means everyone believing. The scripture tells us why some believe. That is what it seems you may not want to hear.
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