The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Fully comprehending the magnitude of his bloodshed? Yes. Not TOTALLY though. If you're gonna use big words, know what they mean
Definition of comprehend (Merriam-Webster)
: to grasp the nature, significance, or meaning of
Add to this the word FULLY.... and you have stated you absolutely understand the act of Christ's sacrifice. That is a huge claim to make...
Just saying... Sometimes our words do not match what we are trying to articulate.
I do not understand the propitiation of CHRIST... I am in AWE of God's Sovereignty... I don't have all the answers... maybe not even half the answers.
You are apparently expressing the Calvinist view of things...I believe God honours free will.... That seems to offend so many people... and I see it as the most LOVING response... not to mention WHAT A RISK... Instead of FORCING us to believe and accept the ATONEMENT of CHRIST... God is giving us a choice. The concept kind of thwarts the whole notion of predestination and the elect.
It seems that so many Christians seem to like the SAFETY of being chosen or not.... or on the other side... you have those who think they have to be good and do good.... NOT many are willing to simply REST and BELIEVE in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
Last edited:
His Suffering and Death the same thing !
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The tasting of death Vs 9 here refers to the many Sons in Vs 10, for suffering here in Vs 10 is equivalent to death in Vs 9, and since the suffering in Vs 10 brings the many Son's to Glory, then it seems meet that the pas/every or all in Vs 9 be the same group. For His Suffering and Death go hand and hand 1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered or died for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Notice here also the end of His Suffering and Death"that he might bring us to God"
The same as in Heb 2:10
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
its the same greek word in both passages for bring !
And besides later in the same Epistle to Hebrews, it again Identifies the Many [Sons] for whom He tasted death or bare their sins Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Which agree's with scripture here Isa 53:12
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
The tasting of death Vs 9 here refers to the many Sons in Vs 10, for suffering here in Vs 10 is equivalent to death in Vs 9, and since the suffering in Vs 10 brings the many Son's to Glory, then it seems meet that the pas/every or all in Vs 9 be the same group. For His Suffering and Death go hand and hand 1 Pet 3:18
18 For Christ also hath once suffered or died for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Notice here also the end of His Suffering and Death"that he might bring us to God"
The same as in Heb 2:10
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
its the same greek word in both passages for bring !
And besides later in the same Epistle to Hebrews, it again Identifies the Many [Sons] for whom He tasted death or bare their sins Heb 9:28
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Which agree's with scripture here Isa 53:12
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Then how do you reconcile verses such as John 3:16
That then begs the question, Who were these people Christ didn't die for? Be specific.
You still continuing in most degrading thoughts of the Almighty God, whose Will reigns supreme Dan 4:35
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Here’s what scriptures say love is.
1 Cor.13:4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
Tong
R4133
This was my post that you replied with that.
“
Tong2020 said: ↑
I don’t agree that it’s about God respecting man’s choice. I find that simply as a cheap excuse or argument to explain away God’s sovereignty over His creation, even His wisdom and power. For such argument dictates that one’s salvation depends on the man, if not entirely by his will, more than God’s. And this simply runs contrary to the truth that one’s salvation is of God, by God, and by grace, and is according to the counsel of His will.”
Perhaps you would like to retry to refute (properly) what I said there.
Tong
R4134
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
My language is straight forward; how is it you don’t understand it?
‘You search the scriptures thinking that in them you have eternal life, yet they are they which testify of me yet you won’t come to me to have life’....Jesus
Last edited:
Apparently you don’t want to try. Evidently, you just want to post just anything that comes to your mind. I’ll let you be with that then.
Tong
R4135
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Ahh, yes. The old trap question from the philosophy course: "If God is omnipotent, can He create a stone so heavy that even He can't lift it?"
So, what happens if a sovereign God sovereignly desires something that logically necessitates that He sovereignly limit His own actions under terms and conditions that He sovereignly defines and sovereignly imposes on Himself?
If God's desire is that His creatures freely love Him, that falls into that category. And the funny thing is, in my humanness, I can kinda see how a sovereign God that can create anything He wants might desire something that He's not guaranteed of getting.
I'm not playing games. I do not understand in totality COMPLETELY Christ's blood sacrifice; however I am I have been made fully aware of (it has most certainly been hammered home in my heart) the magnitude of Christ's sacrifice. Which is why I refuse to believe The Father drew even one drop of useless and needless blood from His beloved Son.
Hello! Excellent questions! I
For God so loved the WORLD (Greek Cosmos. His creation. We are told that all of creation groans, waiting to be delivered from the burden of sin. The father will not allow his once perfect creation remain fallen. He will fix what has been broken.) that he gave his one and only son, that whosoever believes in him...(Greek 'all the believing'. Those who will believe, a number which The father and son know.)
Those who will be saved are those who are a part of the covenant of God, set apart by Him from the foundation of the world; a LARGE LARGE multitude from every race, culture, and background. A number too great for us to count.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
But hey, you're the one who brought up the subject about how can the Sovereign God of the Bible desire the salvation of every individual without exception and yet sovereignly defer that particular desire of His to human desires. (Or more accurately, account for His creatures' desires within His own decision-making matrix, which is one of the things Love does.) God's desires may have a few layers of complexity to them, you think?
Last edited:
Similar threads
