The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[GEN2REV]

19. Christ reigns in heaven over his enemies?

The problem with such a theory is that Matthew 22:44 presents Christ remaining in heaven at the right side of his Father until it's time to reign over his enemies (they being made into a symbolic footstool). That is when he returns at the 7th trump and reigns over his enemies with a rod of iron upon the Earth. A heavenly reign over his Earthly enemies is not scriptural and is obvious to anyone to not currently be happening since the world is in chaos and sin and rebellion. That will not happen when Christ is actually ruling over everyone on this planet.

Matthew 22:44 is referencing a prophecy from David's time. David spoke it and it is in Psalms 110:1 speaking of a time to come far into the future from David's time.

It proves nothing about Christ being "stuck in heaven" right now at the right hand of the Father.

In John 14:21-23, Jesus clearly states that He AND the Father come to live inside anybody that obeys the Father's Commandments. That is - living inside the followers of Christ ... upon the earth .... right now .... today.

Psalms 110:1 even references 1 Corinthians 15:24-25 when the Father brings His Wrath upon the earth to punish all wickedness. If Christ is ever sitting at the right hand of the Father while the Father deals with Christ's enemies, it is most certainly at that time.

 

[Earburner]

So Amillennialism changes the concept of a pit to the entire world and we are all in it. That doctrine gets weirder and weirder, and further and further from scripture. This nonsense just made it into my list.

After Christ returns in all His fiery Glory, Premillennialists want to believe against Christ's own words in the Gospels, that this earth still has a future with unsaved people, who have escaped His wrath. If that be so, then the only ones who that could be, are those who received the "mark of the beast", who shall never have forgiveness.
There will be no second chances.

This is the Lord's truth, through the analogy of Lot:
Luke 17[28] Likewise [as with Noah's day] also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

It's a simultaneous event.

 

[GEN2REV]

This is the Lord's truth, through the analogy of Lot:
Luke 17[28] Likewise [as with Noah's day] also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
[29] But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

It's a simultaneous event.

And here is the conclusion of the matter.

If Christ draws the righteous up to meet Him in the air when He comes, while simultaneously the brightness of His coming destroys all the wicked upon the earth that are left, ...... um, ... who is left to live on the earth for the pretend 1,000 years thereafter??

More importantly: What will they live upon after Isaiah 13:9-11 and 2 Peter 3:10??

 

[ewq1938]

After Christ returns in all His fiery Glory, Premillennialists want to believe against Christ's own words in the Gospels, that this earth still has a future with unsaved people, who have escaped His wrath.

They didn't escape the wrath, but many are not targeted for death. Revelation 19 promises a future rule over the nations because it used rule in the future tense. Not one Amillennial has even tried to touch that. They just ignore it and change the subject but it's one of many death nails that has put the doctrine where it belongs.

 

[ewq1938]

the brightness of His coming destroys all the wicked upon the earth that are left

That is Amillennial fiction. There is no scriptural support for that but there is to prove a rule over the nations past Armageddon. See my previous post.

 

[Marty fox]

They didn't escape the wrath, but many are not targeted for death. Revelation 19 promises a future rule over the nations because it used rule in the future tense. Not one Amillennial has even tried to touch that. They just ignore it and change the subject but it's one of many death nails that has put the doctrine where it belongs.

Revelation 19:17-21
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

If this is a one time event how could there be a future rule after verses 18 & 21?

The rest of the people are killed by Jesus sword and the flesh of all people free and slave great and small are eaten by the birds.

Everyone is dead.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 19:17-21
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

If this is a one time event how could there be a future rule after verses 18 & 21?

The rest of the people are killed by Jesus sword and the flesh of all people free and slave great and small are eaten by the birds.

That's addressing the army that is there. Everyone in the army is killed, from great to small, all of them. It's not a global slaughter. Now can you answer why Revelation 19:15's use of "rule" is in the future tense? If the ruling was happening at Armageddon it would be in the present tense. A rule in the future tense means there is a future rule. That's just basic grammar.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[Marty fox]

That's addressing the army that is there. Everyone in the army is killed, from great to small, all of them. It's not a global slaughter. Now can you answer why Revelation 19:15's use of "rule" is in the future tense? If the ruling was happening at Armageddon it would be in the present tense. A rule in the future tense means there is a future rule. That's just basic grammar.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

No that’s not what the text says it says it says “18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

All people free and slave great and small. It mentions the people in the army (kings,generals,the mighty and the horses their riders) and then all people.

The answer is because this isn’t a one time event it’s not even Armageddon as Armageddon is in revelation chapter 16 the defeat of Babylon the great this is a different battle. That being said this isn’t a one time event revelation 2:16 proves it it proves that the judgement of the sword of Jesus mouth (His word) happens at different times.

16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

The battle of revelation 19 is the defeat of all of Jesus enemies over all time. Jesus rules in our past the present and the future and judges and defeats all of His enemies like He has for the last 2000 years. That’s why people like hitler were finally defeated.

 

[Earburner]

They didn't escape the wrath, but many are not targeted for death. Revelation 19 promises a future rule over the nations because it used rule in the future tense. Not one Amillennial has even tried to touch that. They just ignore it and change the subject but it's one of many death nails that has put the doctrine where it belongs.

Revelation 19 is the simultaneous details of Luke 17:28.

I don't think that Premils understand how an "iron rod" makes "shivers" (Revelation 2:27), or what the purpose of a "threshingfloor" is (Daniel 2:35).

Immediately after our resurrection into the likeness of Christ's immortality, the Battle of Armageddon (aka Gog and Magog) takes place against Christ and all the resurrected saints, in all of the KoG.
Rev. 19[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

In Dan. 2:35, the latter sentence is descriptive of two time periods, but NOT in the order that Premils want to view it.
The two time periods are in this order:
1. The time of God's Grace NOW through Jesus.
2. The time of Christ's Glorious return.
Dan.2[35] Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them:
and the stone that smote the image became [had become] a great mountain [kingdom], and filled* the whole earth.

* Notes:
The parable of the Mustard seed. Matthew 13:31-33.

Matthew 24[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and THEN [after that] shall the end come.
Luke 24 [47] And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Edit: in the parable of the Mustard seed, I corrected the typo in the biblical reference.

 

[ewq1938]

No that’s not what the text says it says it says “18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

All people free and slave great and small. It mentions the people in the army (kings,generals,the mighty and the horses their riders) and then all people.

All people there not globally.

The answer is because this isn’t a one time event it’s not even Armageddon as Armageddon is in revelation chapter 16 the defeat of Babylon the great this is a different battle.

It's the same battle. They arrive at Armageddon early in Revelation 16, but the battle doesn't happen until Jesus arrives in Revelation 19.

The battle of revelation 19 is the defeat of all of Jesus enemies over all time.

Nope. It's the battle of Armageddon which happens in a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem and the armies there are owned by the beast.

 

[ewq1938]

Immediately after our resurrection into the likeness of Christ's immortality, the Battle of Armageddon (aka Gog and Magog)

You are confusing two different battles that take place at two dif times and places.

Revelation 19 is Armageddon, where Christ destroys the armies of the beast using a symbolic sword and the beast himself.

Revelation 20, after satan is released is when he goes to God and Magog and brings them not to Armageddon (66 miles from Jerusalem) but to Jerusalem itself. They die there in fire from God the Father. Christ is not involved.

You literally get everything wrong about these two battles. You aren't alone. Most Amills make the same exact mistakes. You guys really need MORE bible studying! This just demonstrates the fundamental lack of basic biblical comprehension.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 19:17-21
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf.With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

If this is a one time event how could there be a future rule after verses 18 & 21?

The rest of the people are killed by Jesus sword and the flesh of all people free and slave great and small are eaten by the birds.

Everyone is dead.

There was a resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

 

[Earburner]

You are confusing two different battles that take place at two dif times and places.

Revelation 19 is Armageddon, where Christ destroys the armies of the beast using a symbolic sword and the beast himself.

Revelation 20, after satan is released is when he goes to God and Magog and brings them not to Armageddon (66 miles from Jerusalem) but to Jerusalem itself. They die there in fire from God the Father. Christ is not involved.

You literally get everything wrong about these two battles. You aren't alone. Most Amills make the same exact mistakes. You guys really need MORE bible studying! This just demonstrates the fundamental lack of basic biblical comprehension.

And THAT IS the problem. We are not to interpret the words of God the Father through Christ literally. Zechariah 4:6.
As the Gospels often speak of the same parables, miracles and events, they are reiterated from different perspectives. So also should the book of Revelation be read and interpreted in like manner.
Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13, 1 Corinthians 2:3-16.

Armageddon is the event of Gog and Magog.

 

[Marty fox]

They didn't escape the wrath, but many are not targeted for death. Revelation 19 promises a future rule over the nations because it used rule in the future tense. Not one Amillennial has even tried to touch that. They just ignore it and change the subject but it's one of many death nails that has put the doctrine where it belongs.

All people there not globally.





It's the same battle. They arrive at Armageddon early in Revelation 16, but the battle doesn't happen until Jesus arrives in Revelation 19.






Nope. It's the battle of Armageddon which happens in a valley 66 miles from Jerusalem and the armies there are owned by the beast.[/QUOTE]

Common it’s says “ all people” and separates them from the army. You are doing exactly what you accuse amils of doing.

If rev 19 is the same battle as 16 then how come Babylon the great is destroyed in rev 16 and not mentioned in rev 19? And rev 17:16 shows us who defeats Babylon the great and it’s not Jesus.

Also the term Armageddon is only used in rev 16 it’s not mentioned in rev 19

 

[Marty fox]

There was a resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

I'm talking about the unsaved

 

[Earburner]

There was a resurrection:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

You should be able to agree that in all of the history of the Church Age, there were numerous martyrs, and not just in the end time church. Therefore, God is not going to honor any martyr above another.

and I saw the souls of them that
1. were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
2. and [were beheaded] for the word of God,
3. and [were beheaded] which had not worshipped the beast,

1. The Early church.
2. The Reformation church.
3. The End time church.

And most assuredly, all did reign with Christ during their life time, in the present Age of God's Grace through Jesus.
1 Peter 2[9] But ye are*
a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

*Note: in the present tense.

 

[GEN2REV]

Revelation 19 promises a future rule over the nations because it used rule in the future tense.

Nothing from Revelation has ever proved anything.

"Will rule" is nothing more than an ongoing confirmation of God's kingdom from the time John saw these things in his visions, while in the Spirit on the Sabbath Day on the island of Patmos, until the return of Christ when He turns the kingdom over to the Father and all sinners and wickedness are destroyed; The End.

Not one Amillennial has even tried to touch that.

Are you omniscient/omnipresent?

 

[GEN2REV]

That is Amillennial fiction. There is no scriptural support for that but there is to prove a rule over the nations past Armageddon. See my previous post.

He shall "destroy" all antichrist wickedness "with the brightness of His coming"
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And everyone that is not taken up to meet the Lord in the air, and everything else, is destroyed at the same time by the same catalyst.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
2 Peter 3:10

 

[ewq1938]

And THAT IS the problem. We are not to interpret the words of God the Father through Christ literally. Zechariah 4:6.
As the Gospels often speak of the same parables, miracles and events, they are reiterated from different perspectives. So also should the book of Revelation be read and interpreted in like manner.
Isaiah 55:8-9, John 16:13, 1 Corinthians 2:3-16.

Armageddon is the event of Gog and Magog.

No it's not. I have already proven that.

Revelation 19 is Armageddon, where Christ destroys the armies of the beast using a symbolic sword and the beast himself.

Revelation 20, after satan is released is when he goes to God and Magog and brings them not to Armageddon (66 miles from Jerusalem) but to Jerusalem itself. They die there in fire from God the Father. Christ is not involved.

 

[Marty fox]

You should be able to agree that in all of the history of the Church Age, there were numerous martyrs, and not just in the end time church.
[email protected]

and I saw the souls of them that
1. were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,
2. and [were beheaded] for the word of God,
3. and [were beheaded] which had not worshipped the beast,

1. The Early church.
2. The Reformation church.
3. The End time church.

And most assuredly, all did reign with Christ during their life time, in the present Age of God's Grace through Jesus.
1 Peter 2[9] But ye are*
a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

*Note: in the present tense.

Well said "Therefore, God is not going to honor any martyr above another.". How true they wouldn't be more honored than those burned to death or fed to lions