The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Zao is life]

Wow. You are just dishonest to the core. I showed you that the verse refers to God the Father, who is a Spirit without a body, as living (zao) and you didn't even address that! Did you think I wouldn't notice that? How can the word be applied to the living (zao) God the Father, who has no body, but not to the soul of a believer who has no body?

I answered you in bold in post #1,858. But you continue to show that your mind is so befuddled by your false doctrine that you are STILL unable to discern the difference between eternal life [zoe] and living | being alive [zao] which in the case of human beings is always referring to those who are alive in their bodies.

You have a haughty spirit then you accuse the one you;re talking to of having a haughty spirit.

You have NO respect for your subject (the scriptures).

You are so dishonest that you won't even address the points I made, showing God the Father, who is a Spirit and has no body, as "zao" and the souls of those who belong to God like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as "zao". Why are you so afraid to admit you were wrong? That's much better than remaining prideful while denying the truth that has been presented to you.

I addressed them in bold in Post # 1,858. Stop lying.

Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

That's a Proverb you of all people need to take to heart.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Like I said, you are so determined to keep conflating zoe and zao in order to have scripture submit to your false doctrine that you are unable to discern.

Why are you AFRAID to address the FACT that the word "zao" is used in scripture to refer to those without bodies such as God the Father, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all who are dead and belong to the God of the living? You are trying to hide that by talking about a different word, but I have shown that the word "zao" can refer to the souls of physically/bodily dead believers and you foolishly don't want to acknowledge it because of your stubborn pride.

You have already exposed yourself and continue to expose yourself as being dishonest, aside from frequently being VERY disrespectful to scripture by being dishonest in your approach AND sneaky by then accusing the person you're arguing with of being dishonest.

You really expose yourself well when you start. I'm enjoying this.

You are enjoying exposing how AFRAID you are to address my points? I highly doubt that. Just another lie from you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I answered you in bold in post #1,858. But you continue to show that your mind is so befuddled by your false doctrine that you are STILL unable to discern the difference between eternal life [zoe] and living | being alive [zao] which in the case of human beings is always referring to those who are alive in their bodies.

You have a haughty spirit then you accuse the one you;re talking to of having a haughty spirit.

You have NO respect for your subject (the scriptures).

I addressed them in bold in Post # 1,858. Stop lying.

That's a Proverb you of all people need to take to heart.

I'm not the one denying truth being presented to me like you are.

John 6:57 As the living (zao) Father hath sent me, and I live (zao) by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live (zao) by me.

God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24) and the word "zao" is used here to refer to Him, proving the word can be used to refer to spiritual life. Can you please address this instead of trying to change the subject to being about a different word? I'm showing you that you were wrong to say that scripture never uses the word "zao" to refer to anything but bodily life.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (zao): ye therefore do greatly err.

Here, Jesus is showing the Sadducees that people do not cease to exist when they physically/bodily die as they believed because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao). That means if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not alive right now, then God would not be their God. But, since their souls are living (zao), then that proves He is still their God even though they are physically dead. Please address this instead of constantly trying to distract from what I'm saying by trying to make things personal.

 

[Zao is life]

Why are you AFRAID to address the FACT that the word "zao" is used in scripture to refer to those without bodies such as God the Father, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and all who are dead and belong to the God of the living? You are trying to hide that by talking about a different word, but I have shown that the word "zao" can refer to the souls of physically/bodily dead believers and you foolishly don't want to acknowledge it because of your stubborn pride.


You are enjoying exposing how AFRAID you are to address my points? I highly doubt that. Just another lie from you.

LIAR. Both in the page I referenced and MORE THAN ONCE MORE THAN TWICE I have said that zao is either referring to the LIVING God (the God who is alive [zao] but whenever it's talking about human beings it's referring to them as being alive [zao] in their bodies.

The living [zao] God has life [zoe] in Himself. He created human beings to be alive [zao] on the created earth, each in their own created body.

You're a joke. A false teacher, a false accuser, a reviler, and you have VERY LITTLE discernment when it comes to scripture because you keep trying to get scripture to submit to a false doctrine you believe in, called Amillennialism.

Keep lying and saying I never answered the scripture you quoted. You just keep exposing yourself in the process.

You can go now. Because talking to you is a waste of time.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm not the one denying truth being presented to me like you are.

LIAR. I answered you. How can you lie like this and still think no one will notice?

You OBVIOUSLY never read my post after I edited it and completed it and copied you with @Spiritual Israelite so you could see the full answer.

Goodbye liar. You should pick a different subject to the Bible to expose yourself like this with.

You have proved that you have very little discernment to be able to understand scripture - and the words zao and zoe are one example among many. And your consistent lying makes it really sad that you pick the Bible and the things of God and of Christ to continue like this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LIAR. Both in the page I referenced and MORE THAN ONCE MORE THAN TWICE I have said that zao is either referring to the LIVING God (the God who is alive [zao] but whenever it's talking about human beings it's referring to them as being alive [zao] in their bodies.

I don't recall you saying that, so I missed it. That doesn't make me a liar. You miss things that I say, too. It happens because we both say a lot.

How can it refer to God the Father, who has no body, but not to the soul of a believer who has no body? Also, why are you not addressing what I said about Mark 12:27? Can you calm yourself down for a minute and address it?

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (zao): ye therefore do greatly err.

Here, Jesus is showing the Sadducees that people do not cease to exist when they physically/bodily die as they believed because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao). That means if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not alive right now, then God would not be their God. But, since their souls are living (zao), then that proves He is still their God even though they are physically dead. Please address this instead of constantly trying to distract from what I'm saying by trying to make things personal.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LIAR. I answered you. How can you lie like this and still think no one will notice?

You have not addressed what I said about Mark 12:27. Did you think I wouldn't notice that? Calm down, grow up and address what I said there. After you do, I don't care if you ever talk to me again. But, show that you're an adult and at least address that point.

 

[Zao is life]

I don't recall you saying that, so I missed it. That doesn't make me a liar. You miss things that I say, too. It happens because we both say a lot.

You DELIBERATELY falsely accuse people - not only me - it's a habitual thing with you.

If you did not read the page in the link I gave then OBVIOUSLY you did not see that IN THAT PAGE it's mentioned - but I have also said it here in posts MORE THAN TWICE. I don't know which posts.

The problem with you (you do this often with a few people) is that what you say above is NOT the reason you accused me of not answering you or not talking about it. The reason you accused me is because it's your TACTIC. You're really not interested in what zoe means in scripture, or what word scripture uses every time a verse speaks about the eternal life [ZOE] that only God has in Himself and only Christ has in Himself because He is God, that is GIVEN to us IN CHRIST, nor are you truly interested in what word scripture uses or if it EVER uses aionos zao (as opposed to aionos zoe) in reference to eternal life.

Nor are you actually interested in discerning when the word zao is referring to the living God, and when it's referring to human beings who are living alive in the body (bodily life) and whether zao is EVER referring to the spiritual life of God when used in reference to the eternal life (aionos ZOE) that is given to us.

IMO you should NOT be debating these things until you develop enough respect for the word of God not to go around being a smart-you-know-what so much.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You DELIBERATELY falsely accuse people - not only me - it's a habitual thing with you.

If you did not read the page in the link I gave then OBVIOUSLY you did not see that IN THAT PAGE it's mentioned - but I have also said it here in posts MORE THAN TWICE. I don't know which posts.

I don't read everything you say. I am not lying about not seeing that before. Or, if I did, I didn't recall that. But, I'm glad we agree that the word can be used to refer to God the Father despite Him not having a body. Why you think it can refer to Him despite not having a body, but not to a dead believer's soul makes no sense to me.

Please stop trying to deflect attention away from the fact that you haven't addressed what I said about the use of the word "zao" in Mark 12:27. Please just address what I said about that verse and then we can be done talking to each other forever for all I care.

 

[WPM]

Your lies become you. YOUR dishonesty is showing really, really well in your last few posts

The souls John spoke about had eternal life [zoe] because Christ who is eternal life [zoe] is with them and in them.

But they are not bodily alive [zao]. They are what the New Testament calls DEAD. D- E - A -D.

Tell the apostles who used that word and words describing DEATH in respect of all those who are no longer living | alive [zao] in their bodies that their dishonesty shows.

You are a false teacher - not the apostles who used ZOE in respect of spiritual life which is in Christ and is given to us, and ZAO in respect of bodily life which until the resurrection of the body from the dead, ENDS IN DEATH.

If you keep arguing against the language those who wrote the scriptures chose to use in reference to the above two types of life, then the subject is CLOSED between me and you.

The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

This makes no sense whatsoever. You say it says "they came to life", but then look at what you reference there. Strong's Greek 2198, which is the word "zao" and you even show there that it means "to live, be alive". What gives here? To live and be alive does not require someone to be bodily...

www.christianityboard.com

The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

This makes no sense whatsoever. You say it says "they came to life", but then look at what you reference there. Strong's Greek 2198, which is the word "zao" and you even show there that it means "to live, be alive". What gives here? To live and be alive does not require someone to be bodily...

www.christianityboard.com

Lol

 

[WPM]

You DELIBERATELY falsely accuse people - not only me - it's a habitual thing with you.

If you did not read the page in the link I gave then OBVIOUSLY you did not see that IN THAT PAGE it's mentioned - but I have also said it here in posts MORE THAN TWICE. I don't know which posts.

The problem with you (you do this often with a few people) is that what you say above is NOT the reason you accused me of not answering you or not talking about it. The reason you accused me is because it's your TACTIC. You're really not interested in what zoe means in scripture, or what word scripture uses every time a verse speaks about the eternal life [ZOE] that only God has in Himself and only Christ has in Himself because He is God, that is GIVEN to us IN CHRIST, nor are you truly interested in what word scripture uses or if it EVER uses aionos zao (as opposed to aionos zoe) in reference to eternal life.

Nor are you actually interested in discerning when the word zao is referring to the living God, and when it's referring to human beings who are living alive in the body (bodily life) and whether zao is EVER referring to the spiritual life of God when used in reference to the eternal life (aionos ZOE) that is given to us.

IMO you should NOT be debating these things until you develop enough respect for the word of God not to go around being a smart-you-know-what so much.

More lies. You are describing yourself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't recall you saying that, so I missed it. That doesn't make me a liar. You miss things that I say, too. It happens because we both say a lot.

How can it refer to God the Father, who has no body, but not to the soul of a believer who has no body? Also, why are you not addressing what I said about Mark 12:27? Can you calm yourself down for a minute and address it?

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (zao): ye therefore do greatly err.

Here, Jesus is showing the Sadducees that people do not cease to exist when they physically/bodily die as they believed because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao). That means if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not alive right now, then God would not be their God. But, since their souls are living (zao), then that proves He is still their God even though they are physically dead. Please address this instead of constantly trying to distract from what I'm saying by trying to make things personal.

I only hear the sound of crickets in response to this post. When challenged, he backs down and runs away every time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

More lies. You are describing yourself.

Agree. He said the word "zao" is never used in scripture to apply to the souls of dead human beings, I showed him otherwise by referencing Mark 12:26-27 where Jesus referred to God as being the God of the living, including physically dead believers like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and he has the gall to call me a liar despite exposing his lie. Instead of acknowledging that I proved him wrong, he calls me a liar, which makes him the liar. It's incredible how unteachable and dishonest some of these Premills are.

 

[Zao is life]

The New Testament talks about God as being alive [zao], as being life [zoe], and has having life [zoe] in Himself.

Note: The life [zoe] of God is eternal life.

(Greek word) zoe: Life | eternal life.
(Greek word) zao: To live | to be alive (not lifeless | not dead).

The God who is alive [zao], who has life [zoe] in Himself, created human beings to live | to be alive [zao] on the created earth in created bodies.

ZOE:​

In Him (the Word of God) is life [zōḗ], and the life [zōḗ] is the light of men. -- John 1:4.

They named Him Jesus. Jesus said,

"For as the Father has life [zōḗ] in himself; so has he given to the Son (of God) to have life [zōḗ] in himself." -- John 5:26; and,

"I am the way, the truth, and the life [zoe]: no man comes unto the Father, but by me."
-- John 14:6.

John wrote, "God has given to us eternal life [zoe], and this (eternal) life [zōḗ] is in His Son; and,

and,

He that has the Son has this (eternal) life [zoe]; and he that has not the Son of God has not this (eternal) life [zōḗ]." -- 1 John 5:11-12.

CHRIST HAS ZOE IN HIMSELF.
CREATED HUMANS DO NOT. THE ZOE GIVEN TO US IS IN CHRIST.

Eternal life [zoe] is only given to created human beings through what the apostle Paul calls "the mystery which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints", which is "Christ in you, the hope of glory."

It follows that if someone does not have the Spirit of Christ coming to abide in him, he does not have eternal life; and without being born of the Spirit of God (just as we were born of the flesh), created human beings simply have no eternal life [zoe] in them. Jesus said,

"I am in my Father, and ye (will be) in me, and I in you." -- John 14:19b-20b.

The full list of verses using the word zoe is HERE

ZAO:​

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines zaō firstly as meaning to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead).

In the New Testament, eternal life in the Greek is always referred to as aionios zoe, never as aionios zao.

Throughout the New Testament, whenever the verses containing the word zao are referring to God, they are referring to the living [zao] God | the God who is alive [zao], who has eternal life [zoe] in Himself,

but whenever the verses containing the word zao are referring to created humans who are alive | living [zao], they are referring to humans who are alive in their human bodies (not dead | not lifeless), regardless of whether or not they have eternal life [zoe], for example,

"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth [zao]? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth [zao]; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband." (Romans 7:1-2).

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao: lived again in a body that is not dead], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive in a body that is not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

I Thessalonians 4:15 & 17:
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [zao] and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Then we which are alive [zao] and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The full list is HERE , but below are some examples referring to the living [zao] God:

THE LIVING [zao] GOD,
THE LIVING [zao] WORD,
THE LIVING [záō] CHRIST,
AND LIVING [zao] WATER​

1. THE LIVING WORD

Hebrews 4:12:
For the word of God is alive [zao], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I Peter 1:23:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth [zao] and abideth for ever.

2. CHRIST ALIVE IN THE BODY

Revelation 1:18:
I am he that liveth [zao], and was dead; and, behold, I am alive [zao] for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
(Referring to Christ's bodily death, bodily resurrection, and the fact that He is alive in His body [zao] to the ages of the ages.)

Revelation 2:8:
And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive [zao].

Acts 1:3:
To whom also he shewed himself alive [zao] after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

Acts 25:19:
But had certain questions against him of their own superstition, and of one Jesus, which was dead, whom Paul affirmed to be alive [zao].
(Referring to Christ being alive again in the body).

The full list is on the same page given above.

3. THE GOD WHO IS ALIVE |THE LIVING GOD, AND THE LIVING CHRIST

I Peter 2:4:
To whom coming, as unto a living [zao] stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious.
(Christ, the God who is alive | the living God [zao] and is alive in the body [zao] forevermore).

Revelation 4:9:
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth [zao] for ever and ever.
(The God who is alive | the living God, and Christ, the God who is alive | the living God [zao] and is alive in the body [zao] forevermore).

The full list is on the same page given above.

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived [zao] and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Throughout the New Testament, whenever the verses containing the word zao are referring to God, they are referring to the living [zao] God | the God who is alive [zao], who has eternal life [zoe] in Himself,

but WHENEVER the verses containing the word zao are referring to created humans who are alive | living [zao], they are referring to humans who are alive in their human bodies (not dead | not lifeless), regardless of whether or not they have eternal life [zoe].

The remnant of the saints - those of us who believe in the Word of God and place the authority of scripture above the doctrines and theologies of fallible human beings, allow the New Testament to speak for itself.

The rest deny the facts and change the meaning of scripture whenever and wherever they need to (make their futile attempts to) get scripture to comply with their man-made doctrines and theologies.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again [anazao] until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection of the body [anastasis].
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection [anastasis]: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Zao is life]

I believe I made that clear. He believes in soul sleep and that dead people are completely dead, so he doesn't even allow for the possibilty that the word "zao", which means "to live, to be alive" could be used in reference to the souls of physically/bodily dead people. So, I'm showing that the souls of bodily dead people are alive, which means there's no reason why that word can't be used to refer to them.

@Davidpt I don't believe in soul sleep, and I've made that clear to him, but the fact that he keeps telling that lie exposes him yet again. He's not interested in facts.

Obviously since God created human beings with a body, soul and spirit means that when the body dies the soul remains without limbs until the resurrection of the body - no matter where the soul goes.

I did not say that means that the soul whose body has become dismembered from death "has no conscious awareness of itself and its surroundings".

Paul calls it sleeping in death. This liar @Spiritual Israelite would have (most certainly would have) falsely accused Paul of teaching "soul sleep" - because he has proved over and over and over again that he is a dishonest liar and WILL misrepresent what people say ..

.. I just realized why probably most of those who misrepresent what scripture says regardless of the facts, even when the facts have been pointed out to them (like these Amils here), do so. (SOME may misrepresent what scripture says for a while out of ignorance, but those who are honest will stop the misrepresentation from the moment they learn the facts).

When used in reference to created human beings, zao is never used in reference to those whose bodies are no longer alive - and sometimes it's used in reference to human beings who are alive in the body regardless of whether or not they have eternal life [zoe].

Zao simply means to live | to be alive (not lifeless | not dead). That's why when used in reference to God the Father zao is always talking about the God who is alive | the living God;

and when used in reference to Christ the Son of God - the human being - it's mostly referring to Him as alive in the body:

"I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth [zao], and was dead; and, behold, I am alive [zao] to the Ages [aeons] of the ages [aeons], Amen; and have the keys of hades and of death." (Revelation 1:18)

Jesus is not referring to the fact that He possesses and always has possessed eternal life [zoe] in Himself in the above verse.

But Amils will never get it because they will continue to conflate zao with zoe - because the false doctrine of Amillennialism requires the two to be conflated.

This post is addressed to @Davidpt to let you know that @Spiritual Israelite has misrepresented what I say about the souls of the dead YET AGAIN, knowingly and consciously, and deliberately.

@WPM has also deliberately lied about what I have said regarding the word zao and what I have said about what it refers to and does not refer to in respect of created human beings and what it refers to in respect of the living [zao] God.

Yet these are the people who expect others to respect their opinions. We can only shake our heads in disbelief at them. They lie, they get caught out with their lies, then they lie about their lies and accuse those they lie about of lying. (And they think in their puffed up pride they can tell others what scripture is saying about these things discussed in this thread, when they don't even believe what scripture is saying when it disagrees with the lies they have chosen to cling to).

 

[rwb]

As to souls in general, what point are you trying to make here to begin with? When ppl physically die the first death, including both the saved and lost, their soul doesn't die as well, right? Obviously then, even upon death of the physical body the soul remains alive, regardless. Even the souls of the lost. Therefore, your argument is absurd in regards to the souls seen per the 5th seal. Those souls are going to be alive, regardless. They are alive while still in a physical body prior to death, and they continue to remain alive upon death of the body. Except now the soul has to find another place to dwell, whether that is meaning in heaven or hell, until it is reunited with a physical body again. I'm not telling you anything you don't already clearly know. I'm just illustrating why your argument is absurd to begin with.

Every living breathing creature upon the earth is a 'soul' as long as they possess the breath of life (spirit). They only become physically dead when the breath of life, that is spirit leaves mortal flesh. Once the breath of life (spirit) departs from the body of every human there is no longer physical life in that human. The spirit that gives all of mankind's mortal flesh (breath of life) returns to God who gave it. Without the life-giving presence of the Holy Spirit within man, man's breath of life (spirit) being in darkness and unbelief at physical death is no longer a 'living soul' because eternal life comes from the Spirit of God in us, and without the Spirit giving us breath of life (spirit) man cannot be called a living soul. That's why it is only the man that dies in faith of Christ, having the Spirit of Christ spiritually within ascends to heaven after physical death a 'living soul'. The opening of the fifth seal proves this truth, if you will accept it.

 

[rwb]

This obviously tells us that someone already lived again bodily, and that the only ones remaining that still need to live bodily again are the rest of the dead that didn't already bodily live again at the beginning of the thousand years. But because of doctrinal bias' Amils are adding to the text something not even remotely found in the text, that verse 5 is also including those who have part in the first resurrection, that they don't live bodily again either until the thousand years are finished.

No man with the exception of Christ shall be bodily resurrected FOREVER before the last day when the last trumpet sounds that time given this earth whereby man MUST be saved shall be no longer! Any human bodily resurrected from the dead before the end is destined to physically die again! Because only those humans resurrected immortal and caught up to be with the Lord at the end of this age shall be physically alive forever. Amils understand what it means to possess ETERNAL/EVERLASTING life in Christ, which is why we don't add contradictions and confusion to the Word of God. As you have done here by arguing two bodily resurrections separated by ONE thousand years of time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

@Davidpt I don't believe in soul sleep, and I've made that clear to him, but the fact that he keeps telling that lie exposes him yet again. He's not interested in facts.

Obviously since God created human beings with a body, soul and spirit means that when the body dies the soul remains without limbs until the resurrection of the body - no matter where the soul goes.

I did not say that means that the soul whose body has become dismembered from death "has no conscious awareness of itself and its surroundings".

Paul calls it sleeping in death. This liar @Spiritual Israelite would have (most certainly would have) falsely accused Paul of teaching "soul sleep" - because he has proved over and over and over again that he is a dishonest liar and WILL misrepresent what people say ..

You have said things similar to what those who believe in soul sleep say, so it came across that you believed in that. I'm not lying to say you believed in it because you definitely come across that way in some of the things you say. I can see now that you don't believe it, so I was just mistaken and not lying at all. To lie means you are not telling the truth on purpose. I was not doing that. When you say that a word that refers to someone living or being alive can't refer to someone's soul that is living and alive, that strongly comes across as believing in soul sleep. Don't blame me that you inexplicably don't allow a word which means to be alive to describe someone whose soul is alive. What other word should be used to describe them as being alive instead?

How honest are you when you avoid addressing what it says in Mark 12:26-27 which proves that your claim that "zao" is never used to refer to physically/bodily dead human beings is false? Do you think no one notices that you are avoiding addressing that passage?

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (zao): ye therefore do greatly err.

Here, Jesus is showing the Sadducees that people do not cease to exist when they physically/bodily die as they believed because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao). That means if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not alive right now, then God would not be their God. But, since their souls are living (zao), then that proves He is still their God even though they are physically dead.

In Mark 12:27 the word "zao" is used to refer to bodily dead people like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Are you honest enough to acknowledge that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

ZAO:

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines zaō firstly as meaning to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead).

In the New Testament, eternal life in the Greek is always referred to as aionios zoe, never as aionios zao.

In the NT, eternal life refers to the eternal life of the body, soul and spirit that we will be given when Jesus returns rather than perishing in the lake of fire. The body dies, so it is obviously not eternal. It has to be changed to be eternal (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). Scripture never teaches that the soul and spirit need to be changed to be eternal. It only teaches that about the body.

Throughout the New Testament, whenever the verses containing the word zao are referring to God, they are referring to the living [zao] God | the God who is alive [zao], who has eternal life [zoe] in Himself,

but whenever the verses containing the word zao are referring to created humans who are alive | living [zao], they are referring to humans who are alive in their human bodies (not dead | not lifeless), regardless of whether or not they have eternal life

This is false, as Mark 12:27 shows.

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living (zao): ye therefore do greatly err.

Here, Jesus is showing the Sadducees that people do not cease to exist when they physically/bodily die as they believed because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (zao). That means if Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not alive right now, then God would not be their God. But, since their souls are living (zao), then that proves He is still their God even though they are physically dead.

So, the claim that scripture only uses the word "zao" to refer to human beings who are bodily alive is proven to be false by Mark 12:27 where it is used to refer to bodily dead people who belong to God like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[Davidpt]

You are so dishonest that you won't even address the points I made, showing God the Father, who is a Spirit and has no body, as "zao" and the souls of those who belong to God like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as "zao". Why are you so afraid to admit you were wrong? That's much better than remaining prideful while denying the truth that has been presented to you.

Come on, pay attention to context. Like such.

Mark 12:18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,


Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

We have to keep in mind this.

Mark 12:18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say there is no resurrection; and they asked him, saying,

What is being denied here is a resurrection. They are not saying anything about the soul one way or the other, as to what happens to it upon death. So why are you bringing that into the passage? It's pretty obvious why He is not the God of the dead, but is the God of the living. And that's because one day, meaning the resurrection, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, are no longer going to be among the bodily dead, they are going to be among the bodily living again.

Using your logic, what about someone such as Cain, Judas, unbelieving Jews that have died, atheists that have died, etc, is He the God of the living of them too the fact their souls are alive as well, except not alive in heaven but alive in hell?

Once again this is the context---And as touching the dead, that they rise. That has zero to do with a disembodied state.

You have already falsely accused @Zao is life a cpl of times in this thread for believing in soul sleep, something he obviously doesn't believe in. I've read enough of his posts on this board and that other board where I initially encountered him, to know good and well that his position has never been soul sleep. Why don't you know that as well? How is it that you can supposedly interpret all Scriptures correctly but can't even get right that @Zao is life position is not soul sleep? If it was his position why would he be denying it then on top of that? Who does things like that? Holds a position but then denies holding that position?

You need to get off your high horse one of these days and admit that someone else might be right about some of these Scriptures being debated rather than you.

Amil cannot get past the following, and no arguments that they come up with can get them past the following---But the rest of the dead lived not BODILY again until the thousand years are finished. Therefore, undeniably telling us that, as of the beginning of the thousand years, the only dead still needing to live bodily again is the rest of the dead that don't live bodily again at the beginning of the thousand years, the first resurrection. This verse is the trump card. It is the verse that argues 2 + 2 = 4, and that no argument, not even a million arguments, are ever going to make it untrue that 2 + 2 = 4.