the Great Tribulation

[Earburner]

You the only one saying they didn't have faith in Jesus.You say Abraham didn't have faith in Jesus while Jesus says otherwise.

Absolutely false. The fact is, you don't hear what I say, because your mind is filled to the brim with the doctrines of church-ianity, aka "the wisdom of men", which is where/how "our faith should NOT stand...."

 

[tailgator]

1. The bodily resurrection of the martyrs, who are of the figurative 144,000 under the OC., after Jesus' mortal death, while on the cross. Please see KJV Mat. 27:50-54.
2. The figurative 144,000 remaining of the OC. permanently receive the "seal" of the HS after Jesus' death and resurrection. Please see Rev. 6:9-11.
3. Both Jew and Gentile, of faith in Jesus since Pentecost, are of the Great Multitude under the NC. See Rom. 10-12.

Of course David didn't bodily ascend to heaven yet, he wasn't a martyr of the "many" that were bodily resurrected right after Jesus death on the cross. Surely you don't believe that the many who were bodily resurrected then died a 2nd mortal death, do you??

David is of the figurative 144,000, who are "remembered" by God, "under the altar" of the OC. Therefore David, having received a "white robe", is in Paradise, along with the repentant thief, and is asleep resting in Jesus, waiting for Jesus' return.

Again, the "many" (not all), that were bodily resurrected by the Holy Spirit after Jesus death, are only those who were martyred of the 144,000 under the OC.

However, since Jesus' death and resurrection, ALL who were of faith in Israel, who weren't martyred, including David, are of those that God remembered, being the figurative 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of OC Israel.
After Jesus suffered mortal death and gave up the ghost, He went by His Holy Spirit and visited those who had died naturally under the OC., whom God had "remembered". Malachi 3:16-17; 1 Peter 3:18-20.
They each were then given a "white robe" [sealed], which is symbolic of the permanent Gift of the Holy Spirit of God (Rev. 6:9-11), but were told that they must rest yet awhile longer, until their fellow servants and their brethren should be killed as they were, being those who are under the NC.

When Jesus returns in all his Glory, in flaming fire, God shall bring with Him all who sleep in Jesus, being those who had died in faith of His coming in the flesh, both those of the OC and the NC.
1 Thes. 4:14.

The 144000 are sealed when there is a great earthquake
The stars of heaven fall into the earth
And the heavens depart as a scroll is rolled together.


Those events are not the death and resurection of Jesus. Those events are events of his second advent.

See revelation 6
Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?





The wrath of the lamb is not the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus.

 

[tailgator]

Absolutely false. The fact is, you don't hear what I say, because your mind is filled to the brim with the doctrines of church-ianity, aka "the wisdom of men", which is where/how "our faith should NOT stand...."

Oh I hear what you say and what you say is wrong.

 

[tailgator]

1. The bodily resurrection of the martyrs, who are of the figurative 144,000 under the OC., after Jesus' mortal death, while on the cross. Please see KJV Mat. 27:50-54.
2. The figurative 144,000 remaining of the OC. permanently receive the "seal" of the HS after Jesus' death and resurrection. Please see Rev. 6:9-11.
3. Both Jew and Gentile, of faith in Jesus since Pentecost, are of the Great Multitude under the NC. See Rom. 10-12.

Of course David didn't bodily ascend to heaven yet, he wasn't a martyr of the "many" that were bodily resurrected right after Jesus death on the cross. Surely you don't believe that the many who were bodily resurrected then died a 2nd mortal death, do you??

David is of the figurative 144,000, who are "remembered" by God, "under the altar" of the OC. Therefore David, having received a "white robe", is in Paradise, along with the repentant thief, and is asleep resting in Jesus, waiting for Jesus' return.

Again, the "many" (not all), that were bodily resurrected by the Holy Spirit after Jesus death, are only those who were martyred of the 144,000 under the OC.

However, since Jesus' death and resurrection, ALL who were of faith in Israel, who weren't martyred, including David, are of those that God remembered, being the figurative 144,000 out of the 12 tribes of OC Israel.
After Jesus suffered mortal death and gave up the ghost, He went by His Holy Spirit and visited those who had died naturally under the OC., whom God had "remembered". Malachi 3:16-17; 1 Peter 3:18-20.
They each were then given a "white robe" [sealed], which is symbolic of the permanent Gift of the Holy Spirit of God (Rev. 6:9-11), but were told that they must rest yet awhile longer, until their fellow servants and their brethren should be killed as they were, being those who are under the NC.

When Jesus returns in all his Glory, in flaming fire, God shall bring with Him all who sleep in Jesus, being those who had died in faith of His coming in the flesh, both those of the OC and the NC.
1 Thes. 4:14.

The 144000 are not sealed till the stars of heaven fall into the earth in revelation 6.

Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The stars of heaven did not fall into the earth when Christ was resurected.The stars fall unto the earth when Christ comes in the clouds and gathers his elect( the 144000.)


Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Earburner]

The 144000 are sealed when there is a great earthquake
The stars of heaven fall into the earth
And the heavens depart as a scroll is rolled together.


Those events are not the death and resurection of Jesus. Those events are events of his second advent.

See revelation 6
Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?





The wrath of the lamb is not the sacrifice and resurrection of Jesus.

Most have not figured it out yet that the figurative 144,000 is about the 12 tribes of OC Israel (martyrs included), which do not cohesively exist today, ever since 70 AD.

You should know (Isa. 55:8-9) that not everything in Revelation is chronological.
God thinks in the past, present and future, all at the same time, and therefore speaks accordingly.

 

[tailgator]

Most have not figured it out yet that the figurative 144,000 is about the 12 tribes of OC Israel (martyrs included), which do not cohesively exist today, ever since 70 AD.

You should know (Isa. 55:8-9) that not everything in Revelation is chronological.
God thinks in the past, present and future, all at the same time, and therefore speaks accordingly.

The stars of heaven do not fall to the earth till Christs second advent.
The 144000 are not sealed till the stars of heaven fall into the earth in revelation 6.



Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.




The stars of heaven did not fall into the earth in 70 AD.The stars fall unto the earth when Christ comes in the clouds and gathers his elect( the 144000.)





Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Earburner]

The stars of heaven do not fall to the earth till Christs second advent.
The 144000 are not sealed till the stars of heaven fall into the earth in revelation 6.



Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.




The stars of heaven did not fall into the earth in 70 AD.The stars fall unto the earth when Christ comes in the clouds and gathers his elect( the 144000.)





Mathew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Think this through by "the mind [Spirit] of Christ" within you:
Since Pentecost (under the NC.), every LIVING person of faith, who believes that the Messiah/Savior has come in the flesh, whether Jew or Gentile, and are born again of the Holy Spirit, is in permanent possession of the "Wedding Garment" (the white robe) of God's Righteousness, the Gift of Eternal Life. 1John 5:12-13.

The only ones who had never permanently possessed the gift of a "white robe" of God's Holy Spirit, were those of Israel of faith, while they lived under the OC.
WHY?
John 7
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified [resurrected].)

As a result, all who are shown to be under the altar, in Rev. 6:9-11, are no one else but the figurative 144,000 of OC. Israel, being those who God "remembered" in Malachi 3:16-17. Though they had died in faith long ago, believing "the Promise that was to come", God did not forget them!!

Therefore, in the time of Jesus death and resurrection, Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, went to them who were "remembered" by God, and GAVE them the permanent indwelling of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit to each one.
They ARE THE FIRSTFRUITS of God unto His plan of Salvation!!

I already gave you the scriptures that prove this out.