The Gospel is actually good news and here is why.

[BloodBought 1953]

We examine all my friend , including our own selves .

We examine all my friend , including our own selves .

Yes, we “ examine”.....we examine our Faith .....not our Performance....unless, of course , we are Self-Righteous and get our priorities backwards..

 

[Cooper]

Nobody paid the penalty. Our sins are forgiven.
Forgiveness means we are let off.
If the penalty is paid then there is no need for forgiveness. There is nothing left to forgive.

Don't you understand Jesus' parable in Mt 18:23-35
The servant had a debt he could not pay.
The master forgave him the debt.
No-one stepped in and paid the debt.

Jesus made satisfaction to God by his suffering and death.
Eph 5:2 "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God".
What Jesus did was a fragrant offering that pleased God and appeased his anger.
Heb 10:12 "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God".
Not when Christ had been punished for our sins

Heb 7:25 "Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them." Why is Christ interceding for us if he has been punished for our sins instead of us?

1John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Why do we need an advocate if Jesus has paid the penalty for sin and been punished for them?

And to repeat my points that no-one is addressing
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

There is always a penalty for sin, namely Hell.
.

 

[prism]

It is sooooooooooo refreshing to hear someone tell it like it is....

It is after all…the ‘crux’ of our existence:)

 

[Mungo]

Like I said... I can't bring myself to speak to you @Mungo....
Good luck with atoning for your sins... somehow I don't think that will go over very well when everything is said and done.

You can choose to respect the fact that I am truly horrified with your comments and beliefs and still REMAIN the ONLY Catholic I don't have
on ignore... or you can try to pursue this topic with me and get sent there.... Makes no difference to me.

Addy,
At the risk of you putting me on ignore I just want to say this.
I do not disagree in any way that Jesus atoned for our sins by his suffering and death, absolutely he did.
Where we differ is in exactly how that atonement worked.
Blessings

 

[Addy]

Addy,
At the risk of you putting me on ignore I just want to say this.
I do not disagree in any way that Jesus atoned for our sins by his suffering and death, absolutely he did.
Where we differ is in exactly how that atonement worked.
Blessings

You have NEVER disrespected me... and so you will not go on ignore... I cannot fault you for what you believe... I was just absolutely SHOCKED with your words is all.

 

[Addy]

I quickly found this on CARM apologetics.

Jesus paid for our sins in the sense that He took our sins upon Himself and died with them. He took our place and made a legal payment according to the Law. Payments are made to legal debts. We incur a legal debt to God when we sin because sin is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). Note that it is the LAW that we break–laws like the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17 ). Laws have punishments. Laws are legal requirements and boundaries. Therefore, we sin by breaking God’s law when we lie, steal, etc. When we sin, we incur a legal debt to God, and we deserve to be punished. But, Jesus, who was God in flesh ( John 1:1, 14), took our sins upon Himself and bore them in His body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). Since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Jesus died on the cross and paid our penalty, then that is how He paid for our sins.

It doesn't get plainer than that... and I cannot comprehend how someone is able to in good conscience call themselves a Christian without believing the above... It's just not possible.

 

[Mungo]

I quickly found this on CARM apologetics.

Jesus paid for our sins in the sense that He took our sins upon Himself and died with them. He took our place and made a legal payment according to the Law. Payments are made to legal debts. We incur a legal debt to God when we sin because sin is breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4). Note that it is the LAW that we break–laws like the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17 ). Laws have punishments. Laws are legal requirements and boundaries. Therefore, we sin by breaking God’s law when we lie, steal, etc. When we sin, we incur a legal debt to God, and we deserve to be punished. But, Jesus, who was God in flesh ( John 1:1, 14), took our sins upon Himself and bore them in His body on the cross (1 Peter 2:24). Since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Jesus died on the cross and paid our penalty, then that is how He paid for our sins.

It doesn't get plainer than that... and I cannot comprehend how someone is able to in good conscience call themselves a Christian without believing the above... It's just not possible.

Because it's plain wrong.
None of the scriptures say that Jesus paid the legal penalty for our sins

If you go back to the four points that I keep repeating and no-one answers you will see why.
I'll reproduce them for you here:
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

 

[Mungo]

There is always a penalty for sin, namely Hell.
.

So Jesus is in Hell?

And you haven't addressed any of the points I made

 

[Addy]

Because it's plain wrong.
None of the scriptures say that Jesus paid the legal penalty for our sins

If you go back to the four points that I keep repeating and no-one answers you will see why.
I'll reproduce them for you here:
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment

NO ... NO... NO... You are NOT going to attempt to TEACH me about this... I have no idea if this is CATHOLIC teaching or not... I never picked up this vibe when I was practicing.... but then it was all about the SACRAMENTS and nothing about JESUS.... Perhaps this is why. Your view is horrifying... I NEED to repeat this.... and you will either choose to acknowledge that you are on SACRED GROUND here or continue to press.

 

[Mungo]

NO ... NO... NO... You are NOT going to attempt to TEACH me about this... I have no idea if this is CATHOLIC teaching or not... I never picked up this vibe when I was practicing.... but then it was all about the SACRAMENTS and nothing about JESUS.... Perhaps this is why. Your view is horrifying... I NEED to repeat this.... and you will either choose to acknowledge that you are on SACRED GROUND here or continue to press.

OK Addy,
I won't respond to you any more in this thread.
God bless

 

[Addy]

OK Addy,
I won't respond to you any more in this thread.
God bless

and this is why you remain out of ignore land... You are respectful. A lovely quality to have. Bless you also... I will no longer be responding on this thread... regarding this topic... I sometimes make random humourous comments to a few friends I have collected.... but other than that... I am done here.

 

[Enoch111]

None of the scriptures say that Jesus paid the legal penalty for our sins

That is completely false. The "legal" penalty for sins is death (both the first and second deaths). And Christ paid the full penalty for sins on the cross. So you are denying a FUNDAMENTAL of the Christian faith.

 

[Enoch111]

But satisfaction does not mean God violated his justice by punishing an innocent man.

Evidently you do not really know or understand the Gospel. God actually PLANNED with Christ to do exactly that. A sinless and innocent Man (who is also God) would pay the penalty for all the wicked and the ungodly. For all mankind, since there is none righteous, no not one.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, we “ examine”.....we examine our Faith .....not our Performance....unless, of course , we are Self-Righteous and get our priorities backwards..

BB , they brainwashed you all real bad . To examine the fruits of others , IS THE DUTY of the Church . IT has nothing to do
with being self righteous . I imagine a lot of pastors enjoyed teaching what you all beleive . Cause it gets them off the hook of correction
and they can then focus on their true love and keep them numbers BIG . MONEY BB . MONEY .
They destroyed the churches and i refuse their doctrine .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is completely false. The "legal" penalty for sins is death (both the first and second deaths). And Christ paid the full penalty for sins on the cross. So you are denying a FUNDAMENTAL of the Christian faith.

SOUND IT OUT MY FRIEND . SOUND IT OUT .

 

[amigo de christo]

Evidently you do not really know or understand the Gospel. God actually PLANNED with Christ to do exactly that. A sinless and innocent Man (who is also God) would pay the penalty for all the wicked and the ungodly. For all mankind, since there is none righteous, no not one.

Sound it out my friend . Sound it out .

 

[prism]

Because it's plain wrong.
None of the scriptures say that Jesus paid the legal penalty for our sins

If you go back to the four points that I keep repeating and no-one answers you will see why.
I'll reproduce them for you here:
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

1. That's because Jesus never sinned. He bore our sin that we would not be eternally separated from God.
2. Many legally pay another's fine in today's court system.
3. The stipulation to be declared righteous (justified) is faith in Jesus, the One who bore the penalty for our sin.
4. God's grace and mercy is only possible because the debt has been paid as in "It is Finished".

You never did address my Isaiah quote...

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. (Isa 53:4-5)

 

[Cooper]

Yes, we “ examine”.....we examine our Faith .....not our Performance....unless, of course , we are Self-Righteous and get our priorities backwards..

Grace people have so much to learn and so much to jettison. These are believers who are being warned against falling from grace:

1Co_10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Heb_4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Heb_6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Jas_5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

2Pe_1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Pe_3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
.

 

[charity]

Look what they've done to your Good News, Lord!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Grace people have so much to learn and so much to jettison. These are believers who are being warned against falling from grace:

So, The 12 Dozen Plain Scriptures that us "GRACE people" learned here...:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance

...are FALSE? And, "jettisoned" by your few obscure/difficult/dubious verses???