The good the bad, and the rest
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Jesus is the embodiment of Yahweh’s logos.
Jesus is a Jewish monotheist. His God is only one person. By definition, Jesus himself is a unitarian.
You have a theology (a 4th century theology, if we can look past the polytheism of your belief) which Jesus himself doesn’t.
Having already addressed the disconnect you attempted to make between the Messiah and his monotheism, this is an important point for our readers to understand:
“Is anyone else besides “ABBA/Father“ the Messiah’s God?”
No.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
only your opinions
Every word MUST be approved by God in His WORD, otherwise it is just your fallen opinion.
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
ABBA/Father is Elohim
WORD is Elohim
HOLY SPIRIT is Elohim
When the WORD emptied Himself and became flesh as the only begotten Son of God, Elohim came into the world.
It is at this point in TIME that the WORD which was God came to earth as a man.
Therefore, while EMPTIED of His Eternal GLORY as Elohim, the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us.
As a man HE was subject to the FATHER and His FATHER is GOD
Only the sons of God know the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE = no one else!!!
No. You can find them all confirmed in trinitarian sources.
See above.
See above.
The Messiah’s God is only one person. The Messiah himself explicitly tells us that in scripture.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Irrevocable TRUTH #1 - Elohim WORD has Elohim FATHER has Elohim Holy Spirit
Irrevocable TRUTH #2 - Elohim WORD became flesh and dwelt among us = "Immanuel, God with us"
Irrevocable TRUTH #3 - the only begotten SON returned to His Status as Elohim WORD
You commented that it was only my opinion. I referred you to trinitarian scholarship to demonstrate that you’re mistaken.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
i do not follow trinitarian scholarship
i follow the WORD that was God and dwelt among us
Start with what I wrote: “The Messiah’s God is only one person. The Messiah himself explicitly tells us that in scripture.”
Are you able or unable to agree with that?
I was slowly coming to that conclusion. I do follow trinitarian scholarship.
Then you will have heard him say yourself that his God and the God of his disciples is only one person, the Father.
We don’t need trinitarian scholars to confirm it, but they do.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Start with GENESIS where ALL TRUTH Begins and Stands upon.
The Apostle John begins with GENESIS so that we can KNOW exactly who Elohim is.
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
HE was in the beginning with God.
All things were made thru HIM.
If you reject this in ANY way, you are in the under the same spiritual blindness as the monotheistic Jews who cry "crucify HIM"
Genesis was written by a Jewish monotheist. We can start with the Jewish monotheism of the Hebrew Bible but that would settle it quickly (Jewish monotheism isn’t trinitarian). There are trinitarian scholars who look at Genesis through the prism of Jewish monotheism but you’ve already told me that you don’t follow trinitarian scholarship. (I’ve learned more from trinitarian scholarship than I have from non-trinitarian scholarship.)
I’ve suggested that we start with Jesus himself. You’ve bucked against that, too. Jesus is a Jewish monotheist; a unitarian, not a trinitarian. What Jesus believed is far removed from what 4th century trinitarianism believes - and you’re far removed from 4th century trinitarianism with your belief in plural elohim -> gods.
He does. John, like Jesus, is a Jewish monotheist. We already know what you think about Jewish monotheism. You’ll view what he wrote through a prism that he himself didn’t have.
I’ll use the Bible of the Protestant Reformation - another trinitarian translation.
”In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.”
(Geneva Bible, 1599)
That is precisely how a Jewish monotheist, drawing on his background in the Hebrew language, would understand Genesis.
You just trashed the Protestant Reformation (and every trinitarian translator prior to 1611 who translated directly from Greek to English.)
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
P.S.
Jewish monotheists living in biblical times - Old Testament, Inter Testament, and New Testament - knew exactly who the elohim (singular, not plural) God (singular, not plural) of Israel is. John is in full agreement with them. So are the other apostles, so is the Messiah, and so am I.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Genesis and the entire Scriptures was written by ElohimGenesis was written by a Jewish monotheist. We can start with the Jewish monotheism of the Hebrew Bible but that would settle it quickly (Jewish monotheism isn’t trinitarian). There are trinitarian scholars who look at Genesis through the prism of Jewish monotheism but you’ve already told me that you don’t follow trinitarian scholarship. (I’ve learned more from trinitarian scholarship than I have from non-trinitarian scholarship.)
I’ve suggested that we start with Jesus himself. You’ve bucked against that, too. Jesus is a Jewish monotheist; a unitarian, not a trinitarian. What Jesus believed is far removed from what 4th century trinitarianism believes - and you’re far removed from 4th century trinitarianism with your belief in plural elohim -> gods.
He does. John, like Jesus, is a Jewish monotheist. We already know what you think about Jewish monotheism. You’ll view what he wrote through a prism that he himself didn’t have.
I’ll use the Bible of the Protestant Reformation - another trinitarian translation.
”In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.”
(Geneva Bible, 1599)
That is precisely how a Jewish monotheist, drawing on his background in the Hebrew language, would understand Genesis.
You just trashed the Protestant Reformation (and every trinitarian translator prior to 1611 who translated directly from Greek to English.)
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
www.biblegateway.com
P.S.
Jewish monotheists living in biblical times - Old Testament, Inter Testament, and New Testament - knew exactly who the elohim (singular, not plural) God (singular, not plural) of Israel is. John is in full agreement with them. So are the other apostles, so is the Messiah, and so am I.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
Failure to submit to the Will of Elohim where leave you stranded in your own opinions.
No. It was written by Jewish monotheists who were inspired by Yahweh.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jewish montheism is dead works = no salvation in it
Elohim is PLURAL and is THREE
Without THREE no one can be SAVED
Jewish monotheism is the Messiah’s monotheism. No life in it = a bizarre assertion.
I’ve already addressed this. You don’t translate from Hebrew into English what you’re asserting. Even trinitarianism doesn’t do what you’re doing.
With belief in God (Yahweh) and in the Messiah (Jesus of Nazareth), I’m saved. There’s nothing at all that you or anyone else can say or do that will be able to change that.
Elohim is a Hebrew word that is always plural in form but not always plural in meaning.
We have words like this in English too.
For example, deer.
”I see deer in the woods.” How many deer do I see? One? Three? Twelve?
Deer. Plural in form, singular in meaning -> I see one deer.
Deer. Plural in form, plural in meaning -> I see more than one deer.
***
Elohim.
”I see elohim in scripture.” How many elohim do I see? One? Three? Twelve?
Elohim. Plural in form, singular in meaning -> I see one.
Elohim. Plural in form, plural in meaning —> I see more than one.
***
When someone tells us that elohim is plural they are telling us that they are speaking about more than one god.
When someone tells us that elohim is singular they are telling us that they are speaking about one god.
***
When someone says elohim is plural, ask them to translate it into English.
If they do, and if they know what they’re talking about, they will translate it as “gods”.
If they do and they translate it as “god” then they don’t know what they’re talking about.
If they refuse to translate it, you’ve caught them out.
***
The elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always plural in form, singular in meaning.
The elohim of Moses is always plural in form, singular in meaning.
The elohim of Jesus is always plural in form, singular in meaning.
***
Yahweh is the elohim and abba of our lord Jesus Messiah.
Yahweh is the God (elohim, plural in form, singular in meaning) - not the gods (elohim, plural in form, plural in meaning) - and Father of our lord Jesus Messiah.
