The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[marks]

It’s not a problem for me per se, as I’m not experiecing the discord of the misunderstanding. It’s just how it feels that’s relevant. There is no proof required for feeling.

Are you speaking of the reality vs. the idea/ideal?

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Direct experience is perfection and is certainly not in any need of defending.


Any one can inspect & therein dispel any belief.

So you don’t believe in absolute truth?

Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

When did you accept Jesus as your Savior?
How was your life transformed by Him?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It’s not a problem for me per se, as I’m not experiecing the discord of the misunderstanding. It’s just how it feels that’s relevant. There is no proof required for feeling.

People have a feeling that the earth is flat but that does not make them right. So feelings alone are not always a valid argument. The Bible says the heart is deceitful. You need evidence. Granted, God wants us to believe His Word by faith but it is not an unreasonable faith. There are even evidences that support the Bible. Not that we needed evidence in order to believe God’s Word. But the point here is one needs to establish a belief either on God’s Word and or evidence (that would agree with the Bible). Feelings alone does not always establish truth. People can be deceived by their feelings and or even false dreams or visions.

 

[HIM]

No, though informed by his own experience, the "I" is Paul speaking in character for any Christian (especially the Gentile Christians in Rome) being asked to take on Torah. The key is verse 9, I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died. Paul was born a Jew; when was he EVER alive apart from Torah? Only a Christian can be said to be alive apart from the Law.

Not true. Romans 8:2 Paul states that he is free from the Law of sin that he said he was in captivity too.

 

[HIM]

Hi Lambano, got a bit weary of forums, but "Hope does not dissapoint..." :) thankyou for your encouragement. Gb

When I came to realize it is human nature to think I am always right and have to have an answer for everything it made places like this easier to deal with.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hi Lambano, got a bit weary of forums, but "Hope does not dissapoint..." :) thankyou for your encouragement. Gb

all about going in pointless circles, here in the cult of sol invictus
huh

 

[bbyrd009]

We need to be honest with ourselves, and stop making exceptions for sin!

ha, you think?
i suggest that there is a better way to go fwiw
make exceptions for practically all of them

 

[-Phil]

Are you speaking of the reality vs. the idea/ideal?

Much love!

Truly, one & the same - much love!

So you don’t believe in absolute truth?

What’s absolutely true is unbelievable.

Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

The difference between belief & the truth is one is the truth.

When did you accept Jesus as your Savior?

Savior from what?

How was your life transformed by Him?

There are really only two necessary components to a real dream; somewhere it seems to be transpiring, and someway of experiencing the somewhere. Dreaming it seemed I was the former; awake, there are neither. I am.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What’s absolutely true is unbelievable.

I asked if you believed in absolute truth and this was your answer above.
Sounds to me like you are suggesting that even absolute truth is unbelievable.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).

This is important to believe in Jesus (who is the truth) because He says:

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24).

I said: Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

You replied with:

The difference between belief & the truth is one is the truth.

This sounds like an evasion of the question and you are not really in agreement that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Do you believe men are saved by hearing the words of the Bible by the working of the Spirit?

I asked: When did you accept Jesus as your Savior?
You replied with:

Savior from what?

Most believers would not ask this kind of question in return and they will be happy to tell me when and give their testimony of how Jesus saved them from their past life of sins and changed their heart, mind, and way of life. Most Christians know that Jesus saves us by His grace (See Ephesians 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5). It seems like you are not even aware of these kinds of verses.

I asked: When was your life transformed by Him (i.e. Jesus)?
You replied with:

There are really only two necessary components to a real dream; somewhere it seems to be transpiring, and someway of experiencing the somewhere. Dreaming it seemed I was the former; awake, there are neither. I am.

So you are saying it was only a dream that you were transformed by Jesus and it was not really real?
A person is given a new heart, with new desires if they believe the gospel message in that Jesus died for their sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for their salvation (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). They are changed by calling upon the name of the Lord (Saying “Lord Jesus“ or similar equivalent in seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him - realizing that they are lost with Him). They are changed by receiving (or inviting) Christ into their life (John 1:12). So there is no need to dream but to face the reality of Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins that He offers.

 

[-Phil]

I asked if you believed in absolute truth and this was your answer above.
Sounds to me like you are suggesting that even absolute truth is unbelievable.

Misconstruing can be earnestly considered and therein inevitably & simply, effortlessly recognized as a sort of addiction, the momentum of which deflates in the awareness of the misconstruing. The ‘addictive nature’ is intrinsicolly recognized to be a ‘high’ of sorts, of upholding a self image, which of course is an image self is aware of, and therein is not per se, the self which is aware.

Not ‘even’ absolute truth is unbelievable; only absolute truth is unbelievable.
Nothing need be added.
The difference between belief and the truth, is one is the truth.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).

Exactly! So simple, clear & precise. Not a word added which need not be, nor a quotation marker be shifted to misconstrue.

This is important to believe in Jesus (who is the truth) because He says:

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24).

Maybe take a five minute breaking from believing, adding & misconstruing… and just let what’s said ‘sink in’, or, ‘wash over you’.
Or don’t of course, as you’re absolutely free!
Much love!

Let ye die in ye’s sins & rejoice!
Much love!

I said: Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God?

You replied with:

This sounds like an evasion of the question and you are not really in agreement that the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
Do you believe men are saved by hearing the words of the Bible by the working of the Spirit?

I am is like a finger pointing to the moon, yet ye fixates on the pointing finger, noticing not ‘the moon’. Therein ye reappropriates and purports of ignorance in the light of the moon.

I asked: When did you accept Jesus as your Savior?
You replied with:

Most believers would not ask this kind of question in return and they will be happy to tell me when and give their testimony of how Jesus saved them from their past life of sins and changed their heart, mind, and way of life. Most Christians know that Jesus saves us by His grace (See Ephesians 2:8-9, and Titus 3:5). It seems like you are not even aware of these kinds of verses.

Telling such a story is elusive. As simply as two good ears can hear; I am.
As is.
Not a thing need added.

I asked: When was your life transformed by Him (i.e. Jesus)?
You replied with:

So you are saying it was only a dream that you were transformed by Jesus and it was not really real?

What’s said is what’s said. What’s added is what’s added.
Add whatever ye believe need be added!
It just isn’t what’s said.

A person is given a new heart, with new desires if they believe the gospel message in that Jesus died for their sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for their salvation (See: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). They are changed by calling upon the name of the Lord (Saying “Lord Jesus“ or similar equivalent in seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him - realizing that they are lost with Him). They are changed by receiving (or inviting) Christ into their life (John 1:12). So there is no need to dream but to face the reality of Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins that He offers.

To hear what’s said is simple, but such a hearing occurs in the absence of misconstruing, purporting truth, and or adding to what’s said.
Questions might arise; no doubt. Yet what’s said is already unbelievably whole, complete and perfect.
I am, and therein have absolutely never changed. It sure seems ye wants me to, but I can only appear to as it were.

When it is assumed one experiences sleep, it is assumed one woke up.
But where is this sleep? This past? This one?
Absolutely; there is no need to dream.

 

[marks]

ha, you think?
i suggest that there is a better way to go fwiw
make exceptions for practically all of them

I'm just saying, don't "parse" sins as if some are "not really sins". We don't need to try to change the nature of sin to feel OK about ourselves, rather look to Jesus Who took care of our "sin problem", and instead of making excuses, we walk in the liberty He gave us.

Parsing sins denies what Jesus did, I think.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm just saying, don't "parse" sins as if some are "not really sins". We don't need to try to change the nature of sin to feel OK about ourselves, rather look to Jesus Who took care of our "sin problem", and instead of making excuses, we walk in the liberty He gave us.

Parsing sins denies what Jesus did, I think.

Much love!

ah ok, you mean personal sins i guess, not other’s sins
then i agree
i would even avoid many actions that no one else would deem sin, yeh
hmm but i would also indulge in some things that are outright illegal, in the right circumstances
weird

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Misconstruing can be earnestly considered and therein inevitably & simply, effortlessly recognized as a sort of addiction, the momentum of which deflates in the awareness of the misconstruing. The ‘addictive nature’ is intrinsicolly recognized to be a ‘high’ of sorts, of upholding a self image, which of course is an image self is aware of, and therein is not per se, the self which is aware.

Not ‘even’ absolute truth is unbelievable; only absolute truth is unbelievable.
Nothing need be added.
The difference between belief and the truth, is one is the truth.


Exactly! So simple, clear & precise. Not a word added which need not be, nor a quotation marker be shifted to misconstrue.


Maybe take a five minute breaking from believing, adding & misconstruing… and just let what’s said ‘sink in’, or, ‘wash over you’.
Or don’t of course, as you’re absolutely free!
Much love!

Let ye die in ye’s sins & rejoice!
Much love!


I am is like a finger pointing to the moon, yet ye fixates on the pointing finger, noticing not ‘the moon’. Therein ye reappropriates and purports of ignorance in the light of the moon.


Telling such a story is elusive. As simply as two good ears can hear; I am.
As is.
Not a thing need added.


What’s said is what’s said. What’s added is what’s added.
Add whatever ye believe need be added!
It just isn’t what’s said.


To hear what’s said is simple, but such a hearing occurs in the absence of misconstruing, purporting truth, and or adding to what’s said.
Questions might arise; no doubt. Yet what’s said is already unbelievably whole, complete and perfect.
I am, and therein have absolutely never changed. It sure seems ye wants me to, but I can only appear to as it were.

When it is assumed one experiences sleep, it is assumed one woke up.
But where is this sleep? This past? This one?
Absolutely; there is no need to dream.

I asked simple questions of which you did not give a clear answer to.
You are still evasive with your answers and I don’t have time to try and figure out what you believe when you speak in riddles and mysteries. You criticized before about how “ism” would cause confusion and yet I have not seen that in my experience. It is ironic that you appear to be concerned with clarity of information and yet, your very words are not really attempting to clarify anything but they cause confusion (at least from my perspective). I asked simple questions and you dodge them and speak in riddles and mysteries.

I think it is best we move on because everything I say appears to be changed around as if I am your enemy (Despite your copying poster “Marks” phrase that says, “Much love.”).

No offense: But you also speak things contrary to Scripture. Nobody should rejoice if anyone dies in their sins. According to the Bible: God does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

So I believe it is best I move on from talking with you (Seeing you are this way). My goal is to love everyone and some folks are best loved by simply praying for them. For I don’t think our discussions involving Scripture will be fruitful as it should be. Note: I even have discussions with an OSAS Christian friend (whereby I am strongly against OSAS). We still have fruitful discussions and can agree upon things in the Bible. I am just not seeing that with you. Therefore, you have my love in the form of prayer.

So I am moving on from talking with you. Do not be surprised if others do the same (If you continue to be mysterious in your responses).

May the Lord’s love shine upon you greatly (Despite our disagreement on the truth of God’s Word and your lack of proper communication).

 

[marks]

ah ok, you mean personal sins i guess, not other’s sins
then i agree
i would even avoid many actions that no one else would deem sin, yeh
hmm but i would also indulge in some things that are outright illegal, in the right circumstances
weird

I see my manner of obedience to God is something more between me and God than to involve others. Though I'm not to live in such a way as to hurt others, or to discourage them in their faith. I want to build up and not tear down.

But this entire obsession of "will we ever stop sinning in this life" and "do we have to stop sinning in this life", it all promotes more sinning as I see it. A fixation on sin results in sin, again, as I see it.

Much love!

 

[-Phil]

I asked simple questions of which you did not give a clear answer to.
You are still evasive with your answers and I don’t have time to try and figure out what you believe when you speak in riddles and mysteries.

If you have any specific questions as to what’s being said, feel free to ask.

You criticized before about how “ism” would cause confusion and yet I have not seen that in my experience.

Yet.

It is ironic that you appear to be concerned with clarity of information and yet, your very words are not really attempting to clarify anything but they cause confusion (at least from my perspective). I asked simple questions and you dodge them and speak in riddles and mysteries.

Uncluttered of accusations, the truth is clear, simple, plain, self-evident.

I think it is best we move on because everything I say appears to be changed around as if I am your enemy (Despite your copying poster “Marks” phrase that says, “Much love.”).

Enemylessness, much love!

No offense: But you also speak things contrary to Scripture. Nobody should rejoice if anyone dies in their sins. According to the Bible: God does not take pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.

If one dies of one’s sins, no longer is there one experiencing sins, yet; I am.
The one who can die was never the one at all.

So I believe it is best I move on from talking with you (Seeing you are this way). My goal is to love everyone and some folks are best loved by simply praying for them. For I don’t think our discussions involving Scripture will be fruitful as it should be.

Life without shoulds is divine.

Note: I even have discussions with an OSAS Christian friend (whereby I am strongly against OSAS). We still have fruitful discussions and can agree upon things in the Bible. I am just not seeing that with you. Therefore, you have my love in the form of prayer.

Can you see past what you think?

So I am moving on from talking with you. Do not be surprised if others do the same (If you continue to be mysterious in your responses).

Nothings mysterious here, nothing is hidden.

May the Lord’s love shine upon you greatly (Despite our disagreement on the truth of God’s Word and your lack of proper communication).

No disagreement in truth. Much love!

Narrow is the gate.
Tis not for the many.

 

[marks]

ha, you think?
i suggest that there is a better way to go fwiw
make exceptions for practically all of them

Regarding other people's sins, I'd say for the most part forget about them, ignore them, don't count that they are "against you", they are not, they are against God, and God will take care of us.

We are to be forgiving of others plain and simple.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Nothings mysterious here, nothing is hidden.

Maybe I know what you are saying, maybe I don't. You aren't helping to make this clear. Do you want to be understood? Or don't you care?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

But this entire obsession of "will we ever stop sinning in this life" and "do we have to stop sinning in this life", it all promotes more sinning as I see it. A fixation on sin results in sin, again, as I see it.

Reader,

Sin consciousness is the root of confessing sin.

People that dwell on sin, are not yet freed from the curse of the law that is driving their self effort to try to be "good enough".
See that mind?
That mind is carnal, and is not resting in God's Grace. Instead its trying to keep the law and commandments and strive to do good works, as that carnal mind is convinced (deceived) into thinking that trying to be good, is how you become Good.......and its not.

God has made us RIGHTEOUS, and that is way beyond us trying to be good., and when we have that mind, that understands that we are already made righteous and will remain so...based on the blood of Jesus......then God's Grace will provide the escape from trying to perform for God to be accepted.

Few.
FEW believers ever come to this revelation.
Most are stuck in the mind of the flesh, and that mind is "under the law" and it will keep you sin conscious.

 

[-Phil]

Maybe I know what you are saying, maybe I don't. You aren't helping to make this clear. Do you want to be understood? Or don't you care?

Much love!

Neither. I can not be understood.

 

[marks]

Neither. I can not be understood.

OK, thanks! I won't try then.

Much love!