The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Randy Kluth]

Bad point. Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood.

I apologize. You're right--it was 7 days later, after Noah entered the ark, that the Flood began. Does that make your point then because there was a 7 day interval? You decide:

Gen 7.6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

So I was not right--it wasn't the exact same day that Noah entered the ark that the wicked were destroyed. It was 7 days later.

I don't think it makes your point either way, same day or same year. You claim that there is a 7 year or a 3.5 year gap. This is a zero year gap!

7 days does suggest a gap, but hardly "pretribulational!" How does 7 days in the ark translate into escape from the tribulation of the Flood?

The Flood didn't even begin until the 17th day of the 2nd month of the 600th year of Noah! That's when the Tribulation began, and that's when Noah escaped--that very same day!

So defective argument on my part, but still a good point, I think?

 

[The Light]

I apologize. You're right--it was 7 days later, after Noah entered the ark, that the Flood began. Does that make your point then because there was a 7 day interval? You decide:

Gen 7.6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.

So I was not right--it wasn't the exact same day that Noah entered the ark that the wicked were destroyed. It was 7 days later.

I don't think it makes your point either way, same day or same year. You claim that there is a 7 year or a 3.5 year gap. This is a zero year gap!

7 days does suggest a gap, but hardly "pretribulational!" How does 7 days in the ark translate into escape from the tribulation of the Flood?

The Flood didn't even begin until the 17th day of the 2nd month of the 600th year of Noah! That's when the Tribulation began, and that's when Noah escaped--that very same day!

So defective argument on my part, but still a good point, I think?

You probably should reread Genesis 7 a few more times.

God shut the ark door 6 days before the flood. They were eating and drinking until the day Noah entered the ark.

When the Church enters the ark, before the tribulation, do you think they will be eating and drinking and marrying and being married. Or do you think they will be buying all the alien propaganda.

Additionally, the tribulation began the day Noah entered the ark. The wrath of God began with the flood 6 days later.

 

[The Light]

It doesn't say that. You say that. You cannot show that. You are fighting with Jesus. Not wise!

Please.

Genesis 7
And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark in the self-same day. That day was the day he was told to enter the ark.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Conclusion

Notice the parallels with the pre-trib rapture:

1. There is an element of surprise. No one knew when the wedding would take place except the father.

2. There is a sense of imminency. The bride and her bridesmaids had to always be ready because they didn’t know the exact hour of the wedding.

3. There is a seven-day period where the groom and bride are secluded.

a. This corresponds to Daniel’s Seventh Week, where one week represents seven years.
4. There is a wedding feast during this period that culminates in the grand marriage supper.

a. Those who were invited but did not come were locked out of the celebration in outer darkness, where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I did a thread a year ago about the Galilean Wedding, but I did not see any such concluding parallel with a Pre-Trib. Rapture.
1. We are given preliminary signs to look for in Matt. 24: " the begining of sorrows" and that " the gospel will be preached to every Tribe and nation and the end will come. Anytime during the GT will be a sudden surprise.
2. The signs gives us a sense of imminency. Wars ) particularly in tye Middle East right now), earthquakes, pestilence (Covid-19), and the Gospel has been preached to the entire world.
3. A marriage ceremony celebration can occur after the GT is over.

The trumpet sound is the last trumpet btw. How could the wedding trumpet be the last if there are seven trumpets blown during the GT? I say omniscient a Mid-Trib. Rapture @ the 7th Trumpet.
Look at what happens St the 7th trumpet:
1. "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ;
2. He begins His reign forever and ever.”
3. Worship and thanks
4. Wrath comes /Armeggedon/ deadly harvest
5. The dead are judged
6. Rewards are given to the Church
7. The Temple of God is opened
8. Mystery of God is revealed and the mystery of what we will be like as well.
9. Flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder, and an earthquake, and a great hailstorm.

Thread 'A Galilean Wedding & the Second Coming ...' A Galilean Wedding & the Second Coming ...

BTW, I didn't get as much traction as you did. Only a few found it interesting. The Galilean Wedding does parallel elements of the Second Coming when Jesus comes for His Bride; that I agree with.
Heck Great Tribulation is about to start in Israel. Iran along with nine other nations ( that I think manifests the BEAST) is about to attack Israel ... we are likely only months away from seeing this war against Israel. This will escalate until likely a nuclear war ends it in one hour.

 

[The Light]

Your inventing of 2 future comings in any one single text. It is incredible that anyone would buy into this. You have nothing to bring to the table apart from private interpretation.

What Scripture teaches (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ?

I don't know. Is there one?

What scripture tells us 1) we are saved by faith, 2) and be given crowns 3. and He has gone to prepare a place for us?

 

[WPM]

Please.

Genesis 7
And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark in the self-same day. That day was the day he was told to enter the ark.

According to this, and according to the words of Christ, they entered the ark on the day the flood came. You are fighting with Jesus here and the fuller and more detailed NT revelation. You, like many Pretribbers, explain away the New by your faulty opinion of the Old.

 

[WPM]

I don't know. Is there one?

What scripture tells us 1) we are saved by faith, 2) and be given crowns 3. and He has gone to prepare a place for us?

Exactly. You have nothing. It is a man-made Jesuit doctrine that you have bought into. That is why it should be rejected. You have no Scripture because it is not in the secret text.

 

[The Light]

Exactly. You have nothing. It is a man-made Jesuit doctrine that you have bought into. That is why it should be rejected. You have no Scripture because it is not in the secret text.

So you're saying that we are not saved by faith, getting any crowns and Jesus has not gone to prepare a place for us?

 

[WPM]

So you're saying that we are not saved by faith, getting any crowns and Jesus has not gone to prepare a place for us?

You are trying to deflect away from the fact that your end-time scenario is not found in God's Book. This is something most of us already know. Your admission exposes the fallacy of you still holding unto it. It is a man-made Jesuit doctrine.

The reality is: this 2-future-comings theory was invented by Emmanuel Lacunza (or Manuel de Lacunza y Diaz), a Chilean theologian of Spanish descent (born in Santiago, Chile, July 19, 1731, and died at Imola, Italy, June 17, 1801). He became a member of the Jesuit order in 1747 at the age of 16.

Lacunza wrote this book under the assumed name of Rabbi Ben-Ezra as a "converted Jew". The book was finished in 1790, and then circulated in manuscript form before it was published at Cadiz, Spain, in 1812. This was during the time of Cortez in Spain, and after Cortez the book was suppressed, and as much as possible withdrawn from circulation. Lacunza died in June 1801, before the book was ever published in book form.

Rev. Edward Irving, a Presbyter of the Church of Scotland, who had been the assistant to Dr. Chalmers in Glasgow, translated this book of Lacunza from the Spanish in 1826, and it was published in English by L.B. Seely and Son, Fleet Street, London, in 1827.

This is the origin of Pretrib. It is not in the Bible, as your avoidance has proved. You have zero biblical evidence, only speculations and theories.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You probably should reread Genesis 7 a few more times.

God shut the ark door 6 days before the flood. They were eating and drinking until the day Noah entered the ark.

When the Church enters the ark, before the tribulation, do you think they will be eating and drinking and marrying and being married. Or do you think they will be buying all the alien propaganda.

Additionally, the tribulation began the day Noah entered the ark. The wrath of God began with the flood 6 days later.

Nice try! ;) So you think Noah stepping into the ark was an escape from a Tribulation that began on that day? What tribulation was Noah suffering for 7 days until the rains started? Was it his isolation? Was it people knocking on the door, trying to get in? Were the saints being persecuted and killed?

Were the wicked being judged on the day that Noah stepped into the ark? If not, then no so-called "Tribulation" began on the day Noah entered the ark.

Do you really think Noah and his family were "eating and drinking" to typify the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? Do you?

No, there was no joy in the ark when the door was shut. And they were not escaping any judgment that poured out on that day. No, the "Tribulation," if you will, began for the wicked world 7 days later.

No Pretribulation escape for Noah and his family. On the day judgment began to be poured out, that's when Noah and his family escaped.

Judgment and escape coincided, which is not a Pretribulation Escape! It was over for the wicked world on the day the *ark* made its escape and lifted off! There was no "Tribulation Period" at all in the Flood account. No Pretribulation model by which to prove a Pretribulation Rapture of the Church.

On the other hand, it is a model of the Postribulational Rapture of the Church. Noah and his family escaped on the day judgment was poured out on and destroyed the wicked world. This is in fact the Postribulational model.

 

[Randy Kluth]

According to this, and according to the words of Christ, they entered the ark on the day the flood came. You are fighting with Jesus here and the fuller and more detailed NT revelation. You, like many Pretribbers, explain away the New by your faulty opinion of the Old.

I guess I wasn't wrong after all... or was I? ;) It appears both things are true, that Noah entered the ark 7 days before the Flood started, but must have stepped out again, only to step back in on the same day it started to rain?? That's the only thing I can figure out. But thanks for your contribution on this matter!

Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

This was the "last supper" for the wicked world on that very day! There was no "tribulation period" to escape from. Escaping from the world judgment of that day is precisely what Postribulationism says.

I think the account in Genesis is a little ambiguous about the order of events. It does sound as if Noah entered the ark 7 days prior to the Flood, but then in the same account we are told that Noah entered the ark the *same day* that the Flood began. So maybe we're just reading it wrong thinking that Noah didn't enter the ark on the day the Flood began?

Gen 7.12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

Jesus said it was the same day as the Flood that Noah entered the ark, and I'll go with his interpretation.

 

[WPM]

I guess I wasn't wrong after all... or was I? ;) It appears both things are true, that Noah entered the ark 7 days before the Flood started, but must have stepped out again, only to step back in on the same day it started to rain?? That's the only thing I can figure out. But thanks for your contribution on this matter!

Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

This was the "last supper" for the wicked world on that very day! There was no "tribulation period" to escape from. Escaping from the world judgment of that day is precisely what Postribulationism says.

I think the account in Genesis is a little ambiguous about the order of events. It does sound as if Noah entered the ark 7 days prior to the Flood, but then in the same account we are told that Noah entered the ark the *same day* that the Flood began. So maybe we're just reading it wrong thinking that Noah didn't enter the ark on the day the Flood began?

Gen 7.12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

Jesus said it was the same day as the Flood that Noah entered the ark, and I'll go with his interpretation.

Genesis doesn't say he entered the ark 7 days prior. It shows he received the instruction. Let us analyze this.

Genesis 7:4-19

1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

This is (not surprisingly) in agreement with the words of Christ. The focus is the day the flood came. That is the saleint day in view here. According to this, "the selfsame day" Noah entered the ark was expressly "after seven days." It was then "that the waters of the flood were upon the earth."

 

[Timtofly]

Not glossing anything over, I don't define the "Day of the Lord" in the same way every place the term is used. In my understanding, the Church is wed to Christ at the moment we are glorified. Prior to that we are not properly "dressed" for the occasion!

The church is not wed until after the Millennium.

Did you think the honeymoon was a thousand years of work on earth, after one life of serving God?

Being dressed or not is hardly relevant as that is all metaphor any way. Do you think that being redeemed was just dressing up as a bride?

The whole point is being restored as a full son of God: soul, body, and spirit. That "wedding garment" is putting on your spirit that is waiting for you in heaven, before the throne of God.

Jesus is married to Israel during the Millennium as He is the King sitting in Jerusalem, over all the nations on earth. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom, after the first 6 have fallen.


As for the Antichrist, has that not already been fulfilled at the Reformation? John seems to leave out calling any entity an antichrist in the book of Revelation. Did you ever think his other books were pointing to the Reformation?

 

[Randy Kluth]

The church is not wed until after the Millennium.

So you think the Marriage Feast is a 1000 years before the actual Marriage?

Rev 19.6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:
“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready."

Please note below how Jesus' parable of his 2nd Coming coincides with how the door was shut during the Flood. This is symbolic of Christ's 2nd Coming--not a 1000 years later!

Matt 24.37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.... 25.10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

Jesus is married to Israel during the Millennium as He is the King sitting in Jerusalem, over all the nations on earth. Jesus is the 7th Kingdom, after the first 6 have fallen.

You don't think the Wedding, and its Feast, are for the Church? If not, why was the book of Revelation written specifically to the Church?

 

[The Light]

Nice try! ;) So you think Noah stepping into the ark was an escape from a Tribulation that began on that day? What tribulation was Noah suffering for 7 days until the rains started? Was it his isolation? Was it people knocking on the door, trying to get in? Were the saints being persecuted and killed?

What do you mean try? All I have to do is post the Word of God. It is God that says they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood.

Matthew 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Were the wicked being judged on the day that Noah stepped into the ark? If not, then no so-called "Tribulation" began on the day Noah entered the ark.

The wicked did not experience the wrath of God until the flood came. However, there was no party going on after Noah entered the ark.

Do you really think Noah and his family were "eating and drinking" to typify the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? Do you?

Come on. The verses are talking the world eating and drinking, not Noah.

No Pretribulation escape for Noah and his family. On the day judgment began to be poured out, that's when Noah and his family escaped.

Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing.

Judgment and escape coincided, which is not a Pretribulation Escape! It was over for the wicked world on the day the *ark* made its escape and lifted off! There was no "Tribulation Period" at all in the Flood account. No Pretribulation model by which to prove a Pretribulation Rapture of the Church.

Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood. Something happened. Did the animals go crazy. Did the sky go dark and thunder and lightning? Did the earth quake before the fountains of the deep broke up. We are not given that information. What we are told is that the eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, stopped after Noah entered the ark.

On the other hand, it is a model of the Postribulational Rapture of the Church.

There is no Post tribulation rapture of the Church. There is certainly a post tribulation rapture, but it's not the Church that is raptured. Those that are raptured immediately after the tribulation are singing the song of Moses. Those 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest after the tribulation

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Noah and his family escaped on the day judgment was poured out on and destroyed the wicked world. This is in fact the Postribulational model.

No. Noah is the pretribulation rapture model. If you are looking for the post tribulation rapture model it is the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

There are two raptures. One pretrib. One posttrib.

 

[The Light]

Genesis doesn't say he entered the ark 7 days prior. It shows he received the instruction. Let us analyze this.

Genesis 7:4-19

1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
5 And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

This is (not surprisingly) in agreement with the words of Christ. The focus is the day the flood came. That is the saleint day in view here. According to this, "the selfsame day" Noah entered the ark was expressly "after seven days." It was then "that the waters of the flood were upon the earth."

Oh. So the first thing God says is ......... the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark

Did Noah disobey and wait until the 7th day???????????? No..........

Genesis 7
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

So you can claim that Noah waited until the day of the flood to enter the ark, but it is in ERROR.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

It's hard to refute what it written. All you can do is deny the truth.

 

[Timtofly]

So, what started all this was the talk about what was a mystery in the OT and a mystery before Paul wrote about it. The mystery wasn't us being gathered to meet the Lord. The mystery is what Paul said it was and nothing more.

The mystery was having an abode in heaven. Don't you think that the OT redeemed were waiting for a resurrection to live forever on the earth? Don't you expect to live on earth after the Second Coming? Who is said to ever live physically in heaven? You don't even accept they have physical bodies in heaven. Why would those in the OT expect to have physical bodies in heaven, if you don't expect that 2,000 years after the Cross? Paradise in heaven was a mystery, and Paul described it this way:

"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Other than having a tree of life, we know next to nothing about Paradise. Would that not be considered a mystery? You don't even think the church will be in Paradise for a thousand years after the Second Coming.

Certainly all they knew was the soul went to sheol, and not even Paradise, until the same last day resurrection you talk about. Except once the NT was written, we saw the last day of the OT was the Cross, not the Second Coming. There was a physical bodily resurrection, which you deny was permanent, but they all had to experience the horrible experience of death over again to enter Paradise. You deny a physical bodily ascension with Jesus on Sunday morning, because you deny they currently have physical bodies. It is still a mystery to you, because you still have the OT mindset, when it comes to 2 Corinthians 5:1

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

Part of that mystery involved the hold on an earthly kingdom, until the fulness of the Gentiles is brought in. Then Jesus would return to deal directly with Israel, not the church, because the church would remain in Paradise until it descends as the New Jerusalem a thousand plus years later. You don't accept the Sabbath Day of the Lord after 6,000 years of sin and death. Once sin and decay is removed, the earth will live peacefully for this Day of the Lord reign of Christ on earth. Because He must reign until all the earth is subdued. As the Second Adam, this rule is on earth again full the earth with humanity without the effects of sin and the bondage of decay.

None of those from the OT Israel is coming back, as they are now the church in Paradise along with the NT redeemed since the Cross. While they may over see us from heaven, those on earth will be under the direct kingship of Jesus. That is what was promised in the OT. The church in Paradise including those of faith were looking for that heavenly city, but John says it will not come back until Jesus has reigned a thousand years.

 

[WPM]

Oh. So the first thing God says is ......... the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark

Did Noah disobey and wait until the 7th day???????????? No..........

Genesis 7
5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

So you can claim that Noah waited until the day of the flood to enter the ark, but it is in ERROR.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

It's hard to refute what it written. All you can do is deny the truth.

You may think he disobeyed, but i do not. I showed you the evidence in the OT and the NT. They both forbid your nonsensical argument.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is God that says they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood.

Well, WPM made a good point, and you may have missed it. Jesus said this:
Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

And Genesis says this:
Gen 7.11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month—on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

So what we have here is Jesus saying the worldly celebration ended on the day Noah entered the ark, at which time the Flood came and destroyed them all. And in Genesis it is said that on the day Noah and his family entered the ark, on the 17th day of the 2nd month, the Flood began.

So if you say that Noah entered the ark, and the Flood did not come for another seven days, we seem to have a contradiction. We are told that the Flood came on the day Noah entered the ark. And yet there is this 7 day period before the Flood began. How do we reconcile that? It may be that the passage indicates God is giving Noah 7 days to enter the ark, indicating that there was a week long process required to do so.

Gen 7.6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.

Obviously, entering into the ark with all of those animals was an extended process, even if God guided the animals to the ark...

Gen 7.The Lord then said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.”

I don't think there is much question in my mind, though--it was the day Noah entered into the ark, and the door was shut, that the Flood began--not 7 days later. Some people believe that all of the animals of the world entered into the ark. I believe a representative sample of animals from the area entered in to display God's grace towards the earth. It was not an impossible task, but it would certainly require a week!

So I don't think you're correct to say that Noah entered the ark and waited 7 days. I think he probably spent the week getting all of the animals on board.

But you're trying to compare this Flood event with a supposed Pretribulation Rapture of the Church. How is Noah's escape from the Flood an escape from a Tribulation Period? The day Noah escaped the world was destroyed!

Come on. The verses are talking the world eating and drinking, not Noah.

I didn't know if you were talking the Wedding Supper of the Lamb or the partying in the world in Noah's time? Either way, the partying ended the day Noah was shut in on the ark. The escape was simultaneous with the end of the world. No Tribulation Period!

Tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same thing.

Noah was shut in the ark 6 days before the flood. Something happened. Did the animals go crazy. Did the sky go dark and thunder and lightning? Did the earth quake before the fountains of the deep broke up. We are not given that information. What we are told is that the eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, stopped after Noah entered the ark.

This seems rather silly to me. You are trying to say "something happened?" "Did the animals go crazy?" What are you trying to prove, that something that is not mentioned is somehow a symbol of a Tribulation that follows Noah entering into the ark and being there for 7 days?

There is no Post tribulation rapture of the Church. There is certainly a post tribulation rapture, but it's not the Church that is raptured. Those that are raptured immediately after the tribulation are singing the song of Moses. Those 144,000 are the first fruits of the harvest after the tribulation

You're using another difficult prophecy to try to prove your present claim that the Flood indicates a Pretribulation Rapture. That's why I insist on explicit biblical statements before we can call it "Biblical Doctrine." You are inventing your own ideas based on speculation about vague passages and symbolic visions. Not reliable. In fact, it's illegitimate. You're entitled to believe in a Flat Earth, but you're not entitled to create doctrine out of vague passages and speculations without explicit statements.

There are two raptures. One pretrib. One posttrib.

Your comparison between the Flood and a Pretribulation Rapture leaves me unconvinced. Particularly of concern is the fact you have no biblical statement indicating that. Therefore, it is an illegitimate claim.

 

[The Light]

I guess I wasn't wrong after all... or was I? ;) It appears both things are true, that Noah entered the ark 7 days before the Flood started, but must have stepped out again, only to step back in on the same day it started to rain?? That's the only thing I can figure out. But thanks for your contribution on this matter!

Noah was told to enter the ark with his family and all the animals. He did as God told him.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Luke 17.27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

This was the "last supper" for the wicked world on that very day! There was no "tribulation period" to escape from. Escaping from the world judgment of that day is precisely what Postribulationism says.

Noah entered the ark with his family and all the animals and was shut in by God. He did not go out again. That is not in the text.

I think the account in Genesis is a little ambiguous about the order of events. It does sound as if Noah entered the ark 7 days prior to the Flood, but then in the same account we are told that Noah entered the ark the *same day* that the Flood began.

We are not told Noah entered the ark the same day the flood began. We are told on the same day, Noah, his family and ALL the animals entered the ark. That day was the day he was told to enter the ark...........not seven days later.

Genesis 7
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

So maybe we're just reading it wrong thinking that Noah didn't enter the ark on the day the Flood began?

Noah did not enter the ark the day the flood began. On the selfsame day they all entered as instructed and that was the 1st, not the 7th

Gen 7.12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

Jesus said it was the same day as the Flood that Noah entered the ark, and I'll go with his interpretation.

No. Thats what you are incorrectly concluding. They all entered the ark on the selfsame day. Not the day of the flood as they were told to enter the ark on the first day.