The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[WPM]

The problem is never about providing the proof, the problem is getting you to understand the proof. Here is the proof.

Genesis 7
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

5 And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Not at all. This text does not say what you want it to say. Jesus and the New Testament remove any ambiguity on the subject. He shows that the day Noah went into the ark the flood came and all the wicked were destroyed. That is what is going to happen when Jesus comes.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

Jesus words support my position and damn your doctrine. They show what that "self-same day" was - "the day" of destruction, thus the 7th day. Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wholesale wiped out.

Pretribbers consistently try to explain away the clear and explicit New Testament narrative to support their faulty opinion of the vaguer Old Testament narrative. They invent obscure extra-biblical theories to reinforces their beliefs. They have to!

The reason why Pretribbers insist on such obscure theories is because they do not have any biblical support in either the Old or the New Testament. There is no where in scripture that teaches (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ.

Anyway, what has seven days notice anything to do with a supposed future seven-year tribulation? Nothing! That is how nonsensical Pretrib is.

 

[Davy]

That could be so. But it seemed to be a rapture of sorts at least loosely speaking. Was Enoch & Elijah raptured? was Jesus raptured after His resurrection? I have to say yes to all of those!

In Revelation 12:13-17, the serpent casts 'water as a flood' after the symbolic "woman" which represents Christ's Church at the end, because they have the Testimony of Jesus Christ per verse 17. So Jesus correlated the flood of Noah's day to point to the "great tribulation" at the end of this world.

Rev 12:13-17
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

That in red represents the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 "one week", the final 70th week of Dan.9. That is when the "great tribulation" is to take place which begins with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem at the end. The "woman" is PROTECTED, not fleeing to heaven.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

That is where Christ uses the flood of Noah's day as an analogy to the serpent (Satan) casting waters AS a flood out of his mouth after the "woman".

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Just as the waters of Noah's flood began receding after the ark had been on top of the waters for 150 days, that verse is also a correlation for the end time tribulation with the symbolic "woman" going through it, but under God's protection.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

Those who have the Testimony of Jesus Christ always refers to Christ's Church.

 

[Timtofly]

Yea, definitely agree that basing a major doctrine on sketchy evidence is a bad idea. This goes back to why I always ask for *explicit biblical statements* in doctrinal matters, because God anticipates our questions and gives us what we need to know and need to believe in explicit form.

Thank you. Agree 100%, and don't know why anybody would disagree with that, unless they have a preconceived agenda, which is what the Pretrib Rapture theory is. There is zero explicit doctrine about the Church being in heaven now or before the rise of Antichrist. If there is anybody there now it would be departed saints, and there would certainly be more than 24 elders among them!

No matter what your theology is, the scene of the heavenly throne in Rev 4-5 is a vision with the entire focus on the fact Christ atoned for our sins and enabled the fulfillment of history in our favor. All of the rest appears to be background, and we shouldn't base our eschatology on that!

Crowns (plural). It says they have crowns of gold. What we are said to receive when Jesus comes is what James called "the crown of life". Where does it say that the elders have the crown of life?

You all are inconsistent then.

You say the 144k has to represent the church, but the elders cannot represent the church. You say the 144k cannot be actual individuals, but the 24 can be individuals, but not humans.

Paul said we are seated with Christ, and way back in the first century, not some future realization. The point being these seated on thrones around the throne of God, have already receive a reward as they are wearing that reward as a crown. No one is born with a crown on their head. Now they could have been rewarded when they arrived , which means they already had a physical body, and received a physical reward.

But you all claim that cannot happen until the rapture and Second Coming. Which is the point. If they have received their reward and sit as elders, then the reward was already given. The rapture Second Coming has happened and the church has received her reward, for things done on the earth. It does not matter what crowns, all will not have the same crown. All may not even have their own throne. Personally I think these represent 12 special elders from the OT and 12 from the NT. That is all the Covenants that have been made, no?

So all the terms you associate with "Christians" in the book of Revelation, you are just going to overlook the term "elder" and invent some other type of entity that has been rewarded and can sit in judgment?

The church has been in heaven since the Cross. The majority has always been there each generation. Those on earth are just ambassadors at any given decade. The earth is not the gathering kingdom of heaven. The kingdom is being called out of the earth and assembled in Paradise. That is the definition of the church, no?

All you post trib people may have only 2 of you left on the earth, by the time you all are ready to leave, and then that may be dead bodies. So no one left alive and remain. Paul thought he would be alive at the rapture, so do you think you all are better than Paul? Will you be following the armies to Armageddon, to see how it turns out? Or hiding out on the other side of the earth, while the meeting in the air is above Israel?

You may be trying to apply your doctrine to future generations, and think you will not even be around, who knows? Like Paul, many are waiting to be part of those alive and remain, and that is why it is called imminent, even if it never happens in our lifetime.

 

[Davy]

One of the false teachings by many preachers today, especially the pre-trib rapture preachers, is that the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world is going to be a time of all out chaos and WWIII, etc.

That is NOT what God's Word teaches.

Revelation 13:4-8 reveals that the whole... world (except Christ's elect) will worship the "dragon" (Satan). That means they will be DECEIVED into false worship by the coming Antichrist. Will the coming Antichrist do war upon his own that are deceived into worshiping him? Of course not.

That is how the coming "great tribulation" will manifest upon the DECEIVED. They will be tricked into worship of the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah thinking he is God. And that's for the WHOLE WORLD, excepting Christ's elect. That false-Messiah if you worship and bow to him in place of Christ will pay off all your debts, provide for your every need, treat you real good.

But for Christ's elect, as written in Christ's Olivet discourse, those of us who refuse to bow to that coming Antichrist/false-Messiah will be hated by the whole world. And Jesus forewarned that we would be delivered up to give a Testimony for Him by The Holy Spirit, and to not fear even if it is to the death.

Thus the modern materialistic comforts of the end is designed to help sway the DECEIVED who simply will sell their soul in order to keep their creature comforts instead of bearing their cross for Jesus Christ in waiting for His coming later.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You all are inconsistent then.

You say the 144k has to represent the church, but the elders cannot represent the church. You say the 144k cannot be actual individuals, but the 24 can be individuals, but not humans.

Interpreting different passages differently is not an inconsistency. Each passage must be interpreted based on its own context.

Paul said we are seated with Christ, and way back in the first century, not some future realization. The point being these seated on thrones around the throne of God, have already receive a reward as they are wearing that reward as a crown. No one is born with a crown on their head. Now they could have been rewarded when they arrived , which means they already had a physical body, and received a physical reward.

Being seated with Christ is a legal statement by Paul, not indicating we are literally there with Christ, seated in heaven, but rather, being represented by him there in heaven before God. We do not wear crowns until our immortalization, or glorification. Dying does not achieve this. Living for Christ does not achieve this. The crowns come as apart of the glorification event, when we obtain immortal bodies.

So all the terms you associate with "Christians" in the book of Revelation, you are just going to overlook the term "elder" and invent some other type of entity that has been rewarded and can sit in judgment?

No, the scene in heaven compares with the scene in heaven viewed by Isaiah in ch. 6, where God is on His throne accompanied by angels. Nowhere in Rev 4-5 are we told these "elders" represent the glorified, crowned Church! You are the one making that determination, against the evidence I've presented here. The Church is not yet glorified, and is not yet in heaven receiving glorified bodies. When Christ comes again, we will instantly be transformed to return with him in the same instant. The Kingdom of God will be on the earth, and not in heaven.

The church has been in heaven since the Cross. The majority has always been there each generation. Those on earth are just ambassadors at any given decade. The earth is not the gathering kingdom of heaven. The kingdom is being called out of the earth and assembled in Paradise. That is the definition of the church, no?

The departed saints are apparently in heaven already, but that doesn't mean this is the promised Kingdom of God, which I believe will be on earth.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Suit yourself. You are just arguing that you are right--not arguing what the Scripture says. You completely *ignored my arguments.* You are just arguing that I cannot bear to embrace your overwhelmingly convincing arguments. What a joke!

Again, if you wish to debate at all, you must respond to the arguments. Paul said that Jesus will only come when he comes *from heaven,* and when he comes to *destroy the Antichrist.* Any preliminary coming for his Church is false.

I proved that, and you ignored that. Your arguments, completely ignoring this, are therefore not overwhelming, and are not convincing, and to me are not biblical. But apparently, you just want to claim your arguments are overwhelmingly convincing, without addressing the apparent inconsistencies? That's your choice.

My only claim is that revealed only means revealed.
When was Obama revealed?
Before or after he took power?
I know...you can not address it.
It is a no brainer,and it is so easy to see.
The ac revealed is , a pretrib rapture concept.

 

[rebuilder 454]

One of the false teachings by many preachers today, especially the pre-trib rapture preachers, is that the coming time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world is going to be a time of all out chaos and WWIII, etc.

That is NOT what God's Word teaches.

Revelation 13:4-8 reveals that the whole... world (except Christ's elect) will worship the "dragon" (Satan). That means they will be DECEIVED into false worship by the coming Antichrist. Will the coming Antichrist do war upon his own that are deceived into worshiping him? Of course not.

That is how the coming "great tribulation" will manifest upon the DECEIVED. They will be tricked into worship of the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah thinking he is God. And that's for the WHOLE WORLD, excepting Christ's elect. That false-Messiah if you worship and bow to him in place of Christ will pay off all your debts, provide for your every need, treat you real good.

But for Christ's elect, as written in Christ's Olivet discourse, those of us who refuse to bow to that coming Antichrist/false-Messiah will be hated by the whole world. And Jesus forewarned that we would be delivered up to give a Testimony for Him by The Holy Spirit, and to not fear even if it is to the death.

Thus the modern materialistic comforts of the end is designed to help sway the DECEIVED who simply will sell their soul in order to keep their creature comforts instead of bearing their cross for Jesus Christ in waiting for His coming later.

If they martyr all refusing the mark, ( yes indeed according to the word) then a chaotic or orderly removal of all believers is kinda a moot point.

 

[WPM]

My only claim is that revealed only means revealed.
When was Obama revealed?
Before or after he took power?
I know...you can not address it.
It is a no brainer,and it is so easy to see.
The ac revealed is , a pretrib rapture concept.

What does this prove? Please answer a simple question that no Pretrib can seem to answer: where in Scripture teaches (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are two raptures.

1 Thes 4:14-17 The Lord Himself comes for the Church.
1 Cor 15:51-52 Is the second rapture. He sends His angels, seen here

Matthew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This rapture occurs at the sixth seal and is also seen in Rev 14

This is a baseless claim. It seems that your entire reasoning for seeing those as referring to two different raptures is because one mentions angels and one doesn't. Do you understand how ridiculous it is to make a man-made rule like that which says that two passages can't be referring to the same event unless they contain all the same details? No wonder you believe in 5 raptures (I think...is that correct?). You apparently don't think any event is ever referred to more than once in scripture.

 

[Davy]

If they martyr all refusing the mark, ( yes indeed according to the word) then a chaotic or orderly removal of all believers is kinda a moot point.

Irrelevant, since Jesus never said all that refuse the mark of the beast and are delivered up will actually be harmed.

Luke 21:12-18
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
KJV

 

[Timtofly]

Then He changes subjects in verse 15 and starts talking about things related to their question about the timing of the destruction of the temple buildings. I believe that goes until verse 22. The parallel passage of Luke 21:20-24 shows that He was talking about something that would happen only in Judea and Jerusalem.

So you are not post trib then? You are post 70AD, a second coming will happen? Obviously we are post 70AD, and still waiting for the Second Coming.

You are not even arguing on the same topic. No one is arguing a pre-70AD rapture.

Why do you think the fig tree blooming, the greatest time of trouble, the appearing of Jesus Christ, and some abomination of desolation can only apply to 70AD? That would be verses 15 all the way to 34:

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus is pointing to the lifetime of one generation. Luke 21 is a different application.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

The qualifier "these things" is missing. According to Bible hub the word is missing in Luke and found in Matthew. Luke was Jesus addressing those in the Temple prior to leaving, for the Mount of Olives. Matthew is Jesus talking personally to His disciples on the Mount of Olives. Luke is the historical account including 70AD that goes all the way to the Second Coming. This inludes the time of the Gentiles, referred to by Paul as the fulness of the Gentiles. But all things would be fulfilled by that last generation.

Matthew is saying a single generation will see verses 15 to 34, not live for thousands of years. Because verse 14 is the historical account until the end, and verse 15 is describing events that happen at the very end, not during all of history.

Those who try to combine both accounts are missing who the targeted audience is. Just because words are similar does not mean Jesus is applying the same interpretation to both audiences. Even the layout could be similar, but the words change.

In Luke all will have been fulfilled over many lifetimes, relating to Jacob. In Matthew a single generation will witness certain events, including a remnant of Jacob restored. Many who heard Jesus in the temple were already dead 40 years later. Jesus was not saying a single generation would live past 70AD. Paul was not even alive in 70AD. The Second Coming did not happen in 70AD. There will still be a last generation alive at the Second Coming, obviously, but they did not see all things, but all things had been fulfilled. All things including 70AD and the Second Coming, which obviously was not one single generation.

There is no verse in Scripture that explicitly states the Second Coming has to happen on a very last day, any more than a verse explicitly stating when a rapture will happen. You infer the former, but deny the latter for some reason.

 

[WPM]

This is a baseless claim. It seems that your entire reasoning for seeing those as referring to two different raptures is because one mentions angels and one doesn't. Do you understand how ridiculous it is to make a man-made rule like that which says that two passages can't be referring to the same event unless they contain all the same details? No wonder you believe in 5 raptures (I think...is that correct?). You apparently don't think any event is ever referred to more than once in scripture.

How can anyone believe a doctrine that enjoys not one single clear proof text? Look on this thread how each Pretribber depends upon obscure theories and unfounded speculations from some Pretrib teacher who has doubtless indoctrinated them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

QUOTE.."I believe He talks about things related to His second coming from Matthew 24:23 to the end of the discourse in Matthew 25:46. I don't see any change of subject in verse 36. I believe the gathering of the elect mentioned in verse 31 is a reference to the rapture and by reading Matthew 24:29-31 you can easily see that will occur "after the tribulation of those days". There is no reference to a pre-trib rapture anywhere in the Olivet Discourse."
You left out the entire dialog of what you are "answering"
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
ONLY the pretrib rapture fits all that.
That is your method?
Leave out the verses and ...pooooof !...your doctrine lives!!!!

Are you a child? You sure talk like one. There is no pretrib rapture described there. That passage is about the coming of the Son of Man. When did Jesus say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

For you to think that Jesus taught a pre-trib rapture is as ludicrous as it gets. He came nowhere near teaching that nonsense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you are not post trib then? You are post 70AD, a second coming will happen? Obviously we are post 70AD, and still waiting for the Second Coming.

LOL. Why do you talk here at all? You can't understand anything anyone says. Yes, I am post-trib, but my understanding of the tribulation is different than yours. There was tribulation around 70 AD, but that isn't the tribulation that I believe Jesus returns right after. Jesus spoke of global tribulation (unlike Matthew 24:15-21, which is only local tribulation and is God's wrath) related to a high level of deception and an increase in wickedness that would occur just before His second coming (Matthew 24:10-12;23-26). As long as you continue to ignore that He spoke of two different events because of being asked two different questions, you are just not going to get it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Not at all. This text does not say what you want it to say. Jesus and the New Testament remove any ambiguity on the subject. He shows that the day Noah went into the ark the flood came and all the wicked were destroyed. That is what is going to happen when Jesus comes.

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

Jesus words support my position and damn your doctrine. They show what that "self-same day" was - "the day" of destruction, thus the 7th day. Christ speaks of “the days of Noe” (plural), speaking of the days that preceded the destruction of all the wicked. He then spoke of “the day” (singular), speaking of the actual day when the wicked were wholesale wiped out.

Pretribbers consistently try to explain away the clear and explicit New Testament narrative to support their faulty opinion of the vaguer Old Testament narrative. They invent obscure extra-biblical theories to reinforces their beliefs. They have to!

The reason why Pretribbers insist on such obscure theories is because they do not have any biblical support in either the Old or the New Testament. There is no where in scripture that teaches (1) a rapture of the Church, (2) immediately followed by a literal seven-year tribulation, (3) immediately followed by a further coming of Christ.

Anyway, what has seven days notice anything to do with a supposed future seven year tribulation? Nothing! That is how weak Pretrib is.

There are 2 distinct and separate comings in mat 24
There are 2 distinct gatherings in rev14. (Actually 3).
MAtt 25 has the groom gathering the bride.
Rev has the warrior general Jesus leading His already gathered to heaven saints BACK TO earth as a conquering King.

maybe try to factor in some facts before trying to make all that into Rev 19.

Pretribbers usually do not omit components.
Postribbers can not possibly keep our verses on the table.
I am amazed at their torturing of the virgins parable. Not a single one can keep all the components of that parable intact.
Way too vivid of a depiction of the pretrib rapture doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can anyone believe a doctrine that enjoys not one single clear proof text? Look on this thread how each Pretribber depends upon obscure theories and unfounded speculations some Pretrib teacher has doubtless taught them.

I don't know how that can be. I think it's just a case of people being attracted to sensationalized theories involving a big bad Antichrist and millions of people disappearing and leaving their unsaved loved ones behind to experience tribulation for 7 years and nonsense like that. They have absolutely zero clear scriptures to point to that support their view. Absolutely none. Which is why, when they explain their views, it's completely convoluted. And there's no agreement amongst them other than the rapture being pre-trib. They all have their own wacky theories on how everything will play out after that and leading up to that. Pre-trib is based on just a random bunch of unrelated scriptures that they try to force to relate to each other.

 

[Davy]

There is no verse in Scripture that explicitly states the Second Coming has to happen on a very last day, any more than a verse explicitly stating when a rapture will happen. You infer the former, but deny the latter for some reason.

That reveals how you do not study your Bible, but rely on what men tell you to think instead, because God's Word DOES reveal the gathering of the Church to Jesus will... happen on the last day of this world:

1 Thess 4:14-16
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

John 6:40
40 And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you a child? You sure talk like one. There is no pretrib rapture described there. That passage is about the coming of the Son o Man. When did Jesus say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

For you to think that Jesus taught a pre-trib rapture is as ludicrous as it gets. He came nowhere near teaching that nonsense.

Well Jr, I am far from a child, but your tactics are weak, as you are demonstrating by going personal.
I suppose your doctrine has skipped over "before the flood" for so long,it totally has become invisible.
That may be a good starting place since it is so vivid.

Psssst...your doctrine has The rapture AFTER THE FLOOD.
SMH

 

[rebuilder 454]

Are you a child? You sure talk like one. There is no pretrib rapture described there. That passage is about the coming of the Son o Man. When did Jesus say that would happen?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

For you to think that Jesus taught a pre-trib rapture is as ludicrous as it gets. He came nowhere near teaching that nonsense.

Unpack mat 25, the gathering of the bride.
I will wait.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I don't know how that can be. I think it's just a case of people being attracted to sensationalized theories involving a big bad Antichrist and millions of people disappearing and leaving their unsaved loved ones behind to experience tribulation for 7 years and nonsense like that. They have absolutely zero clear scriptures to point to that support their view. Absolutely none. Which is why, when they explain their views, it's completely convoluted. And there's no agreement amongst them other than the rapture being pre-trib. They all have their own wacky theories on how everything will play out after that and leading up to that. Pre-trib is based on just a random bunch of unrelated scriptures that they try to force to relate to each other.

Word salad.
Nothing of your post true.