The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[MA2444]

Now why would you flat tell a lie like that? you have yet to walk anyone... through Bible Scripture that proves the false pre-trib rapture theory. Nor can you, without first 'changing' what the Scriptures actually teach, as written.

There is NO Bible Scripture that supports a gathering of the Church prior to the "great tribulation". And that is what you 'must' have in order to prove a pre-trib rapture. So please don't damage your soul with telling lies that you can prove it by Bible Scripture when you well know you cannot.

There is a lot of scriptures about it and I do have them. But it is quite involved and there is a lot of scripture and jumping around to supporting scriptures, but you've already said that you dont even care to read our viewpoints position on the matter or even to consider it, so can you tell me why I should even bother typing a lot of things that you wont even read? Bwahahahaha, that's a good one!

Nevertheless, since you have already refused to get into the nitty gritty of it, I'll speak to you on your level and leave you with this to consider...

You seem to speak of a pre trib rapture viewpoint as some sort of lie and therefore dangerous in some way. But I don't get it. In what way is it dangerous or detrimental to anyone to start watching sooner than another? Tell me that.

Because essentially what I can see is that we have two Brides waiting to be picked up for the wedding. One is so excited that she is always looking out the window for her Love to come into view. The other doesnt think he will be here that soon so she is not watching, prolly out with her friends clubbing instead of preparing to get ready. So when the groom finally shows up (doesnt matter if he comes pre or post trib) what will he find? One is ready and so ready that she has been looking out the window for him for a long time now, and the other is passed out drunk from partying. Would you marry the girl who wasnt ready? Would you marry the one who was so excited about getting married to him that she's been ready and has been watching. Even if the groom is late and comes post trib which bride is going to be more desireable to him?

When I first asked the girl that I married if she would marry me, she got excited and said yes she will. But if she had said to me, wellll, I do want to get married with you, but not right now. There's things that I want to do first. I want to go to Europe and to Hawaii and date around a little first and we can get married later...would I have married her? No I would not have married her. Period. How about you?

Where is the danger in believing in a pre trib rapture?

 

[Davy]

There is a lot of scriptures about it and I do have them.

Nah, not so fast. Show Scripture proof that the pre-trib rapture is written in God's Word. I challenge you.

 

[MA2444]

OK, you're going to have to show me some historical evidence for this. Whether you think the groom's father announced the date a day before, a week before, or a month before the wedding date doesn't matter to me -- I'm just looking for ANYTHING which supports your statement that the groom's father kept the date he had decided on secret until closer to the wedding day.

I have the evidence about it but you will have to be open minded enough to consider it honestly before outright rejecting it. Make sense?

It really is fashioned like an old time Hebrew wedding ceremony. First there is a Betrohal in which the prospective groom comes to the bride and offers her a cup of betrohal wine and if she accepts it and drinks it, then the groom leaves...to go to his Fathers house to prepare a place for her. He will add a new room to that house or build a seperate house on the same land and furnish it and get it all ready for her to come home to. This rocess usually lasted about a full year, and you know how things go, things come up here and there and so neither of them know exactly when he will be finished with her place and then come for her. But for all intents and purposes, she is already his wife or fiance at that point so everyone leave her alone and dont ask her out!

So the groom leaves finally to go get his bride and he usually arrives in the night time, so she was supposed to be ready and watching and have oil in her lamp already. As the wedding procession draws close they give a shout to announce their arrival for her and she goes to meet him and he takes her home to the place that he has prepred for her.

When they get to the place ther is a great banquet and the ceremony and then then they go into their new place (chamber) for 7 days and dont come out until after 7 days.

Now we reate this to the rapture because all of the signs are there in scripture which Jesus spoke of.
Jesus said, I must leave you now, I go to prepare a place for you...(John 14:3)
Jesus said, when I return I wall come unexpectedly, as a thief in the night...(Matthew 24:42-44 Luke 12:40)
Jesus said go into your chambers and hide yourself=ves for a ittle while until the indignation is past (Isaiah 26:20) [This is the 7 days in the chamber, and propetical days are counted for years, 7 or the Tribulation period. We wont be here for that]
Jesus said, because we were ready and persevered to keep watch that we will not go through the time of testing that is to come upon the world (Revelation 3:10-13)
Jesus said, we are not appointed to His wrath but to salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

So the Tribulation period and the Great Tribulation is not for the Bride of Christ, but for the the unbelievers! Israel and the Jews and the rest of the Gentiles. The bride is set apart.

Is this enough for now? I have more. But it can clearly be seen the similarities between how Jesus spoke of the rapture & the Bride and the ancient wedding customs. Why would God change now? He doesn't, that's how He does it. And if you stare at it long enough and ponder it long enough you can see this also. It seems very clear to me now.

 

[MA2444]

Nah, not so fast. Show Scripture proof that the pre-trib rapture is written in God's Word. I challenge you.

Look Brother. You already said that you wont even take the time to consider anything except wat you have already chosen to believe. So what value is to be gained in even responding to you? You're not worth the effort with your arogant self. You dont have to believe me. Go embrace your arrogance and let the less arrogant people have a discussion.

Have a nice day!

 

[RedFan]

I have the evidence about it but you will have to be open minded enough to consider it honestly before outright rejecting it. Make sense?

It really is fashioned like an old time Hebrew wedding ceremony. First there is a Betrohal in which the prospective groom comes to the bride and offers her a cup of betrohal wine and if she accepts it and drinks it, then the groom leaves...to go to his Fathers house to prepare a place for her. He will add a new room to that house or build a seperate house on the same land and furnish it and get it all ready for her to come home to. This rocess usually lasted about a full year, and you know how things go, things come up here and there and so neither of them know exactly when he will be finished with her place and then come for her. But for all intents and purposes, she is already his wife or fiance at that point so everyone leave her alone and dont ask her out!

So the groom leaves finally to go get his bride and he usually arrives in the night time, so she was supposed to be ready and watching and have oil in her lamp already. As the wedding procession draws close they give a shout to announce their arrival for her and she goes to meet him and he takes her home to the place that he has prepred for her.

When they get to the place ther is a great banquet and the ceremony and then then they go into their new place (chamber) for 7 days and dont come out until after 7 days.

Now we reate this to the rapture because all of the signs are there in scripture which Jesus spoke of.
Jesus said, I must leave you now, I go to prepare a place for you...(John 14:3)
Jesus said, when I return I wall come unexpectedly, as a thief in the night...(Matthew 24:42-44 Luke 12:40)
Jesus said go into your chambers and hide yourself=ves for a ittle while until the indignation is past (Isaiah 26:20) [This is the 7 days in the chamber, and propetical days are counted for years, 7 or the Tribulation period. We wont be here for that]
Jesus said, because we were ready and persevered to keep watch that we will not go through the time of testing that is to come upon the world (Revelation 3:10-13)
Jesus said, we are not appointed to His wrath but to salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

So the Tribulation period and the Great Tribulation is not for the Bride of Christ, but for the the unbelievers! Israel and the Jews and the rest of the Gentiles. The bride is set apart.

Is this enough for now? I have more. But it can clearly be seen the similarities between how Jesus spoke of the rapture & the Bride and the ancient wedding customs. Why would God change now? He doesn't, that's how He does it. And if you stare at it long enough and ponder it long enough you can see this also. It seems very clear to me now.

You aren't answering me. You have set forth a dozen or more alleged marriage customs of that era, and associated a rapture-related Scripture passage with each of them. Fine. And I challenged only ONE of those alleged customs. I think there is zero historical evidence for it, and I am asking you to furnish some for me. That's all. Can you do this for me?

 

[MA2444]

You aren't answering me. You have set forth a dozen or more alleged marriage customs of that era, and associated a rapture-related Scripture passage with each of them. Fine. And I challenged only ONE of those alleged customs. I think there is zero historical evidence for it, and I am asking you to furnish some for me. That's all. Can you do this for me?

Oh you mean about not knowing the exact hour of when the rapture happens only the father?

Neither the bride nor groom knew the exact day when the wedding would take place. No one knew except the groom’s father.

OK, you're going to have to show me some historical evidence for this. Whether you think the groom's father announced the date a day before, a week before, or a month before the wedding date doesn't matter to me -- I'm just looking for ANYTHING which supports your statement that the groom's father kept the date he had decided on secret until closer to the wedding day..../

This. Ok, sorry.
Matthew 24:36
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only..../KJV

And you want historical evidence for this truth? I don't think I have historical truth, Like what, Archeologigal evidence? I thought we were trying to understand the scriptures about the rapture timing? If the rapture hasnt happened yet (and I believe we all agree that it has not yet.) hen how can historical evidence even be avaiilable for it yet?

Nevertheless, I can tell you what I think, I have thought about this. If Jesus is God and He is all knowing, then why doesn't He know when the rapture is? Now, Jesus did say He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, so this implies that maybe even the Father doesnt know the exact date yet, right? Ok. How could that even be? He is Omniscient! The only reasonable answer that I am able to come up with as a conjecture is that...the Father doesn't yet know the exact day of the Rapture...because he is keeping his options open and has decided to decide on the spur of the moment? There will come a time when the Father says, I've seen enough, go do it. And boom, it happens.

Have you ever put off making a big decision until the last minute on purpose, to, see how it goes...? I have. And if I can do it then who says God can't do it?! But for that part I have no historica evidence for or even scripture, but it's the only thing I can think of that makes sense of it. (If I got your question right that is, lol)

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think your error is to state,true biblical doctrine is spelled out not hinted at....

Yea, it is really "error" to believe the Bible? ;) You won't catch me believing that one! If you want to read into Scriptures what you wish to believe, power to you...

Yeshua, his name was not actually Jesus,and maybe the reason the world has fallen into its current dilemma is because for over 2000 years believers have called on the wrong name...

How incredibly silly! How someone pronounces a name makes a difference? Would you exclude lispers from the Kingdom of God? Would you expel from God's Kingdom those who speak a different language than you?

, told his Disciples the reason he taught in parables was so that not all would understand and be redeemed. His Disciples understood because as Yeshua said,it was given them to understand.

People don't understand because they don't wish to believe the right narrative, even when it is plainly told them. People didn't get parables not because they were too complex to understand, but rather, because they were so simple, and so explicit, that they did understand and wanted to read something else into the story that they preferred to believe.

 

[MA2444]

You aren't answering me. You have set forth a dozen or more alleged marriage customs of that era, and associated a rapture-related Scripture passage with each of them. Fine. And I challenged only ONE of those alleged customs. I think there is zero historical evidence for it, and I am asking you to furnish some for me. That's all. Can you do this for me?

Alleged marriage customs? So are you asking for historical writings which chart out all of the old time marriage customs? What is my source for this information? Isn't that the scriptures though? The book of truth?

The truth is in the details of the text. The difficulty arises when...well, I don't know greek or hebrew. I'm from Columbus Ohio. I dunno how they did it in the middle east 2000 years ago. ow honestly, that doesn't make it an alleged thing, it makes it a thing to be understood. Ok so I wasnt rasied there so dont really know the customs or speech dialects or the idiosyncracies of their languge back then, and if I want to understand it then I will have to delve deeper into it and learn, not what is alleged, but what is previously unknown to me. There are ertainly othe historical writings about Jewish customs and so forth but I can't really refrence those because I havent gone that deeply into it yet. So so far I am merely going by what I have read in scriptures and also I have heard a few good teachers from people who do know the language and customs because the have a degree in t or whatever. I have to cheat and use Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible because I did not go to Seminary! That interactive concordance is a wonderful tool for spotting and confirming truths in scritpure that were previously misunderstood! (And the Lord said, Behold I show you a Mystery! Lol!)
And we can see more in these last days just like scripture says, that knowledge will be increased! Can't you see it happening all around you? People are waking up! (And going insane) but the point is, if we wasnt born there but want to learn about how it was and is going to be(?) so it is easy to misread scripture for us. Scripture is Alleged right. do we understand it, so sometimes we glass over (a translation!) and maybe they didnt tranlate it the best way so when you go back to the original language and consider the other possible means of the word sometimes it can change the entire meaning of the passage by using a different definition for that word in it's original language. An example of this would be, remember when 4 Disciples came to Jesus and asked Him a few questions? Jesus gave then a private Briefing and answer all of their questions...so He talked Rapture, end times, 2nd coming Judgment, all that...and in the KJV translation it's easy for us to not catch it when Jesus changed subjects so for a long time I have missed that there was a change of subject in it cuz, I din' know the language and missed it. But Jesus changed subjects and talked of rapture and 2nd coming as two events, not one event.

In the Rapture there will be a Translation of Believers, in the 2nd coming no Translation is involved.
Rapture: Saints go to Heaven...2nd Coming: The Saints Return to Earth with Jesus.
Rapture: Earth is not Judged. ...2nd Coming: Earth is Judged.
Rapture: Is Imminent...2nd Coning is not Imminent.
Rapture Affects Believers only. 2nd coming Affects all men on earth.
Rapture is before the day of Wrath...2nd Coming Concludes the day of Wrath.
Rapture: He comes in the Air...2nd Coming: He comes to the Earth.
Rapture: Only the Saints will see Him...2nd Coming Every eye will see Him.
Rapture: He come for His Bride...2nd Coming: He comes With His Bride.

So even though I dont know the language and am sort of struggling through it, I think this may help to understand even though I have read the scriptures cover to cover (on my 5th time now) doesn't really even mean a whole lot, because each time I read it I see things that I missed before! New truth. And you know as well as I do that when you hear truth, it clicks inside of you and you know it is the truth.
That proves that the Holy Spirit is on the Job leading us into all truth, am I right?!

I dunno why, but it seems like most professing Christians are lucky if they pick up their Bible once a week. And that robs them of so much learning and truth. Because the more you read the scriptures the more (ephininys) you get. More truth each time. It gets so interesting that it's addictive, Lol! Just like everything else, ol.

I've been pondering the Rapture on & off, ever since Late Great Planet Earth came out Yes, I was a kid then, but I was a kid who loved to read books so I read it. I can remember thinking school wasnt teaching me anything so I skipped school to stay home and read a book of my own choosing because I still had that urge in me that this is the educational part of the day, so I figured read and learn something. I was a weird kid I guess! Lol. And I have been returned to the Lord since 9/22/09 when He saved my life and take it more serious than ever at this point. I wasn't listening to Him and the Lord chopped down everything I had and let me come to deaths door and that is what it took for me to sit up and say, Uh-Oh. I owe my Lord my life and this is serious.

And ever since then it's like life has been one continuous Blessing. Oh I still have plenty of tribulations, but I learned to let Him handle it, then it turns into a blessing. So you see, the more you read scripture prayerfully and study it, the time you give the Holy Spirit to give revelation to you as you read. He gives you a Rhema word. And you go, Ding! Ohhh...and you can feel it in the core of your being. That scripture spoke to you and you immediately applied to an aspect of your life somehow and, we all know when someone is speaking to us. Reading scripture is more addicitive than video games. You get saturated in it so when you walk through life into this or that scriptures pop up into your mind and you know which way you should walk through that situation! It's awesome! I have peace in my spirit finally about this rapture debate. It could be today, it's sorta cloudy out, I just checked again. (He wasnt up there yet).

I asked that one guy what is the potential danger to an alleged (lol) misled pretrib person? What danger does it pose as a Believer to be watching sooner than it happens?
He didnt answer that but I should have also asked him, what potential danger could it possibly be for a post trib postional Believer if (Big IF) he is wrong and so is not watching when it happens?

Wow, they could perhaps miss the rapture. It's worth it to delve in it deep enough for the truth and just like Scully & Mulder used to say, the truth is out there. But I think there is obviously less danger to holding a pretrib rapture position than a post trib postion because of the possibility of missing the rapture because the Lord decided I was a fence sitter or needed more time to develop my relationship with Him? Miss the rapture?! It says in scripture that it will be the worst time in the entire history of the world, who wants to go through that? I've had a hard enough life already, lol

Brother I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go all testimonia on you write this much and I do feel that time is short so sometimes I get to rambling. I have so many Trstimoies about supernatural tings that the Lord has done for me. I've had one audible conversation with Him, another time He sent an Angel which looked like a man to my garage sale to way over pay me for basically a bunch of house hold junk that she didnt take during the divorce! He talked himself up in price because I wasnt answering him when he offered an insane amount of money. I was waiting for the punch line! And he's like welll how about $1900 dollars for everything on that one table? and this is a garage salee (Tilt!!) I didnt know what to say to that. I knew it had to be a joke. Then he says, ok how about $2400? So I gave up, I wanted to hear the punch line so I said, ok that's fine....and the punch line was, he pulled out a huge stack of $100 dollar bills and counted me out 24 of them. That's the short version of that one, lol. After the Lord saved my life, I knew I owed Him my life and I found out a wonderful thing. I didnt know what else to do at the time other than pray to Him a lot and read that Bible so I started reading it again and I found out (it made sense) that if you actually do what the scriptures tell you, then you are a doer and will be rewarded for it both in this world and in the world to come. And I suppose that one side effect of being a Pre-Trib Believer is it rewuires you to be a doer and draw closer to the Lord and so you do it....and it didnt really even take very long. I put some heart into this, He saved my life! (That's a different Testimony). so the Lord suddenly began outright helping me here and there. He would give me little tests I figured out. And sometimes I fail the tests and sometimes I have passed the tests I tell you it feels good to pass a test! And all you have to do is exactly what the scripture tells you to do. And to get a good handle on it you could read them for a lifetime of study and not get it all. (I bet you we will still be studying the same book in the life to come! He said it wont pass away! It will be unlocked 100% for us.

I'll stop. Sorry.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Every rapture verse is peacetime Commerce and normal life.
There is no other position except the pre-trib rapture that fits.
We see in the "one taken one left", every one of those examples is peace time, normal life, and commerce.
We see the groom coming for the bride in the parable of the virgins, that setting is indeed, peace time ,Commerce ,and normal life.
We see in Acts chapter 1, the Angels tell the disciples "this same Jesus that you see going up into heaven shall return in like manner. "
Again peacetime, Commerce,and normal life is the setting.
We see in Matthew 24 where Jesus himself said before the flood, that his coming would be as that setting Before the Flood.
.. and what do we have ???? peacetime, Commerce ,and normal life.
That all by itself destroys every single position except the pre-trib rapture.
I don't know how you guys can wiggle around that

 

[rebuilder 454]

All the theologians, scripture scholars, bishops, saints and reformers were incapable of interpreting God's word....until....
...John Nelson Darby came along. He broke off from the Plymouth Brethren over theological disputes. Founder of the Exclusive Brethren sect, Darby invented pre-tribulation rapture theology in 1830 that was totally foreign to all of Christianity.

His theory was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. The footnotes were made doctrine by American dispensationists.

...fast forward to 1970...

The biggest-selling work of non-fiction (other than the Bible) since 1970 is dispensationalist Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth (Bantam, 1970), which sold more than 40 million copies and established the blueprint for a number of other popular, self-described “Bible prophecy” experts (including Tim LaHaye, creator and coauthor of the Left Behind series)

LaHaye’s first work of “Bible prophecy” was The Beginning of the End (Tyndale, 1972), essentially a carbon copy of Lindsey’s mega-seller. In the years that followed, Lindsey and LaHaye, along with authors such as Salem Kirban, David Wilkinson, Dave Hunt, Grant Jeffrey, John Walvoord, and others, produced a string of best-selling books warning of the rapidly approaching pretribulation Rapture, the Antichrist, and the tribulation.

One message of LaHaye’s that comes across clearly in books such as Are We Living in the End Times?, Rapture Under Attack, and Revelation Unveiled is that the Catholic Church is apostate, Catholicism is “Babylonian mysticism” and an “idolatrous religion,” and Catholics worship Mary, knowing little about the real Jesus Christ. It’s difficult to overstate the dislike — even hatred — LaHaye has for the Catholic Church or to exaggerate the ridiculous character of his attacks. He condemns the use of candles in Catholic churches, insists there’s hardly any difference between Hinduism and Catholicism, and emphatically declares that the Catholic Church killed at least 40 million people during the “dark ages.”

When I asked LaHaye, via e-mail, why he never refers to Catholic sources or official documents in his writings, he replied:

Because I think that for centuries the Catholic Church has presented church history in a manner protective of “Mother church.” . . . I have seen more concern on the part of your church for Hindus, Buddhists, and other pagan religions than they do [sic] for those who love Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible and are committed to making Him known to the lost so they will not be Left Behind.

In other words, the Catholic Church is simply wrong and doesn’t deserve a fair hearing. LaHaye has not only revealed himself to be an anti-Catholic polemicist but a theologian with a seriously skewed view of God’s salvific work. In a newspaper interview, LaHaye said, “We’ve [himself and Jenkins] created a series of books about the greatest cosmic event that will happen in the history of the world.” What is that “greatest cosmic event”? The Incarnation? The Cross? The Resurrection? No, the Rapture — a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.

The Rapture

Discover Catholic teachings on the Rapture. Pre, Mid, or Post? Find clarity on the 'end times'. Here's what the Church teaches about the apocalypse."

www.catholic.com

It's ironic; all this talk about "end time persecution" and/or "great tribulation" while guys like Lahaye inflict it on Catholics.

Pure rabbit trail.
Nothing to see here.
Pretrib rapture is the easiest doctrine to defend.
That is why you go outside the Bible to show us that everyone in Chicago learned to drive from the Navajo Indians because someone said so.
I can debate the pretrib rapture handily and while you are centered In newspaper articles and rabbit trails, I am centered in the bible.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Did you actually read what I wrote? No where did I claim the virgins are the bride of Christ. I mentioned it because it was the custom of the day and highlights that Jesus will come like a thief in the night.

They are definitely the bride of Christ.
Total no brainer.
The groom fetches her and takes her immediately into the marriage chamber.
5 worthy
5 not so worthy.
Half the church left to deal with the Antichrist.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Alleged marriage customs? So are you asking for historical writings which chart out all of the old time marriage customs? What is my source for this information? Isn't that the scriptures though? The book of truth?

The truth is in the details of the text. The difficulty arises when...well, I don't know greek or hebrew. I'm from Columbus Ohio. I dunno how they did it in the middle east 2000 years ago. ow honestly, that doesn't make it an alleged thing, it makes it a thing to be understood. Ok so I wasnt rasied there so dont really know the customs or speech dialects or the idiosyncracies of their languge back then, and if I want to understand it then I will have to delve deeper into it and learn, not what is alleged, but what is previously unknown to me. There are ertainly othe historical writings about Jewish customs and so forth but I can't really refrence those because I havent gone that deeply into it yet. So so far I am merely going by what I have read in scriptures and also I have heard a few good teachers from people who do know the language and customs because the have a degree in t or whatever. I have to cheat and use Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible because I did not go to Seminary! That interactive concordance is a wonderful tool for spotting and confirming truths in scritpure that were previously misunderstood! (And the Lord said, Behold I show you a Mystery! Lol!)
And we can see more in these last days just like scripture says, that knowledge will be increased! Can't you see it happening all around you? People are waking up! (And going insane) but the point is, if we wasnt born there but want to learn about how it was and is going to be(?) so it is easy to misread scripture for us. Scripture is Alleged right. do we understand it, so sometimes we glass over (a translation!) and maybe they didnt tranlate it the best way so when you go back to the original language and consider the other possible means of the word sometimes it can change the entire meaning of the passage by using a different definition for that word in it's original language. An example of this would be, remember when 4 Disciples came to Jesus and asked Him a few questions? Jesus gave then a private Briefing and answer all of their questions...so He talked Rapture, end times, 2nd coming Judgment, all that...and in the KJV translation it's easy for us to not catch it when Jesus changed subjects so for a long time I have missed that there was a change of subject in it cuz, I din' know the language and missed it. But Jesus changed subjects and talked of rapture and 2nd coming as two events, not one event.

In the Rapture there will be a Translation of Believers, in the 2nd coming no Translation is involved.
Rapture: Saints go to Heaven...2nd Coming: The Saints Return to Earth with Jesus.
Rapture: Earth is not Judged. ...2nd Coming: Earth is Judged.
Rapture: Is Imminent...2nd Coning is not Imminent.
Rapture Affects Believers only. 2nd coming Affects all men on earth.
Rapture is before the day of Wrath...2nd Coming Concludes the day of Wrath.
Rapture: He comes in the Air...2nd Coming: He comes to the Earth.
Rapture: Only the Saints will see Him...2nd Coming Every eye will see Him.
Rapture: He come for His Bride...2nd Coming: He comes With His Bride.

So even though I dont know the language and am sort of struggling through it, I think this may help to understand even though I have read the scriptures cover to cover (on my 5th time now) doesn't really even mean a whole lot, because each time I read it I see things that I missed before! New truth. And you know as well as I do that when you hear truth, it clicks inside of you and you know it is the truth.
That proves that the Holy Spirit is on the Job leading us into all truth, am I right?!

I dunno why, but it seems like most professing Christians are lucky if they pick up their Bible once a week. And that robs them of so much learning and truth. Because the more you read the scriptures the more (ephininys) you get. More truth each time. It gets so interesting that it's addictive, Lol! Just like everything else, ol.

I've been pondering the Rapture on & off, ever since Late Great Planet Earth came out Yes, I was a kid then, but I was a kid who loved to read books so I read it. I can remember thinking school wasnt teaching me anything so I skipped school to stay home and read a book of my own choosing because I still had that urge in me that this is the educational part of the day, so I figured read and learn something. I was a weird kid I guess! Lol. And I have been returned to the Lord since 9/22/09 when He saved my life and take it more serious than ever at this point. I wasn't listening to Him and the Lord chopped down everything I had and let me come to deaths door and that is what it took for me to sit up and say, Uh-Oh. I owe my Lord my life and this is serious.

And ever since then it's like life has been one continuous Blessing. Oh I still have plenty of tribulations, but I learned to let Him handle it, then it turns into a blessing. So you see, the more you read scripture prayerfully and study it, the time you give the Holy Spirit to give revelation to you as you read. He gives you a Rhema word. And you go, Ding! Ohhh...and you can feel it in the core of your being. That scripture spoke to you and you immediately applied to an aspect of your life somehow and, we all know when someone is speaking to us. Reading scripture is more addicitive than video games. You get saturated in it so when you walk through life into this or that scriptures pop up into your mind and you know which way you should walk through that situation! It's awesome! I have peace in my spirit finally about this rapture debate. It could be today, it's sorta cloudy out, I just checked again. (He wasnt up there yet).

I asked that one guy what is the potential danger to an alleged (lol) misled pretrib person? What danger does it pose as a Believer to be watching sooner than it happens?
He didnt answer that but I should have also asked him, what potential danger could it possibly be for a post trib postional Believer if (Big IF) he is wrong and so is not watching when it happens?

Wow, they could perhaps miss the rapture. It's worth it to delve in it deep enough for the truth and just like Scully & Mulder used to say, the truth is out there. But I think there is obviously less danger to holding a pretrib rapture position than a post trib postion because of the possibility of missing the rapture because the Lord decided I was a fence sitter or needed more time to develop my relationship with Him? Miss the rapture?! It says in scripture that it will be the worst time in the entire history of the world, who wants to go through that? I've had a hard enough life already, lol

Brother I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go all testimonia on you write this much and I do feel that time is short so sometimes I get to rambling. I have so many Trstimoies about supernatural tings that the Lord has done for me. I've had one audible conversation with Him, another time He sent an Angel which looked like a man to my garage sale to way over pay me for basically a bunch of house hold junk that she didnt take during the divorce! He talked himself up in price because I wasnt answering him when he offered an insane amount of money. I was waiting for the punch line! And he's like welll how about $1900 dollars for everything on that one table? and this is a garage salee (Tilt!!) I didnt know what to say to that. I knew it had to be a joke. Then he says, ok how about $2400? So I gave up, I wanted to hear the punch line so I said, ok that's fine....and the punch line was, he pulled out a huge stack of $100 dollar bills and counted me out 24 of them. That's the short version of that one, lol. After the Lord saved my life, I knew I owed Him my life and I found out a wonderful thing. I didnt know what else to do at the time other than pray to Him a lot and read that Bible so I started reading it again and I found out (it made sense) that if you actually do what the scriptures tell you, then you are a doer and will be rewarded for it both in this world and in the world to come. And I suppose that one side effect of being a Pre-Trib Believer is it rewuires you to be a doer and draw closer to the Lord and so you do it....and it didnt really even take very long. I put some heart into this, He saved my life! (That's a different Testimony). so the Lord suddenly began outright helping me here and there. He would give me little tests I figured out. And sometimes I fail the tests and sometimes I have passed the tests I tell you it feels good to pass a test! And all you have to do is exactly what the scripture tells you to do. And to get a good handle on it you could read them for a lifetime of study and not get it all. (I bet you we will still be studying the same book in the life to come! He said it wont pass away! It will be unlocked 100% for us.

I'll stop. Sorry.

Yes
The spirit of God leads us into truth.
The pretrib rapture is the easiest of all doctrine to defend.
It is also the biggest offense in Christianity.
But 100% pure Bible.
I can debate the best of them, because I do not need to rewrite verses.
All postribbers change the components of the virgins parable.
All postribbers change mat 24 "before the flood " as the setting for the rapture

 

[rebuilder 454]

Nah, not so fast. Show Scripture proof that the pre-trib rapture is written in God's Word. I challenge you.

It would not matter.
You have ZERO VERSES pointing to a postrib rapture.
ZERO

And if I post all the pretrib rapture verses, it would be like doing it to a telephone pole.
You are hopelessly mired in false doctrine.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Look Brother. You already said that you wont even take the time to consider anything except wat you have already chosen to believe. So what value is to be gained in even responding to you? You're not worth the effort with your arogant self. You dont have to believe me. Go embrace your arrogance and let the less arrogant people have a discussion.

Have a nice day!

You can post ten of them and he will keep trolling you.
Post a few and watch him say " show me with the bible".
He is strictly here to wear you and me out.
Troll

 

[rebuilder 454]

I have the evidence about it but you will have to be open minded enough to consider it honestly before outright rejecting it. Make sense?

It really is fashioned like an old time Hebrew wedding ceremony. First there is a Betrohal in which the prospective groom comes to the bride and offers her a cup of betrohal wine and if she accepts it and drinks it, then the groom leaves...to go to his Fathers house to prepare a place for her. He will add a new room to that house or build a seperate house on the same land and furnish it and get it all ready for her to come home to. This rocess usually lasted about a full year, and you know how things go, things come up here and there and so neither of them know exactly when he will be finished with her place and then come for her. But for all intents and purposes, she is already his wife or fiance at that point so everyone leave her alone and dont ask her out!

So the groom leaves finally to go get his bride and he usually arrives in the night time, so she was supposed to be ready and watching and have oil in her lamp already. As the wedding procession draws close they give a shout to announce their arrival for her and she goes to meet him and he takes her home to the place that he has prepred for her.

When they get to the place ther is a great banquet and the ceremony and then then they go into their new place (chamber) for 7 days and dont come out until after 7 days.

Now we reate this to the rapture because all of the signs are there in scripture which Jesus spoke of.
Jesus said, I must leave you now, I go to prepare a place for you...(John 14:3)
Jesus said, when I return I wall come unexpectedly, as a thief in the night...(Matthew 24:42-44 Luke 12:40)
Jesus said go into your chambers and hide yourself=ves for a ittle while until the indignation is past (Isaiah 26:20) [This is the 7 days in the chamber, and propetical days are counted for years, 7 or the Tribulation period. We wont be here for that]
Jesus said, because we were ready and persevered to keep watch that we will not go through the time of testing that is to come upon the world (Revelation 3:10-13)
Jesus said, we are not appointed to His wrath but to salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9)

So the Tribulation period and the Great Tribulation is not for the Bride of Christ, but for the the unbelievers! Israel and the Jews and the rest of the Gentiles. The bride is set apart.

Is this enough for now? I have more. But it can clearly be seen the similarities between how Jesus spoke of the rapture & the Bride and the ancient wedding customs. Why would God change now? He doesn't, that's how He does it. And if you stare at it long enough and ponder it long enough you can see this also. It seems very clear to me now.

We look at it, and it is awesome to us.
They look at it as a threat to their false unbiblical doctrine.
They will never look at it.
It is too painful.

 

[rebuilder 454]

All end times is looked at by heaven through the bride/groom prism.
The gathering of the bride.
The ones betrothed to their groom.
The ones with oil.
The ones intimate.
Amazing how half the church casts this down.
They have no interest in the groom.
Their focus is on the coming of the AC and suffering.
Hmmmm..now that is interesting. Because half the church is left behind as the Bible teaches

 

[marks]

I can come to no other conclusion.

Go with that then, I'm not going to try to change your mind. You seem much more interested in discussing your opinions of me than in discussing the rapture and I'm just not interested. Maybe you find it safer or more comfortable to discuss me, maybe you cannot stop yourself, I don't know.

Apparently you have your ideas about "what I'm feeling" which you project on me. I hope you can see how these things are conversation killers. And the fact that I point it out is just that. I'm pointing it out.

It's really a typical response I see. I point to someone's bad behavior hoping they will rectify it. All too often the person doubles down just like you did here. Make it like I'm just overly emotional (if you knew me you'd know what a laugh that is!) so you can ignore what I've pointed to, and make it about me. And that's just no good.

If you care to coddle in you mind images of me crying in a corner, well, feel free. I'm just not interested. It's not like you are somehow hurting my feelings, the fact is, I know what's true about me, you don't, and I don't have a personal stake in your ignorance of me, or your opinions of me. That's all you.

I'm happy to discuss the rapture all day long. I've done that for decades. The rapture. Not me.

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yea, it is really "error" to believe the Bible? ;) You won't catch me believing that one!

Never said that.

If you want to read into Scriptures what you wish to believe, power to you...

How incredibly silly! How someone pronounces a name makes a difference? Would you exclude lispers from the Kingdom of God? Would you expel from God's Kingdom those who speak a different language than you?

People don't understand because they don't wish to believe the right narrative, even when it is plainly told them. People didn't get parables not because they were too complex to understand, but rather, because they were so simple, and so explicit, that they did understand and wanted to read something else into the story that they preferred to believe.

I referred to what Yeshua said on Matthew and Mark.

 

[marks]

Yea, it is really "error" to believe the Bible? ;) You won't catch me believing that one! If you want to read into Scriptures what you wish to believe, power to you...

How incredibly silly! How someone pronounces a name makes a difference? Would you exclude lispers from the Kingdom of God? Would you expel from God's Kingdom those who speak a different language than you?

People don't understand because they don't wish to believe the right narrative, even when it is plainly told them. People didn't get parables not because they were too complex to understand, but rather, because they were so simple, and so explicit, that they did understand and wanted to read something else into the story that they preferred to believe.

So it's not just me. You speak to others the same way. There isn't a single word in your post here that addresses the topic, it's all running down the one you are replying to. Not a good look for a Christian, not to me.

I'm big on bounderies. I can share my opinon of the topic, but it's not for me to share my opinions of you, particularly negative opinions.

Do you do this to try to stifle real discussion? Or because you think you are the arbiter of other's thoughts? Or because you just say whatever you think without filters?

Is it true that you don't want to believe truth, therefore you won't accept my view??

I've plainly told you the right narrative - we've discussed this before - and you won't accept my view why? Because you are silly?

These discussions are plodding along on a children's level, like the schoolyard playground. Is it too much to ask that we can all act like adults? Respectful? Minding our own selves? Maybe it is.

I say these things hoping, just hoping, that you will receive this with wisdom, and will consider your ways.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

So it's not just me. You speak to others the same way. There isn't a single word in your post here that addresses the topic, it's all running down the one you are replying to. Not a good look for a Christian, not to me.

I'm big on bounderies. I can share my opinon of the topic, but it's not for me to share my opinions of you, particularly negative opinions.

Do you do this to try to stifle real discussion? Or because you think you are the arbiter of other's thoughts? Or because you just say whatever you think without filters?

Is it true that you don't want to believe truth, therefore you won't accept my view??

I've plainly told you the right narrative - we've discussed this before - and you won't accept my view why? Because you are silly?

These discussions are plodding along on a children's level, like the schoolyard playground. Is it too much to ask that we can all act like adults? Respectful? Minding our own selves? Maybe it is.

I say these things hoping, just hoping, that you will receive this with wisdom, and will consider your ways.

Much love!

Much love!

Again, personal grudges is not the subject. What I think is "silly" is not the subject. Whether I think your argument is clueless is not the subject. What *is* the subject are the points being made. We can work out the relationships, but not to the exclusion of the points.

You are making this all personal. I have no wish to make this personal. I just wish to have the freedom to frame how strong or weak your arguments may be. This is what debate does. It grades how strong or weak the arguments are.

I would grade your arguments as distracting, because they wish to focus on anything but the points that were made. Why not address the arguments themselves? As I've said all along, bad arguments have no recourse but personal attack.

You falsely claim that I just called someone "silly" without at all addressing the issue. I directly addressed the issue, which was that he thinks how a name is pronounced makes a difference. How did you miss that?