Within the overall context of the prophecy, it is the beast who is rising in power, to eventually be given authority over all mankind.
Is Jesus bringing the Gospel really what is intended as Jesus opens the seal?
Much love!
The first horseman of the Apocalypse
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Within the overall context of the prophecy, it is the beast who is rising in power, to eventually be given authority over all mankind.
Is Jesus bringing the Gospel really what is intended as Jesus opens the seal?
Much love!
The antichrist is released starting the tribulation chain of events.
Subsequent seals release death and war as part of the tribulation.
shalom Aleichem
The only "reinterpretation" taking place is done by those who cannot see the wood for the trees. Those who ignore, for example, how the color white is used in the Revelation, so as to continue interpreting the first horseman in such a way as to force it to comply with their starting point.
Falsely accusing anyone who disagrees with you. of faulty interpretation, and inventing one imagined crime of hermeneutical eisegesis upon another in order that you may hold onto your starting premise after you have already inserted your own misinterpretations into the text, makes you guilty of the very things you accuse those who disagree with you of.
In humility let the Holy Spirit guide you instead of commentaries produced by the imaginations of men.
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No, the question is valid because if you view the horses as literal horses will probably decide how you view the riders on the first two horses.
I like the way you avoid questions when they're uncomfortable for you :) Actually no that should be
If you answer the question we may be able to proceed. Then I may answer the question you asked.
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The second horseman has no crown/s on his head. It may be bogus to you, but it's true to anyone who reads the text.
Let me klnow when you've read the text properly.
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The only "reinterpretation" taking place is done by those who cannot see the wood for the trees. Those who ignore, for example, how the color white is used in the Revelation, so as to continue interpreting the first horseman in such a way as to force it to comply with their starting point.
Falsely accusing anyone who disagrees with you. of faulty interpretation, and inventing one imagined crime of hermeneutical eisegesis upon another in order that you may hold onto your starting premise after you have already inserted your own misinterpretations into the text, makes you guilty of the very things you accuse those who disagree with you.
In humility let the Holy Spirit guide you instead of commentaries produced by the imaginations of men, merely because they agree with your misinterpretation of the text.
The antichrist is the counterfeit messiah, as the scriptures show, he pretends to be messiah, so he’s depicted on a white horse as he takes over the whole world.
And using five-dollar words and terms does not make you right, nor intimidate me with your vast intellect.
I choose not to try to impress people or intimidate them by such egotistical means.
BTW inserting personal bias into a text is eisegesis- so you missed the chance to use that term.
We will disagree on everything you have said and on everything you just said above until the cows come home today and tomorrow and next century (if we live that long or the return of Christ hasn't already come).
BUT I don't care. The only thing I care about is who's in the Ark of our salvation when He comes. He told me if I want to be greater than you then I must be your servant and he told you that if you wanna be greater than me then you must be my servant.
At your service,
FoTG
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
All of the 4 horsemen in Rev. 6 are symbolic of the first 4 signs Christ gave in the Olivet Prophecy because they are described by John as appearing in the exact same order in which Christ prophesied in Matt. 24.
1st Sign: "And Jesus answered and said to them: 'Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." - Matt. 24:4-5
1st Horseman: "Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, 'Come and see.' And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." - Rev. 6:1-2
Revelation gives a slightly different description of Christ when He returns riding a white horse, but it makes all the difference:
"His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself..Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations.." - Rev. 19:12
The rider of the white horse has only 1 crown and uses a bow, but Christ is described as wearing many crowns and using a sword. The lesson being taught here is that the rider of the white horse symbolizes false religions being spread, including false Christianity.
Another look at Rev. 6:1-2 reveals why the 1st horseman has nothing to do with the true gospel or true religion being spread: the rider's intent is to conquer the world. Christ's intent is to bring peace and happiness to the world. The bow that is used by the 1st rider also signifies that the rider is deceptively more dangerous than the 3 horsemen that follows him, particularly because everything the other 3 riders does are the results of people being deceived by false religions.
The two riders on the white horse are not the same, as a little investigation shows.
The Greek text in Revelations 6 reveals that the crown worn by the rider on the white horse is called “stephanos,” a crown of victory worn by a military conqueror. The Greek word for the crown that Christ wears in Revelation 19 is “diadema” or a crown of royalty. The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 is the great deceiver, the counterfeit messiah.
Revelation 13:4 confirms he is a great military leader who seems completely unstoppable and unbeatable.
Jesus prophesied that the false messiah would come first, in Matthew 24, followed by the abomination of desolation/son of perdition event - a mid trib event - in verse 15, followed by His coming in verses 30 and 31.
The rider of the first white horse is loosed, and the tribulation begins.
The second one, the red horse, brings death in which 1/3 of the earth die.
Revelation 9:14-15 tells us, “saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, ‘Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates. So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.”
The third horse is the black horse of famine, which brings with it a global food shortage.
The rider on the black horse holds up a balance and scale, declaring how much one simple meal will cost…the sum of one day’s wages. There will not be enough to share with family or friends. Just one meal for one day’s wages. Starving people in the coming global famine of the Great Tribulation will kill each other in order to eat.
The Anti-Christ will have complete control over all of the food on planet earth. The oil and wine discussed in the book of Revelation are food for the wealthy, also controlled by the Anti-Christ.
The fourth horse is the pale horse of death. The Greek word for this horse is “c
ros,” which means green. The CIA Fact Book (1999) states that green is the traditional color of Islam.
Revelation 6:8 says, “So, I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”
Islam now controls ¼ of the earth.
The pieces of the puzzle all fit together.
The Greek text in Revelations 6 reveals that the crown worn by the rider on the white horse is called “stephanos,” a crown of victory worn by a military conqueror. The Greek word for the crown that Christ wears in Revelation 19 is “diadema” or a crown of royalty. The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 is the great deceiver, the counterfeit messiah.
Revelation 13:4 confirms he is a great military leader who seems completely unstoppable and unbeatable.
Jesus prophesied that the false messiah would come first, in Matthew 24, followed by the abomination of desolation/son of perdition event - a mid trib event - in verse 15, followed by His coming in verses 30 and 31.
The rider of the first white horse is loosed, and the tribulation begins.
The second one, the red horse, brings death in which 1/3 of the earth die.
Revelation 9:14-15 tells us, “saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, ‘Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates. So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.”
The third horse is the black horse of famine, which brings with it a global food shortage.
The rider on the black horse holds up a balance and scale, declaring how much one simple meal will cost…the sum of one day’s wages. There will not be enough to share with family or friends. Just one meal for one day’s wages. Starving people in the coming global famine of the Great Tribulation will kill each other in order to eat.
The Anti-Christ will have complete control over all of the food on planet earth. The oil and wine discussed in the book of Revelation are food for the wealthy, also controlled by the Anti-Christ.
The fourth horse is the pale horse of death. The Greek word for this horse is “c
ros,” which means green. The CIA Fact Book (1999) states that green is the traditional color of Islam.Revelation 6:8 says, “So, I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”
Islam now controls ¼ of the earth.
The pieces of the puzzle all fit together.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The horses are not any beings but all related to the church. So how do these 4 points relate to the church, which is about to be taken away at the 6th Seal?
Health, Safety, Wealth, and Lifestyle are being affected.
Health, Safety, Wealth, and Lifestyle are being affected.
There’s no biblical grounds for saying that.
How’s the death horse or famine horse riders related to the church?
The rapture is mid trib, btw.
Matthew 24:15 is mid trib.the rapture is verdes 29 and 30.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Mid trib is not in Scripture, because the tribulation started in the first century. That would put the rapture at 1000AD. So unless you define a specific tribulation, you cannot just plop a midway point just any where.
Should John have pointed out between the 4th and 5th Seal: "Oh, by the way this is the tribulation of those days."?
The 4th Seal of Death is related to the church, because the church needs to know that any who just play church, are now those like Paul said, "All of Israel are not of Israel". All who claim to be of the church are not the church. Those people are not going to sheol with the unbelievers. They are marked for Death and their names will be removed from the Lamb's book of life, after the 7th Seal is opened.
It is a dire reminder they they who know the truth, but deny the power thereof, will be eternally damned.
This is not even a disagreement on doctrine, theology, nor eschatology, which are only man's interpretations and understandings. It is a decision each individual makes with a God they know and refuse in their minds.
The church has been sealed in this Lamb's book of life. The Seals are coming off one by one, and soon the Second Coming will happen without warning, except all humanity will see the sign at the Second Coming, and will mourn.
You claim a specific mid trib point? What part of this alledged trib do you force the church to be part of? If you question the Seals, why allow any tribulation at all? If you break up the Seals and lump all the judgments as one single event, what is the point in then splitting it back out to events of your choosing?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
He isn't wearing a crown he is given one. And he has a bow and he goes out to conquer. JESUS did not spread the gospel throughout the world by conquering. He does it by His Word and love.
IMHO, My Suggestion: The crown given to him is corona virus. It is the Antichrist in charge of the world now and he/with his crown has in fact conquered the world with lies, fear, confusion, death - this is exactly how Satan conquers. This is not popular and most don't agree. If war breaks out in the Middle East with many nations attacking Israel, then you will know the Red Horse is on the move. Famine and death follow behind and accumulate. Pre-tribbers don't want to accept this view because they believe we will be taken out prior to this Great Tribulatuon as well as a Temple needed to be built in Jerusalem.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
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The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived
There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)
The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected
The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees
All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30
Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected
Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt
Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The Seals are not the GT. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal prior to the GT during the Trumpets and Thunders.
Covid is still at work conquering. The 4th Seal leads up to the Mount of Olives 6th Seal Second Coming. Still no AC.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Really, the fourth horsemen brings death to 1/4 of the population from wars famine and plagues. That's 1.95 billion people. Do you think you'll be telling people, "Nope, we are not in it yet, it's the 6th seal"?
Well it seems like the world is in a state of confusion, fear anf stress like no other time. We are being lied to and manipulated. It may be the begginning of sorrows that precedes the GT. I think within the next six months we should know if we are getting out of it or deeper into it.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Way Way Off - dear Brother - in no way is it either the gospel and/or our Lord.
White also symbolizes antichrists - wolves in sheeps clothing.
The First Seal has been released upon the world - it is the Plandemic.
The antichrists in white = Big Pharma
The Rider given a crown in which to conquer - Covid - shaped in fashion to a crown with the spikes
The BOW does not come with arrows - WHY - the Bow is the NEEDLE - now think here, think think think - the answer is plain to see
Big Pharma together with the governments have conquered the world - right now - with the Plandemic - more is to come
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