The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

[Taken]

I'm saying it because that's what the Bible says..........

Matthew 7:21
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Correct.
Matt 7:21
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Now continue Reading.

Matt 7:
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

See? Men claimed THEY DID "Wonderful Works", in Jesus Name.

Matt 7:
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hummm.
SEE the Problem?
Their "so call Wonderful Works" MEANS "Nothing"!
Their Works will be Burned.
Why?
Because "THEY" Never Professed Belief, Received Salvation of their Soul or a Quickened spirit...and THUS, Jesus DOES NOT KNOW Them.

Have already gone over this.
The Gift of Salvation and Quickened spirit of man, IS FOR Heartful Confessed Belief.

Works Glorifying to God, can ONLY be accomplished BY a Saved and Born Again man AFTER the man IS Saved and Born Again.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
3For it is God’s will that you should be holy

Correct.
A Saved and Born Again man IS Living IN Christ Jesus' Holy Body.

Hebrews 12:14
14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

Correct.
Jesus' Church- IS the BRIDE of Christ...(I and others IN Christ, Shall SEE their Lord God, (as He IS) at the marriage, When the Veil is Lifted, Because we are raised in uncorruptable Flesh, prepared for the Marriage Union.

1 John 3:
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, . <--- (that Applies ONLY to the Saved and Born Again ) and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

As we can see, no person without holiness will be saved when Jesus comes back. The church says that's not true because salvation is not by works. The church does not believe what the Bible says because it thinks that's a works gospel.

As you should KNOW- a man WHO has already become Converted IN CHRIST, is Already accounted Crucified, Dead, Washed in Jesus' Blood, Sanctified, Sealed, Lives IN Jesus' Holy Risen Body, and Justified to Be Claimed and Raised IN Glory by their Lord God Almighty.

Jesus is Not Returning to Save People.
The Saving and Quickening of men has been a Division Between men ON Earth, that has been happening for the last 2,000 + Years.
Jesus is Returning With Power...TO Separate the Divided men.
Men Divided WITH Him...FROM the men DIVIDED WITHOUT Him.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Works Are NOT necessary to be Saved.

1 Cor 3
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Hopefully now you can see this means that you don't have to be successful in your work of building up the kingdom of God in order to be saved when Jesus comes back. This has nothing to do with you living in sin and having no works of holiness and still being able to enter into the kingdom when Jesus comes back. The person who does not live for God in this life will not be saved when Jesus comes back. He will not be saved then because he is not saved now. His life proves that he does not have saving faith in God's salvation. This isn't a guilt trip on true believers fighting the epic battle with sin in their members everyday. This is a guilt trip on the person who says he is saved but purposely lives in his sin and doesn't care, thinking he is saved anyway.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

As you should KNOW- a man WHO has already become Converted IN CHRIST, is Already accounted Crucified, Dead, Washed in Jesus' Blood, Sanctified, Sealed, Lives IN Jesus' Holy Risen Body, and Justified to Be Claimed and Raised IN Glory by their Lord God Almighty.

You can see here that the holiness you must have to be saved is not only the legal declaration of holiness you get through Christ. It's your personal life of holiness.....

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


The person who says they are holy in Christ but does not live in the holiness of Christ is not born again.........

1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

People who don't have works are not saved.

I think that scripture contradicts your point (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

I'm saying it because that's what the Bible says..........

Matthew 7:21
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
3For it is God’s will that you should be holy

Hebrews 12:14
14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

These verses do not teach us that works are necessary for salvation. They teach us that the Lord will produce holiness in those who are genuinely born again.

What is the will of the Father? It is proclaimed to us in John 6:39.

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it (his work) is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved

You've got Paul telling us we will be saved if we don't do the will of God while Jesus tells us we won't be saved if we don't do the will of God. These verses right here tell us that Paul is talking about the work one does in building up the kingdom of God, not one's work of personal holy living......

Personal holy living is not a work of man...it is a work of the Holy Spirit in man.

Jesus is Not Returning to Save People.

Heb 9:27, And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

These verses do not teach us that works are necessary for salvation.

Matthew 7:21
21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

If only those who do the will of the Father will enter into the kingdom of heaven when Jesus comes back how does a person enter the kingdom of heaven, as you claim, if he does not do the will of the Father?

Works are necessary, but not to earn salvation, but because saved people have works. Unsaved people do not. If you don't have works you are not saved and so you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven when Jesus comes back.

They teach us that the Lord will produce holiness in those who are genuinely born again.

That's why works are necessary to be saved when Jesus comes back. Only saved people have works. If you don't have works you are showing yourself to not be born again and you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The church needs to get off this once saved always saved kick and teach what Jesus teaches. It doesn't matter one way or the other if once saved always saved is true if you're not even saved to begin with. And the Bible tells us to make sure we are saved by putting our faith into action. It does not tell us that since salvation is not by works you don't have to have works to enter the kingdom of heaven when Jesus returns. That teaching deceives unsaved people who think they are saved into thinking they are ready to meet Jesus when the truth is they are not.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you don't have works you are not saved

I do believe that the holy scriptures contradict your pov (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

If you don't have works you are showing yourself to not be born again and you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I do have works but I am not saved by them (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

And the Bible tells us to make sure we are saved by putting our faith into action.

We cannot save ourselves by what we do (in the sense of works). The only thing that we can do to save ourselves is to call upon the name of the Lord (Romans 10:13); which will guarantee our salvation even if we have no subsequent works.

It does not tell us that since salvation is not by works you don't have to have works to enter the kingdom of heaven when Jesus returns.

It does indeed tell us that (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

That teaching deceives unsaved people who think they are saved into thinking they are ready to meet Jesus when the truth is they are not.

It is a deception to tell an unsaved person that they can save themselves by beginning a process of doing many good works. Because works don't save (Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9).

We must be regenerated and renewed by the Holy Ghost (Titus 3:5) through faith (Galatians 3:14) alone in Jesus Christ alone (not in any good thing that we can do to save ourselves) by the mercy of the Lord.

If we attempt to do good works to save ourselves, we are attempting to earn wages; and the reward is not reckoned as grace but as debt (see Romans 4:4). And God will owe no man anything.

 

[Taken]

Works are necessary for salvation because Jesus himself said only those who do his will enter into the kingdom of God when he comes back. Your problem is you think that can only mean works earn salvation. That's why you don't believe Jesus' words. You can't fathom how you have to have works to show for your faith when Jesus comes back and that not be a works gospel. And so you mislead yourself and others into thinking you do not have to live for God in this life to be saved when Jesus comes back and that all you have to have is faith that is alone to be saved when Jesus comes back.


When we put these two passages together we can see right away that Paul can't be talking about not having works of holiness but still being saved when Jesus comes back...........

Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15
14If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15If it (his work) is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved

You've got Paul telling us we will be saved if we don't do the will of God while Jesus tells us we won't be saved if we don't do the will of God. These verses right here tell us that Paul is talking about the work one does in building up the kingdom of God, not one's work of personal holy living......

1 Corinthians 3:5-9
5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Simple- Hear, trust, Believe, Commit- become Saved / Born Again.
One Event ^

THEREAFTER- Do works that glorify God, receive Reward when the Son of Man Returns with Power. ^
One event ^

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You can see here that the holiness you must have to be saved is not only the legal declaration of holiness you get through Christ. It's your personal life of holiness.....

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


The person who says they are holy in Christ but does not live in the holiness of Christ is not born again.........

1 John 3:9
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Uh huh.

1 John 1: 3:9 mean?

What does "that sin" mean to you?
Examples?

 

[DaChaser]

This thread is needed because eternal security advocates tend to ignore relevant biblical contexts and verse clusters. The thread will initially focus on the 2nd half of the first century (Revelation and then Hebrews) and then shift to Paul and finally to Jesus. In the process, it will be demonstrated that the election and perseverance texts cited by the OSAS advocates are actually irrelevant to the issue. To avoid chaotic discussion please follow my lead and focus your remarks on the biblical book currently under discussion.

1. THE BOOK OF REVELATION

The case against OSAS in Revelation is clearcut and decisive.

“If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes and I will not erase your name from the Book of Life (3:6).”

The threat of erasure implies that the church of Sardis already has their names written in the Book of Life! To prevent the loss of their salvation, they must “conquer,” that is, they must heed the Lord's threat: “Remember then what you have received and heard; obey it and repent. If you do not wake up, I will come like a thief (3:3).” These Christians must persevere in their faith like “those who have not soiled their garments (3:4).”

In the letter to the church of Smyrna the need to “conquer” is again stressed as the way to avoid losing one's salvation: “Whoever conquers will not be harmed by the second death (2:11).” And how can Christians conquer? “Be faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life (3:10).” Again, the implication is that if they are not faithful, their names that are already written in the Book of Life will be erased and they will forfeit “the crown of life.” Remember, the Greek word for “faith” also means “faithful.”

Jesus Himself said that NONE that he saves shall ever be lost again, and that he will raise up ALL of His own, do you think Jesus was wrong, confused, or lied?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Uh huh.

1 John 1: 3:9 mean?

What does "that sin" mean to you?
Examples?

1 John 3:9 is referring to the person who has not been made a new creation in Christ. He is still an old creation. He isn't being sanctified by the Spirit, because he doesn't have the Spirit.

You've made this so complicated because you're trying, right or wrong that's not the point, to preserve a pet doctrine that is worthless. And I will show you why it's worthless.

Now, 1 John 3:9 is true whether you think it is or not. With that being true, if a person confesses faith in Christ apart from the merit of works but then continues to be the old creation he always has been one of these three things is true.....

1) He was not really born again. His confession was fake and ineffective and he remains the person living in sin he always has been. He will not inherit the kingdom of God when Jesus comes back.

2) He is no longer born again. He stopped believing, and as a natural consequence of that he went back to living in sin and being the old creation he was before. He will not inherit the kingdom of God when Jesus comes back.

3) It doesn't matter that he is the same old sinner he has always been. As long as he has faith that is alone, and since salvation is not by works he will enter the kingdom of God when Jesus comes back.


#3 is ridiculous. So you can scratch that one out straight away. It makes 1 John 3:9 so utterly false that it's not even to be considered.

As far as #1 and #2? What does it matter? This person is still going to hell either way! It doesn't matter why they are still in the old nature. It doesn't matter if they never believed or stopped believing. The important point is he is not born again and as a result he's not going to inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. Instead of telling people that truth the church peddles this once saved always saved, not once saved always saved garbage. The important message is Jesus' message........if you get to the Judgment having lived your life in sin and not in righteousness you ain't going into the kingdom of God no matter what you claim with your mouth. Dead faith is NO faith. And people with no faith do not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus Himself said that NONE that he saves shall ever be lost again, and that he will raise up ALL of His own, do you think Jesus was wrong, confused, or lied?

What you should be telling people is this doesn't matter one iota if they are living in sin and do not have a life of righteous works. Because the person who doesn't have a new life of works of faith is not even born again for the once saved always saved/ not once saved always saved argument to even matter. The important message that people need to hear is that faith must manifest in works of righteousness or it isn't real faith. Dead faith is NO faith. Born again people don't continue to be the old creation they have always been. Born again people don't have dead faith. The person with dead faith is not born again.

 

[justbyfaith]

There is the problem of whether the Bible is a viable source.

I can see what you are contending for, @Ferris Beuller,

But you need to contend for your position without putting in doubt specific verses in the Bible that seem to contradict your pov.

Because if those verses are not valid, then the verses that you would use to promote you pov are also not valid.

So, you have to deal with the verses in question which say that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works.

(such as Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9).

You have to integrate them into a theology that says what you are saying and not attempt to completely discount them as if the verses you are quoting are more inspired than the ones I am now referencing.

I acknowledge that your verses are inspired; but if my verses are not also inspired then the inspiration of your verses is also in question.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There is the problem of whether the Bible is a viable source.

I can see what you are contending for, @Ferris Beuller,

But you need to contend for your position without putting in doubt specific verses in the Bible that seem to contradict your pov.

Because if those verses are not valid, then the verses that you would use to promote you pov are also not valid.

So, you have to deal with the verses in question which say that we are saved by grace through faith apart from works.

(such as Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5, Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9).

You have to integrate them into a theology that says what you are saying and not attempt to completely discount them as if the verses you are quoting are more inspired than the ones I am now referencing.

I acknowledge that your verses are inspired; but if my verses are not also inspired then the inspiration of your verses is also in question.

I did not share anything that nullifies any verse of scripture. What I shared reconciles them. The once saved always saved vs. not once saved always saved argument is irrelevant when we keep the focus on being ready to meet Christ when he comes back with a life of righteous works, which is what the message of the Bible is. And that teaching in no way nullifies any verse of scripture. Focusing on once saved always saved has made it so people who have dead faith are deceived into thinking they have the faith that saves.

 

[justbyfaith]

To say that we must have works in order to be saved is to teach against the following scriptures:

Romans 4:5-6, Titus 3:5 (kjv), Romans 11:5-6, and Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

[DaChaser]

What you should be telling people is this doesn't matter one iota if they are living in sin and do not have a life of righteous works. Because the person who doesn't have a new life of works of faith is not even born again for the once saved always saved/ not once saved always saved argument to even matter. The important message that people need to hear is that faith must manifest in works of righteousness or it isn't real faith. Dead faith is NO faith. Born again people don't continue to be the old creation they have always been. Born again people don't have dead faith. The person with dead faith is not born again.

The saved shall have fruit produced as in good works, but will not be perfect!

 

[justbyfaith]

The saved shall have fruit produced as in good works, but will not be perfect!

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[DaChaser]

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Greek construction here is not that saved one cannot and will not sin, but that he will not be an habitual sinner!

 

[justbyfaith]

Greek construction here is not that saved one cannot and will not sin, but that he will not be an habitual sinner!

I guess you are going to have to wait until it becomes evident that your sin is habitual then before you will be able to see that you are a sinner in need of the Saviour.

As opposed to if you sin but once, this telling you that you need Jesus; you will have to commit your sins habitually over a long period of time before you will recognize that you are a sinner apart from Christ.

It is an unnecessary delay.

You can recognize upon the committing of one sin that this means that you are the servant of sin (John 8:31-36); or you can believe the false teaching that you are not the servant of sin unless you have committed the same sin over and over again (perhaps intermittently over a period of time; in which you have committed the same sin once every two weeks over a period of twenty years); in which case it will take that twenty years before you will be willing to come to Christ for redemption (see Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14, 1 John 1:7); recognizing that you are a sinner in need of the Saviour.