The Eternal Security Heresy: A Comprehensive Refutation of OSAS

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justbyfaith

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and claiming these were not Greek peoples.

That is not what I have claimed.

them voices you got going on .. but methinks they are not good spirits.

I rarely hear voices any more....but beware lest you cross the line and blaspheme the Holy Ghost....attributing what is of the Holy Ghost to demons.

I don't think that you did that here...because the subject matter is not anything where the Holy Spirit is wanting to convict you of sin or draw you to Jesus...but for future reference...saying something like that puts you in mortal spiritual danger...because if what the person is saying is of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is wanting to convict you or draw you to Jesus through those words...attributing such a thing to a demon is the unpardonable sin and I do not want to ever see you commit that.
 

Cooper

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None that you would believe. How were they perfected forever here in Heb 10:14
You asked, “How were they perfected forever here in Heb 10:14.” It was through Jesus Christ as we all know, but what you said here in italics did not seem quite right. “It hasn't nothing to do with accepting. God accepted what Christ done to save His people. Since God accepted Christ Blood, all Salvation will be applied automatically to the ones He died for. Christ fulfilled all requirements”

I think it is better explained here:

Jesus Christ: The Sanctifier and Model of Sanctification.
The singular means of God's sanctifying grace is Jesus Christ: "We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" ( Heb 10:10 ). Christ was qualified to sanctify because he himself had been sanctified through suffering ( Heb 2:10-11 ). First, Jesus Christ was the only human being since the fall to live a continuously, perfectly sanctified life. He was without sin, therefore, without guilt or dysfunctionality. He was sanctified from the moment of his conception ( Matt 1:18-20 ; Luke 1:35 ). He was rightly called the "Holy One of God" ( Mark 1:24 ), sanctified by the Father ( John 10:36 ). In his character, therefore, Jesus Christ was morally sanctified. Second, he was vocationally sanctified. Christ did what the Father called him to do ( John 5:19 John 5:30 John 5:36 ; 6:38 ; 8:28-29 ; 12:49 ). He accomplished his vocational purpose through time, yet he continually fulfilled his moral purpose. He sanctified himself by fulfilling his unique calling as the Messiah ( John 17:19 ), being declared the Son of God at his resurrection ( Rom 1:4 ). Jesus Christ, therefore, is the model human being for both moral and vocational sanctification ( Php 2:5-11 ).

Just as all forgiveness of sin was provisional until the ministry of the Messiah was complete, so all sanctification was provisional ( Heb 9:13-14 ; 10:10-12 ). The incarnation was an indispensable means for sanctifying humanity because it was necessary that the sanctifier be from within humanity ( Heb 2:11 ). Christ's sacrificial offering of himself to God achieved comprehensive sanctification for all people ( Hebrews 10:10 Hebrews 10:14 Hebrews 10:29 ; 13:12 ). In addition, the return of Christ will mark the beginning of remade heaven and earth ( 2 Peter 3:10-13 ).

What is Sanctification? Bible Definition and Meaning
 

Ferris Bueller

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That verse doesn't make believing a condition to get saved. That's salvation by works by what a person does!
What? Trusting in God to forgive your sins is salvation by works? Is that just something you personally believe. Or is there an organized denomination that believes that?
 

charity

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Yes we are justified by our works by God. Just not according to how Paul uses the word. Works justify you as being righteous in Christ. Faith is how you got that righteousness. We are justified by both faith and works. The faith that saves is the faith that makes you righteous apart from works and can be seen in how you live. If you can't see your faith in how you live you don't have the faith that makes a person righteous apart from works. That's why a man must be justified by both faith and works. Real faith works.

'Then said they unto Him,
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them,
This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.'

(John 6:28)

'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,
(by grace ye are saved )
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace
in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Eph 2:1-10)

* The obedience of faith is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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* The obedience of faith is to believe on Him whom He hath sent.
Isn't the obedience of faith actually doing what God commands, doing those things through your faith in God? Or are you just referring to how you receive justification when you believe?
 

brightfame52

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You asked, “How were they perfected forever here in Heb 10:14.” It was through Jesus Christ as we all know, but what you said here in italics did not seem quite right. “It hasn't nothing to do with accepting. God accepted what Christ done to save His people. Since God accepted Christ Blood, all Salvation will be applied automatically to the ones He died for. Christ fulfilled all requirements”

I think it is better explained here:

Jesus Christ: The Sanctifier and Model of Sanctification.
The singular means of God's sanctifying grace is Jesus Christ: "We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" ( Heb 10:10 ). Christ was qualified to sanctify because he himself had been sanctified through suffering ( Heb 2:10-11 ). First, Jesus Christ was the only human being since the fall to live a continuously, perfectly sanctified life. He was without sin, therefore, without guilt or dysfunctionality. He was sanctified from the moment of his conception ( Matt 1:18-20 ; Luke 1:35 ). He was rightly called the "Holy One of God" ( Mark 1:24 ), sanctified by the Father ( John 10:36 ). In his character, therefore, Jesus Christ was morally sanctified. Second, he was vocationally sanctified. Christ did what the Father called him to do ( John 5:19 John 5:30 John 5:36 ; 6:38 ; 8:28-29 ; 12:49 ). He accomplished his vocational purpose through time, yet he continually fulfilled his moral purpose. He sanctified himself by fulfilling his unique calling as the Messiah ( John 17:19 ), being declared the Son of God at his resurrection ( Rom 1:4 ). Jesus Christ, therefore, is the model human being for both moral and vocational sanctification ( Php 2:5-11 ).

Just as all forgiveness of sin was provisional until the ministry of the Messiah was complete, so all sanctification was provisional ( Heb 9:13-14 ; 10:10-12 ). The incarnation was an indispensable means for sanctifying humanity because it was necessary that the sanctifier be from within humanity ( Heb 2:11 ). Christ's sacrificial offering of himself to God achieved comprehensive sanctification for all people ( Hebrews 10:10 Hebrews 10:14 Hebrews 10:29 ; 13:12 ). In addition, the return of Christ will mark the beginning of remade heaven and earth ( 2 Peter 3:10-13 ).

What is Sanctification? Bible Definition and Meaning
So if they were perfected forever by Christ dying for them and Christ died for them before they were born, then quite naturally they were born already perfected forever.
 

Renniks

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I didn't insult you .. I just defined a term.. if you fit this term .. not my fault. If you wish to debate the definition of term .. sure.. I see you have started.

" The basic facts" you say .. specific details about what Jesus claimed with respect to Genesis .. sure .. like everyone knows this .. and can recite chapter and verse.. ..

you insult yourself ... you throw out insults .. and then project your actions onto others when called out on your actions.. as I have done.
Again: Still have no idea what you're talking about. What is my system of justice? Why would children be killed for parents sins? How and where is God changing? He changed tactics but not who he is. That's his perogative.

You never answer anything.
 

brightfame52

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BTW Heb 10:14 means eternal security for all for whom Christ died. There's no time in their lives when they are not perfected forever!
 
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Heyzeus

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That is not what I have claimed.

I rarely hear voices any more....but beware lest you cross the line and blaspheme the Holy Ghost....attributing what is of the Holy Ghost to demons.

Yes .. indeed it was what you claimed .. you started out saying "that wasn't in Greece .. it was in Turkey" .. Claiming that Thessalonians and Corinthians were not Greek peoples.

When your error became obvious .. you tried a bait and switch claiming "it was the Roman Empire" - as if this changed the fact that the Churches of the Thessalonians - as with the others ... were Greek peoples and that the Orthodox Church in Greece date back to this time period and was founded by Paul.

That the Greek Orthodox Church was founded by Paul .. was my claim right from the beginning - one which you have been trying to deny.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Heb 10:14 make u sick
What you think Hebrews 10:14 implies is what makes me sick. These weird far fetched interpretations of the Bible and Christianity makes me sick of Christianity. The anchor of my soul, though, is that I know my sins have been forgiven and I won't give that up no matter how much men ruin Christianity with their teachings. It's hard to not have these teachings nibble away at my faith, but I have forgiveness and deliverance from sin and sin guilt holding me fast to the real truth despite these ramblings of men.
 
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Ferris Bueller

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Again: Still have no idea what you're talking about. What is my system of justice? Why would children be killed for parents sins? How and where is God changing? He changed tactics but not who he is. That's his perogative.

You never answer anything.
EVERYTHING dies at some time or another at the Lord's choosing. It's just that sometimes things die as the consequence of someone else's stupidity. God allows that. That's different than someone dying guilty in their sin and then imputing that guilt to someone else by reason of relationship so that they should die guilty for that sin too.
 

Ferris Bueller

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Yes .. indeed it was what you claimed .. you started out saying "that wasn't in Greece .. it was in Turkey" .. Claiming that Thessalonians and Corinthians were not Greek peoples.

When your error became obvious .. you tried a bait and switch claiming "it was the Roman Empire" - as if this changed the fact that the Churches of the Thessalonians - as with the others ... were Greek peoples and that the Orthodox Church in Greece date back to this time period and was founded by Paul.

That the Greek Orthodox Church was founded by Paul .. was my claim right from the beginning - one which you have been trying to deny.
We were all blown away when Hank Hanagraff left the Protestant church for the Greek Orthodox Church but I kind of see why now. In his extensive learning I think he saw the flawed theologies of the Protestants and couldn't honestly defend them anymore. I'm just speculating.