The Elect?

[bbyrd009]

Election is easy to understand; it is the accepting of Biblical election that causes people to invent their own terms.

Election is God's sovereign choosing of those who will make up His people, not based on foreseen faith [that would be works righteousness; that the only reason God chose you and not another is because of something within you. That then makes this 'something within you' the reason for your salvation, not God. All God did in this case was look inside and see that you are better than others.] But rather, election is based on nothing more than the Will and good pleasure of God.

Yet the sins of the whole world are atoned for, and we cannot Quote "God will change you mind for you" nor "Jesus will pick up your cross for you" anywhere, right. So I would contemplate how your words will fail you, even if they might be made to be true in a narrow sense wadr.
"...few there are who find it"

 

[Mjh29]

Yet the sins of the whole world are atoned for, and we cannot Quote "God will change you mind for you" nor "Jesus will pick up your cross for you" anywhere, right. So I would contemplate how your words will fail you, even if they might be made to be true in a narrow sense wadr.
"...few there are who find it"

Oh, so Jesus died for every sin of every man?

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh, so Jesus died for every sin of every man?

1 John 2:2 Lexicon: and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Iow all are forgiven, forgiveness does not "save" anyone

 

[CoreIssue]

1 John 2:2 Lexicon: and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Iow all are forgiven, forgiveness does not "save" anyone

If one reaches out to save everyone in trouble it does not mean anyone will take their hand.

 

[bbyrd009]

If one reaches out to save everyone in trouble it does not mean anyone will take their hand.

Ah wadr I would be cutting that hand off myself

 

[CoreIssue]

Ah wadr I would be cutting that hand off myself

I believe it.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe it.

Lol :)

just put yourself in their place I guess, really not a puzzle imo.
How might ones right hand offend them otherwise?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

A humble person (the kind that God gives grace to) would not consider himself/herself to be part of the elect. God sees the future and knows His own. Our job is to depart from iniquity. But how far are we really able to depart from that which is offensive to God?

We need God's help every step of the way. Without Him we can do nothing.

The race is still in progress. Run to win!

Not quite true though partially.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 talks about knowing. 1 John 5:13 does as well.

The text in 2 Timothy 2 you allude to is a descriptive text, describing those who belong to God, that they do depart from iniquity. There is also Hebrews 12:14 showing evidence of conversion. There are evidences of conversion, and not, and assurance of salvation throughout Scripture.

Your response paints a picture of having to do to earn heaven, that is at the least how it comes across, whether intentional or not. We are not earning salvation as we go along, we either make evidences thereof, or not. That is, of already being elect/saved.

Knowing our salvation is not arrogance or a lack of humility when we know it is all of God.

 

[Helen]

1 John 2:2 Lexicon: and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Iow all are forgiven, forgiveness does not "save" anyone

That sounds very RC to me..so in court I am forgiven, cleared, and declared not guilty...but then, I am not really forgiven, ( ?) and I am still guilty?
How so????

...

 

[Taken]

In response to the suggestion by my dear old friend @"ByGrace" I have started this thread based on these questions:

Yes, and then comes the question again of just who exactly are the elect...
and how are they selected?

The ELECT ?

I would say, the ELECT are those Called to Believe and Responded to the Call...
And have Become "made whole";
body, soul, spirit

Were they really preselected as some apparently believe?

Preselected?

I would say, PRE-Known, by God and their fate PRE-Pared.

Glory to God,
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

The problem with your understanding of election is that God elected believers to be holy, not because they were holy. It is beyond the capacity of the flesh to even discern Christ, much less embrace and believe in him. This all takes salvation by grace.

Dave,

You are clearly confused about this matter. God elected those who would believe on His Son and receive Him as Lord and Savior to be conformed to the image of Christ -- perfected. Therefore believers are commanded to be holy in this life. And at the Resurrection/Rapture they will fully be perfected.

Yes salvation is indeed by grace THROUGH FAITH. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the flesh. The preaching of the Gospel is to show sinners that the flesh is at enmity to God. Therefore all men everywhere are commanded to repent.

 

[Dave L]

Dave,

You are clearly confused about this matter. God elected those who would believe on His Son and receive Him as Lord and Savior to be conformed to the image of Christ -- perfected. Therefore believers are commanded to be holy in this life. And at the Resurrection/Rapture they will fully be perfected.

Yes salvation is indeed by grace THROUGH FAITH. Which has absolutely nothing to do with the flesh. The preaching of the Gospel is to show sinners that the flesh is at enmity to God. Therefore all men everywhere are commanded to repent.

This is totally false. It means God saves the self-righteous who share in his glory. Because they are good and make choices accordingly. It also depicts God as a bully who bribes the self-righteous with rewards for obedience, while threatening them with eternal torture for saying no.

It is the most loused up version of Christianity the world has ever seen. And you will not find a more false representation of God anywhere.

 

[Episkopos]

Not quite true though partially.

1 Thessalonians 1:4 talks about knowing. 1 John 5:13 does as well.

The text in 2 Timothy 2 you allude to is a descriptive text, describing those who belong to God, that they do depart from iniquity. There is also Hebrews 12:14 showing evidence of conversion. There are evidences of conversion, and not, and assurance of salvation throughout Scripture.

Your response paints a picture of having to do to earn heaven, that is at the least how it comes across, whether intentional or not. We are not earning salvation as we go along, we either make evidences thereof, or not. That is, of already being elect/saved.

Knowing our salvation is not arrogance or a lack of humility when we know it is all of God.

We are learning from God...being fashioned into His image...which requires migration, transition, transformation. You see a saved status...which is presently passed off as modern doctrine. But it is false. We don't need assurance. We need the living God.

And Paul says LET those who name the Lord depart from iniquity...as in we should do this. But you see response, love and obedience from us as works. Such is your indoctrination from men. It really muddies the water to a good understanding.

 

[Episkopos]

We are free to do as we wish. We need to come to a place of surrender to say...NOT my will but your will be done. Even Jesus learned that. Is that works salvation? Only to the dogmatic and misinformed.

 

[Dave L]

We are free to do as we wish. We need to come to a place of surrender to say...NOT my will but your will be done. Even Jesus learned that. Is that works salvation? Only to the dogmatic and misinformed.

You can only say "not my will but thine" in repentance. And God must first save you before you can repent.

 

[Episkopos]

You can only say "not my will but thine" in repentance. And God must first save you before you can repent.

Sounds like a human formula based on a dogma. God is not limited to your human ideas of how things work.

When Abraham believed God....was it because he was already saved? You will be dogmatic and say yes...and fully miss the mystery of God's relationship with mankind.

 

[Dave L]

Sounds like a human formula based on a dogma. God is not limited to your human ideas of how things work.

You must be saved before you can repent. The flesh does not want to repent and fights it every step of the way in even the best saints. Take away the Holy Spirit and repentance is impossible.

 

[Episkopos]

You must be saved before you can repent. The flesh does not want to repent and fights it every step of the way in even the best saints. Take away the Holy Spirit and repentance is impossible.

Without God no one can breathe either. So?

 

[bbyrd009]

That sounds very RC to me..so in court I am forgiven, cleared, and declared not guilty...but then, I am not really forgiven, ( ?) and I am still guilty?
How so????

...View attachment 5686

who said "not really forgiven?" I said "no more forgiven than anyone else" and "forgiveness will not save you"

 

[Dave L]

Without God no one can breathe either. So?

Nor can they "will".