The Cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

[APAK]

I'm getting back to your OP @Wrangler and the context you defined in it.

Let me add to the post I gave much earlier, about who I think are cult religions, or beliefs. Let me expound on the mind control feature exclusively.

Here's a first cut of a chart of some of the major religions, not philosophies, I spoke about before, and what seems to cover many people on this site. On the the extreme for mind control is the Orthodox Muslim religion, and on the right, the undetectable side, I have the Biblical Unitarians /Christadelphians who do not even have a formal religious structure. They volunteer to house cell groups in homes and other spaces. They are strained to even want to write down names phone numbers and addresses for membership purposes. They come and go at will. And many are on independent, single and group missions in local areas lying low in the background or overseas. They don't carry their belief titles on any tee-shirt or have any formal identification.

Here's the chart I just created and I hope it is readable...

 

[Wrangler]

Interesting. I wonder what the specifics are to place the denominations along the spectrum shown?

 

[Happy Trails]

1st, I have to say that I have a lot of respect for JW's that I have met in person and in this forum.

2nd, this question or accusation comes up in many threads and I thought I'd flush it out and by using a poll. If it is not true, why do so many here, and former members call JW a cult?

3rd, according to the urban dictionary, the defining characteristic of a cult, compared to a religious group is control over its members.

A cult (also referred to as a high control or high demand group) is any organization whose leadership uses mind control on its followers. This applies regardless of the organization's size, beliefs, practices, tax-exempt status, or where its members live and work. Cults can be religious or secular. Cult leadership can consist of one person, two people, or multiple people.
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4th, opinions about the controlling nature of JW's is not meant as critique of their theology. This thread is NOT about debating the JW theology! JW have Freedom of Religion just like everyone else . The scope of this thread is only about the cult aspects of the organization and not its theological doctrines.

5th, my daughter's in-laws have been devasted by the cult aspect of JW. My SIL suffers badly today from an inability to think independently and critically and my 1 year old granddaughter is at grave risk. More details to follow.

They may be a cult. But, what they teach is no more heretical than most other mainstream denominations. If it turns out that Michael IS Jesus, are all the people that didn't believe that going to the Lake of Fire?

Mainstream Christianity is LOADED with its OWN heresy problems. Any denomination challenging another's godliness is silliness on steroids.

 

[Wrangler]

They may be a cult. But

Well, that is really the only point of this thread; are the JW a cult? The poll shows 2:1, the answer is yes.

I'm not sure what the 'but' is since POINT #4 of the OP is not about doctrines, heretical or not, beyond your proclamation of what is silliness on steroids. The question is not about their godliness but their cult tactics.

 

[Happy Trails]

Well, that is really the only point of this thread; are the JW a cult? The poll shows 2:1, the answer is yes.

I'm not sure what the 'but' is since POINT #4 of the OP is not about doctrines, heretical or not, beyond your proclamation of what is silliness on steroids. The question is not about their godliness but their cult tactics.

They definitely use cult tactics. In my opinion, it is likely a cult. I have had conversations with people who escaped. But, is it their doctrine that makes them a cult, or how they treat people? I would have a hard time differentiating.

 

[Stan B]

They may be a cult. But, what they teach is no more heretical than most other mainstream denominations. If it turns out that Michael IS Jesus, are all the people that didn't believe that going to the Lake of Fire?

I would not call JW a denomination. A denomination of what? They certainly have nothing in common with Christianity.

 

[APAK]

Interesting. I wonder what the specifics are to place the denominations along the spectrum shown?

Well this is a view strictly subjective and without any formal research to claim or back it up, as if that were possible anyway.

Cult - mind-control is the view of the chart only; the main ingredient actually of any cult, religious, political or just social. And this is only through my experiences and I've had direct contact or participation in over half of them, and these are my 1st cut findings.

I did give a brief insight to the insignificance of any passive or active short term, or long term mind control of the BUs and Christos in my previous post.

One thing set in my mind was the long term passive mind-control techniques and processes of religious organizations that most folks do not consider. Military folks and such will tell you that this is the most penetrating, devastating and the most deceptive, this subtle constant drum of indoctrination that most are not conscious of as members. This is why the RCs are higher on the chart because of this type of mind control process, as an example.

I see nearly every one could not resist crossing the line over to not just addressing the concept and your definition of mind-control but putting the throttle down on the things and symbols behind them and what they were and meant. Things and processes that actually control and program and fill the mind. They are closely linked, although attention to detail is required.

 

[Happy Trails]

I would not call JW a denomination. A denomination of what? They certainly have nothing in common with Christianity.

I will take the blame for misstating my original thought and, inadvertently, hijacking the thread.

My apologies.

The TP regarded "cult behavior" and warned he did not want to make it a theological discussion. The point I made rather clumsily is that I didn't think their theology was the big issue. I have some doctrinal issues with them. But, as some folks like to say, "none of them are issues of salvation."

I'm curious about what they teach that makes them any less Christian than any other Christian.

Are they any less saved than any other Christian?

Having said that, if you wanted to start a new thread about that, great. I didn't mean to change Wrangler's topic, and would gladly take it somewhere else.

 

[amadeus]

I'm getting back to your OP @Wrangler and the context you defined in it.

Let me add to the post I gave much earlier, about who I think are cult religions, or beliefs. Let me expound on the mind control feature exclusively.

Here's a first cut of a chart of some of the major religions, not philosophies, I spoke about before, and what seems to cover many people on this site. On the the extreme for mind control is the Orthodox Muslim religion, and on the right, the undetectable side, I have the Biblical Unitarians /Christadelphians who do not even have a formal religious structure. They volunteer to house cell groups in homes and other spaces. They are strained to even want to write down names phone numbers and addresses for membership purposes. They come and go at will. And many are on independent, single and group missions in local areas lying low in the background or overseas. They don't carry their belief titles on any tee-shirt or have any formal identification.

Here's the chart I just created and I hope it is readable...

View attachment 22592

A very interesting chart, my friend. I have been Catholic and a form of Pentecostal but also... in my earlier years on forums I belonged to an Internet forum operated by the Christadelphians. I got along well with them as long I obeyed the forum rules.

To actually join the Christadelphians, a person must take a pass a test, a Bible test before they would baptize him in water. They offered intensive training and instructions to anyone interested. I could never have passed the test because while they were strongly Bible oriented, no confessing tongue talkers were allowed.

Other than that, and few other minor [to me] details, I agreed with much of what they believed. Only one of the many members took serious issue with me being allowed to remain a member of the forum. Almost all of the others were very tolerant so long as I discussed any differences respectfully.

I would not name them as a "cult" but then, I don't name any group in my experience with that label.

 

[Stan B]

I will take the blame for misstating my original thought and, inadvertently, hijacking the thread.

My apologies.

The TP regarded "cult behavior" and warned he did not want to make it a theological discussion. The point I made rather clumsily is that I didn't think their theology was the big issue. I have some doctrinal issues with them. But, as some folks like to say, "none of them are issues of salvation."

I'm curious about what they teach that makes them any less Christian than any other Christian.

Are they any less saved than any other Christian?

Having said that, if you wanted to start a new thread about that, great. I didn't mean to change Wrangler's topic, and would gladly take it somewhere else.

I covered some of that in message #36.

 

[Stan B]

Having said that, if you wanted to start a new thread about that, great. I didn't mean to change Wrangler's topic, and would gladly take it somewhere else.

Not worth the effort. I have read a lot of the stuff they feed their JWs, and in all fairness it reads like whoever wrote it really high on drugs and in a dense fog. Nothing remotely connected with Christianity.

 

[Stan B]

To actually join the Christadelphians, a person must take a pass a test, a Bible test before they would baptize him in water. They offered intensive training and instructions to anyone interested. I could never have passed the test because while they were strongly Bible oriented, no confessing tongue talkers were allowed.

I had a similar experience with the Pentecostal cult. I was asked to sign a membership form,, confirming the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was evidenced by speaking in tongues. So most of my family and friends are a bunch of heathens. <giggle>

 

[EloyCraft]

I'm sorry, I feel obligated to defend the word 'cult'.

Once the true meaning of a word is lost the language it belongs to may lose the ability to express the subtleties attached to it. The entire language suffers.

When a word is hijacked to describe something it doesn't mean, its meaning is invariably reduced to describe something that any monosyllabic combination of letters could be used to fully symbolize. But the nuance and subtleties developed over generations of a hijacked word like cult is forever lost.

Like the word 'gay' no longer describes a pleasant state of mind but a sexual behavior. Now the subtleties of that word aren't available and writers must seek alternatives that may not exist.

The word cult no longer describes a group of people united in their form of worship( whatever that may be) but describes a group of people that are deceived and controlled by their form of worship.

It's not difficult to distinguish the good from the bad forms. There are influences that are bound to spiritual growth as well as worldly desires that can make particular cults seem more or less manipulated by their religious teaching and leaders. That may be controlling manipulation or an expression of authentic faith. Anyone who is responsible for the spiritual growth of a congregation can attest to the subtleties involved in differentiating the act of feeding souls and the act of controlling them.

In the beginning Christianity had the appearance of a controlling will stealing cult. But that's only because controlling will stealing cults purposely create environments that imitate that environment as a tool to intensify the bonds that unite it's members.

Odd novel beliefs are effective tools to distinguish the members of a cult and unite them in the bonds formed by the persecution of shared beliefs.

Christians were accused of canabalism and suffered periods of persecution but for Christians that wasnt due to radical nonconformity but for the presentation of a higher good that threatened the prevailing ruling powers.

The cult of Christians is indeed a light upon a hill that presents Christ's gifts of freedom to human society.

Not so with cults designed to make the will it's captive. They tend to be accusatory of the institutions that promote freedom and structure successful societies.

 

[JohnPaul]

They may be a cult. But, what they teach is no more heretical than most other mainstream denominations. If it turns out that Michael IS Jesus, are all the people that didn't believe that going to the Lake of Fire?

Mainstream Christianity is LOADED with its OWN heresy problems. Any denomination challenging another's godliness is silliness on steroids.

How are they a cult, please explain.

 

[amadeus]

I had a similar experience with the Pentecostal cult. I was asked to sign a membership form,, confirming the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was evidenced by speaking in tongues. So most of my family and friends are a bunch of heathens. <giggle>

The Pentecostal church where I met the Lord had no membership forms... at least not written ones. While I did have some very good experiences with there, ... I would not recommend that assembly, as it was, to anyone.

 

[Happy Trails]

How are they a cult, please explain.

C'mon, man! Everyone has heard the horror stories of trying to leave, or being shunned, or being the victim of sexual abuse that does not get reported. The fear instilled with convincing its members that they cannot be saved without "the Organization" is nothing short of psychological intimidation, if not terrorism.

I was being kind when I said, "They may be a cult."

If you want some dirty laundry aired in this forum, just ask.

 

[JohnPaul]

C'mon, man! Everyone has heard the horror stories of trying to leave, or being shunned, or being the victim of sexual abuse that does not get reported. The fear instilled with convincing its members that they cannot be saved without "the Organization" is nothing short of psychological intimidation, if not terrorism.

I was being kind when I said, "They may be a cult."

If you want some dirty laundry aired in this forum, just ask.

What you just said is everywhere, so that means everyone is in a cult, according to your logic.

 

[Daniel777]

I do in the fact they deny the deity of Christ and have a salvation based upon works .

Agree. The #1 characteristic of a cult is the denial of Jesus as God. Having said that, there are SOME organizations/churches who claim to accept Jesus as God, but have some very controlling, unorthodox cult-like practices.

 

[JohnPaul]

Agree. The #1 characteristic of a cult is the denial of Jesus as God. Having said that, there are SOME organizations/churches who claim to accept Jesus as God, but have some very controlling, unorthodox cult-like practices.

The number 1 characteristic of a cult is living on a compound and not being able to leave or see your family.

Jim Jones and David Koresh both believed in Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

What you just said is everywhere, so that means everyone is in a cult, according to your logic.

I think you are confusing institutional rules from personal exceptions.