The Cult of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

[Bob Estey]

Let's stick to the OP topic of whether or not JW is a cult.

You asked me, "Knocking on doors is works, isn't it?"
And I replied, "Is works a bad thing?"
And you said, "Let's stick to the OP topic of whether or not JW is a cult."
Didn't you want me to answer your question?

 

[Bob Estey]

Let's stick to the OP topic of whether or not JW is a cult.

If you're going to ask me a question, then you shouldn't criticize me for answering it, should you?

 

[Wrangler]

If you're going to ask me a question, then you shouldn't criticize me for answering it, should you?

Bob, consider the possibility that you have taken my questions out of context.

4th, opinions about the controlling nature of JW's is not meant as critique of their theology. This thread is NOT about debating the JW theology! JW have Freedom of Religion just like everyone else . The scope of this thread is only about the cult aspects of the organization and not its theological doctrines.

Someone else mentioned a work based point system as a means of control. It is in this context that my question was made, not to violate POINT #4 of the OP. Thanks!

 

[Bob Estey]

Bob, consider the possibility that you have taken my questions out of context.



Someone else mentioned a work based point system as a means of control. It is in this context that my question was made, not to violate POINT #4 of the OP. Thanks!

I try to answer questions at face value.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

It is nice to see that Trinitarians can unite and work together with a Unitarian on something. ;)

Note: I’ve taken the stand against these types of threads as they aren’t productive and bring no one to Christ. And I’m not a JW and passionately disagree with JW beliefs.

 

[Stan B]

Ouch!
I wish God's children could show more grace to one another than that.

Maybe my sword needs sharpening, and following Jesus' example:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness."

Is that a better approach??

 

[Cassandra]

Oh goodness!
I met a JW while outside my apt years ago. She had just stopped by another's home, giving her a badly needed box of clothes. That was so kind of her, i thought, and said that. We started talking and since ! love to study the Bible, I was fine with her coming by and studying.

We studied for awhile, and when we got up to the chapter after the state of the dead (which i agreed with, mostly) I went to Kingdom Hall with her once (just to go) but didn't return. I saw her off and on after that, and every time she saw me she would either give me an Awake or a Watchtower magazine. I also had the NWT, and Interlinear, and a book called " All scripture is Inspired..." (Still have the interlinear and the All Scripture book)

I moved away and haven't seen her in years. I can't remember her last name (I can't remember a lot of things ) but I loved her and always felt she was a sister in Christ. If i make it to the kingdom, I have no doubt in my mind that she will be there.

God bless you, Kathy , wherever you are!!!!!

 

[Wrangler]

I try to answer questions at face value.

Try answering questions in their proper context. :cool:

 

[Bob Estey]

Try answering questions in their proper context. :cool:

Then make the context clear.

 

[Wrangler]

Then make the context clear.

I did make the context clear. See OP, Point #4.

 

[Bob Estey]

I did make the context clear. See OP, Point #4.

I was just responding to your post. If you want to keep within the original context, don't stray from it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Post #2 details a lot of pressure put on performance. I think you call it discipline of those ostracized.

The horror stories are a dime a dozen on the internet....suffice to say, that one side of a story or the way it is perceived by others, is not the whole truth. So unless we hear the other side, the ‘jury’ is without half of the evidence it needs to make a fair decision. To judge on one side of a story is why we have courts who must hear both testimonies. Those who judge without all the facts will receive the same judgment themselves. Is that what you would want? To be judged without all the facts? (Matthew 7:2)

The way something is perceived is not always the way it is, if all the facts are not known.
Disfellowshipping is a last resort, only taken when all other avenues are closed.

Jehovah’s Witnesses discipline wrongdoers as the scriptures command.
Hebrews12:5-7,11 (NLT)
“And have you forgotten the encouraging words God spoke to you as his children? He said, “My child, don’t make light of the Lord’s discipline, and don’t give up when he corrects you. For the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child.” As you endure this divine discipline, remember that God is treating you as his own children. Who ever heard of a child who is never disciplined by its father? . . . .No discipline is enjoyable while it is happening—it’s painful! But afterward there will be a peaceful harvest of right living for those who are trained in this way.”

The elders are under God’s authority to administer appropriate discipline if Bible laws and principles are violated.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (NLT)
“When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

2 John 1:10-11 (NLT)
“If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don’t invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement. Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work.”

Those two principles are followed by us and we make no apology for administering God’s directive.

When we are baptised, we make a vow to God to uphold his truth and to follow through on the Bible’s teachings in all aspects of our lives. No one is forced or coerced into baptism, but we are aware of making a serious commitment to God, not unlike the commitment we make to a marriage mate at our wedding. To break that vow and end the marriage requires a legal divorce. If the person was guilty of wrongdoing or a violation of the principles mentioned in the scriptures above, and there is no repentance, our elders are left with no choice but to disfellowship.....this is known before we take the step of baptism.

I can only see from your post, one side of the story and I’m sure the family is hurt by the situation...it is something that distresses the whole congregation who are always devastated by hearing news that a brother or sister has been disfellowshipped.......but at the end of the day, who caused all that pain? Blaming someone else for what you did yourself is what Adam and his wife did....
The door is always open for the erring one to return and a great many have and are welcomed back into the congregation. They accepted the discipline and like the prodigal son, were chastened by the experience.

We all have to accept responsibility for what we do ourselves. If we know the rules before we take the step to violate them, why blame the ones enforcing them?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The horror stories are a dime a dozen on the internet....suffice to say, that one side of a story or the way it is perceived by others, is not the whole truth. So unless we hear the other side, the ‘jury’ is without half of the evidence it needs to make a fair decision. To judge on one side of a story is why we have courts who must hear both testimonies. Those who judge without all the facts will receive the same judgment themselves. Is that what you would want? To be judged without all the facts? (Matthew 7:2)

The way something is perceived is not always the way it is, if all the facts are not known.
Disfellowshipping is a last resort, only taken when all other avenues are closed.

Jehovah’s Witnesses discipline wrongdoers as the scriptures command.

@Aunty Jane , if "Sally" a Protestant becomes a JW as is shunned by her family for it, do you praise that family for doing the scriptural thing?
Or do you cite 5:10-12 about Sally about how Sally is blessed for persecuted for righteounous sake?

 

[Wrangler]

I was just responding to your post. If you want to keep within the original context, don't stray from it.

Odd how you keep telling me my responsibilities in my thread but you seem to have none.

 

[Bob Estey]

Odd how you keep telling me my responsibilities in my thread but you seem to have none.

If you say something to me, allow me to respond.

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Aunty Jane , if "Sally" a Protestant becomes a JW as is shunned by her family for it, do you praise that family for doing the scriptural thing?
Or do you cite 5:10-12 about Sally about how Sally is blessed for persecuted for righteounous sake?

When we choose a course, we choose the repercussions. What others do is their business. It’s about pleasing God, not family members, whom Jesus said could become our worst enemies. (Matthew 10:34-36)
We choose what is in our heart and God sees and judges us appropriately.

 

[Wrangler]

The horror stories are a dime a dozen on the internet....suffice to say, that one side of a story or the way it is perceived by others, is not the whole truth.

That you have to respond with multiple long paragraphs shows how you are attempting to skirt the truth presented. He was not allowed to peacefully leave the organization. They not only harassed him, they used his own family to do it!

His own parents remain a pawn of the abuse.

I don’t think you can credibly claim JW are rightfully ‘disciplining’ AND claim the whole truth is known.

I am a witness to the JW organization tearing apart a good family. Even my SIL’s grandmother was harassed and manipulated for years. One half of the family is supposedly ostracized from the other half.

The are depressed, suicidal, disillusioned, ashamed (of letting themselves be victimized and manipulated, guilted and shamed). Family gatherings turn into spontaneous grieving sessions, YEARS after they left the cult. The JW victims now want NOTHING to do with religion, church, Christ or God. Good job, ‘Jay-Dub’ (the term my SIL uses).

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Aunty Jane , if "Sally" a Protestant becomes a JW as is shunned by her family for it, do you praise that family for doing the scriptural thing?
Or do you cite 5:10-12 about Sally about how Sally is blessed for persecuted for righteounous sake?

When we choose a course, we choose the repercussions. What others do is their business. It’s about pleasing God, not family members, whom Jesus said could become our worst enemies. (Matthew 10:34-36)
We choose what is in our heart and God sees and judges us appropriately.

I'm sorry, but for me to take any stance seriously, it must be used consistently.
In post #53, you praised shunning as being the Biblical thing to do. And yet, despite my very specific question, you didn't offer such praised for a family that shuns a person joins the JW. That's an inconstant stance.

 

[Wrangler]

If we know the rules before we take the step to violate them, why blame the ones enforcing them?

I’m glad you asked. There is a self-righteousness in your post, void of love and void of grace. The cult meters out revenge while calling it ‘discipline’ in violation of The Rules For Christian Living:
17 Do not retaliate with evil, regardless of the evil brought against you. Try to do what is good and right and honorable as agreed upon by all people. 18 If it is within your power, make peace with all people. 19 Again, my loved ones, do not seek revenge; instead, allow God’s wrath to make sure justice is served. Turn it over to Him. For the Scriptures say, “Revenge is Mine. I will settle all scores.” 20 But consider this bit of wisdom: “If your enemy is hungry, give him something to eat. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink; because if you treat him kindly, it will be like heaping hot coals on top of his head.”
Romans 12:17-20

My SIL tolerated all the vengeance from these God fearing ‘disciplinarians’ he could and sought escape and freedom. The couldn’t let go of the control they had over him and his family. NOTE: Scripture reads ‘do not seek revenge; instead, allow God’s wrath to make sure justice is served. Turn it over to Him.’ It does not read ‘turn it over to the ones enforcing the rules in the organization.’

Consequently, they made things MUCH worse and that is why we should blame the ones making the JW organization a cult.

I hope this answers your question
.

 

[EloyCraft]

I have a personal experience to post on this.
Someone close to me died and their 'significant other' ended up staying at my house for a while. She was born into and married to what she called 'pioneer' level members of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. She was also excommunicated for not accepting the organizations judgement about her husband's infidelity.
She had many questions about the afterlife having just lost a spouse of several years. (not her JW husband.)
The odd thing about what happened is that in the end she no longer believed what she learned from her former religion. I asked her if it was because of our discussions. She said she believes what she learned from me. Here's the kicker. Even though she could no longer believe what they teach is true there was no way she could not be a JW.

A cult is simply a group of people who worhip the same thing in the same way.
A bad cult will teach a radical 'us vs. them' identity. There will be ideas and behaviors that enhance that separation. The same are designed to elicit persecution. A bad cult will not be persecuted for doing good things like Jesus did or for opposing evil, but for disregarding the good already established in the society in which they live.
That creates a dynamic that feeds the us verses them dynamic.