A lot of things happened AFTER the resurrection and glorious ascension of our Lord Lizbeth-with your scripture references on Luke warmness and running this race-all we need to do is going to Matt 25 and the 4 types of soil--putting the Scriptures and the Imperatives into daily action is a great remedy against "becoming lukewarm" and WILL run this race, with all our nerves strained-casting away all impediments that so easily cause us to stumble-our eyes on Christ Jesus, and Him alone, don't doubt-anything not of, out of faith is sin.
The Crucified Flesh
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Bless you brother......you are joshing me......I don't know if I might sound good in writing sometimes, by the grace of God, but feet on the ground I would take a back seat to you and a lot of others any day. :) And you might have insight that I am missing, so please do point out and correct me if I'm using verses in a way that doesn't agree with the context.
As it happens I have talked to some former believers turned atheists on-line and the ones I ran into are so bitter and nasty, hearts of granite, and actively working against the Lord and worse than regular atheists. Though I can't say for sure if their faith had been genuine to begin with, or not. Just that I don't know why else they would be worse than regular atheists who never knew the Lord, who are often bad enough.
But referring to that believer you are talking about who is turning from Christ to Judaism, do you believe that falling away from grace means reverting to a lost condition? Thinking of this verse :
Gal 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Somehow I don't think this is what our sister described her 2Aorist experience @Keturah but if it was "like a bolt of lightning" to her, who are we to condemn the work of the Holy Spirit wrought within our sister?
or am I misunderstanding you?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Brother, if you read my last post..the bolt of lightning wasn’t literal.LOL..HaHa...hopefully I explained it better in that last post.
When God speaks to your spirit through the Holy Spirit...it’s breathtakingly Powerful...yet oh so gentle as well...hence the Lords word was like a bolt of lightning..as in power..there could never be any mistaking His Word.....hope that clears any misunderstanding up.
.....but it's talking about believers who keep on sinning wilfully being judged with the same judgement as the adversaries....? In other words, not even Jesus' sacrifice will be applied to them.
No, the Lord was telling the angel/messsenger to write.....then the ensuing message that the messenger wrote was being addressed to that church. (If I'm understanding you correctlyl..?)
Once enlightened, Jesus is the true light coming into the world that enlightens every man. He came an taught them, and revealed His Own life. Tasted of the heavenly gift (received the healings, the deliverances), shared in the Holy Spirit (the 12, the 70, sent out with power), tasted the good word of God (experienced Jesus), the power of the world to come (signs and wonders), all these which can describe those who were there to be a part of Jesus' ministry.
In the same way is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, to claim that the spirit behind Jesus' miracles was an unclean spirit, so as to deny the testimony of Jesus' works. This is something the Pharisees were doing. Like John wrote, first saying, And they believed not, and then saying, So they could not believe.
The fact is that if this passage were speaking of the regenerate, the child of God, the saint, or any of the other ways we are described, though those terms are not used, if it were speaking of us then you get one shot and that's it. If you fall away, you're "one and done", and there is no return.
And the writer goes on to talk about the different soils, that which bears fruit, and that which bears thorns and thistles, that which is approved of God, and what is reprobate, that is, rejected after testing, just as in the parable of the Sower.
Much love!
No need to take back-seat Lizbeth-you ask valid questions--
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
"Behold I, Paul, say to you"
NKJV "Indeed I, Paul, say to you"
NRSV "Listen! I, Paul, am telling you"
TEV "Listen! I, Paul, tell you this"
NJB "It is I, Paul, who tells you this"
This is the IMPERATIVE form of "behold" with the strong, PERSONAL PRONOUN (egō). "I, Paul" shows the authoritative emphasis of Paul's remarks. Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, is giving revelatory information!
NASB "that if you receive circumcision"
NKJV "that if you become circumcised"
NRSV "that if you let yourselves be circumcised"
TEV, NJB "if you allow yourselves to be circumcised"
This is a THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE meaning potential action. This would suggest that the Galatian Christians had not yet been circumcised but were tending to submit to the new prerequisites for obtaining salvation (or at least perfection, cf. Gal. 3:1) given by the Judaizers.
Yet circumcision was not the fundamental issue (cf. Gal. 5:6; 1 Cor. 7:18-19). Circumcision was only one aspect of the entire Jewish system of works righteousness. Paul circumcised Timothy in Acts 16:3 in order that he might minister to Jews. But Paul reiterated that true circumcision is of the heart (cf. Deut. 10:16; Jer. 4:4), not the body (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Col. 2:11). The issue was not circumcision but how a person is brought into right standing with God (cf. Gal. 5:4).
"Christ will be of no benefit to you" Paul is contrasting two ways of being right with God:
human effort
free grace
The theme of the entire paragraph is that these two ways are mutually exclusive: to choose human effort is to negate free grace; to choose free grace is to exclude human effort. One cannot mix them as a basis of salvation as Gal. 3:1-5 clearly shows.
5:3 "he is under obligation to keep the whole Law" If one chooses the way of human effort, then he must adhere perfectly to the Law from the age of moral responsibility (bar-mitzvah, age 13 for boys, bath-mitzvah, age 12 for girls) to death (cf. Deut. 27:26; Gal. 3:10; James 2:10). The Bible asserts that since no one has ever done this (except Jesus), everyone is in the category of law breakers, sinners (cf. Rom. 3:9-18,22-23; 6:23; 5:8 and 11:32).
5:4
NASB "You have been severed from Christ"
NKJV "You have become estranged from Christ"
NRSV "You. . .have cut yourselves off from Christ"
TEV "have cut yourselves off from Christ"
NJB "you have separated yourselves from Christ"
Peshitta "You have ceased to adhere to Christ"
This Greek VERB (an AORIST PASSIVE INDICATIVE of katargeō) is translated in many ways:
to render useless
to render powerless
to render unproductive
unprofitable
empty
cancel
make null and void
bring to an end
annihilate
sever from
It was used by Paul more than twenty times. One can see some of its flavor from Gal. 3:17 (to abolish) and 5:11 (to annul). If one tries to be right with God through human effort, he/she cuts himself/herself off from grace righteousness as a means of salvation (cf. Gal. 5:12):
in an initial salvation (when the Galatians first received the gospel)
in a works-oriented life (when the Galatians were thinking of now pursuing the Mosaic Law)
Pretty self explanatory, I think sister-we have many genuine believers, becoming disheartened-and wolves are there to lure them the easy way in-which is not easy-into the gates of Judaism, a problem in Paul's days-a problem now.
I believe the elect in God's eyes are those who He foreknows will remain in Him and endure to the end. Why is it so necessary to do battle with the lies and deceptions that are preached and taught by false shepherds if that poses no danger to the flock? Paul was constantly battling.....and he said that after he left savage wolves would come in, not sparing the flock. What does that mean if there is no danger to the flock?
But that's not the wording of the passage, "no more" sacrifice is to be understood as "not another one". Not that this one doesn't endure.
Jesus' offering was specifically "once for all" which cannot be construed as part of a series, as if he continued to offer Himself again and again.
"We" of course will refer to the writer and those included with him, but whether those be the regenerate, or the Hebrews, remains a separate question. I think the overwhelming theme of this letter is showing how the New Covenant, and Christ's offering have supremacy over the Old Covenant, and the Levitical sacrifices. He is addressing Hebrews who would be under the Old Covenant, so that they will embrace the New Covenant.
Much love!
St. Joseph
Member
But why is it a problem to be lured to Judaism if their salvation is still assured? If they are back under the Law, that means they are under the curse of the Law.
Revelation 3:14 LITV
14) And to the angel of the assembly of Laodicea, write: These things says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Head of the creation of God:
Jesus instructed John to write to the messenger of the church of Laodikea, and then personally addresses that messenger, telling him, I know your works, singular, that you, singular, are neither hot not cold, and so on.
Revelation 3:22 LITV
The one who has an ear, hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.
This tells me that anyone who can hear is to listen, and that the Spirit speaks these things to the assemblies, all of us. But we should be clear about who is being addressed, the first and direct application, secondary applications, like that.
Much love!
I don't know about that brother....it says what it says. It's specifically referring to those who have come to a knowledge of the truth, ie, believers.....who will receive the same judgment as unbelievers if they keep on willfuly sinning.
Simply put-they [the ones going back to observing the law] were never called or part of the elect--and since you brought up the elect, have you read the doctrine on election Lizbeth?
ok, I see, thanks. I'll have to come back, my brain's getting tired already and I'm late getting dinner started.
3:15 "you are neither cold nor hot" This may be an allusion to the lukewarm water that the people of this city had to drink because of the local hot springs. A similar charge is made against the church of Sardis (cf. Rev. 3:1).
3:16 "I will spit you out of My mouth" The warnings of Rev. 2:5; 3:3,16,17 are shocking when it is realized that they are addressed to the visible churches of the first century. This is not the loss of salvation, but the loss of effective ministry (cf. Rev. 3:19; Heb. 12:5-13).
3:17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'" Verses 17 and 18 are a historical allusion to Laodicea as a center of banking, a center for dyed wool, and a center for eye salve. The tragedy of their prosperity was that they thought they had so much when they had so little (cf. Rev. 3:1).
3:18 "buy from Me" This may be an allusion to Isa. 55:1-3, where God's offer of salvation was free, but described as a cost.
"white garments" See note at Rev. 3:4.
"that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed" In the OT nakedness was a sign of defeat, judgment, and poverty.
3:19 "I reprove" This Greek term elegchō is used in the sense of "to expose and thereby to heal or correct" (cf. John 3:20; Eph. 5:11-14).
"and discipline" Being disciplined by God is a sign that we are members of His family (cf. Job 5:17; Pro. 3:12; Ps. 94:12; Heb. 12:6).
"be zealous" This is a PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE. It is from the same word root as "hot" or "boiling" (zestos) used in Rev. 3:15-16. Knowing and serving God must be a flaming passion and lifestyle.
"and repent" This is an AORIST ACTIVE IMPERATIVE. There is a recurring insistence throughout these seven letters that Christians, not just unbelievers, must repent and return to Christ for maturity, stability, and joy (cf. Rev. 2:5, 16, 22; 3:3, 19). Repentance is a lifestyle, not only an initial action!
3:20 "I stand at the door and knock" This is a PERFECT ACTIVE INDICATIVE, "I stand and continue to stand at the door" followed by a PRESENT ACTIVE INDICATIVE "and continue to knock."
Although this church received no word of praise, it did receive a warm invitation. This is not the invitation to become a Christian, but rather an invitation for the church members to return to vital fellowship with Christ. This verse is often used out of context to refer to evangelism.
The metaphor of "a door" was used in the Gospels (cf. Mark 13:28-29; Luke 12:36) as a way of referring to the nearness of Christ's coming.
"if anyone hears My voice and opens the door" This is a THIRD CLASS CONDITIONAL SENTENCE implying potential but not certain action. In many parts of the world knocking is accompanied by a verbal greeting. Notice the volitional element; the person/church must respond and open the door. This is the covenantal aspect of all of God's relationships with humans. He takes the initiative, He sets the agenda, but humans must respond. Also, notice that the response is not just initial but continual. Salvation is not a product, but a lifestyle relationship. It has its ups and downs, but the existential fellowship is sure!
"I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me" This is an allusion to the peace offering (cf. Leviticus 3; and 7), a time of fellowship where God symbolically ate with the offerer. Others see this as a reference to the eschatological Messianic banquet.
The term used here for a meal is the one used for the meal at the end of the day, which was the major time of family fellowship and companionship. In the East eating has always been a sign of covenant, friendship, and fellowship.
3:21 "I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne," This is a powerful image of intimate fellowship and inclusion. There are many allusions in the NT to believers' reigning with Christ (cf. Rev. 2:26, 27; Luke 22:30; Matt. 19:28; 1 Cor. 6:2 ff; 2 Tim 2:12; Rev. 20:4). Revelation 22:5 implies Christians' eternal reign with Christ.
"as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne" It is wonderful to know that Jesus has already overcome the world (cf. John 16:33; Eph. 1:21-22) and that He is already seated at the Father's right hand (cf. Eph. 1:20; 1 John 2:1 and Rev. 22:1) and that He wants us to join Him in His victory!
Galatians 3:2-3 KJV
2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3) Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
I think Paul is continuing in the same thought, whether we "finish" our salvation with works, and how we've fallen from "the grace in which we stand" if we rely on our works, something else besides Christ to make us acceptible, or keep us acceptible to God.
Much love!
This clearly the case here,
Revelation 2:5 KJV
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Much love!
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