The Crippling Effects of Christian Dogma - Mindless Parroting of Apologetics
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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The call for doctrinal unity has gone out across the centuries.
Are we there yet? (not by a long shot)
Where is the problem?
Perhaps it is in the assumption that the unity of the faith is doctrinal unity.
- Can there be unity of the faith that overlooks doctrinal differences?
- Does the Body of Christ have room for differing views on doctrine?
- What would the church look like if we didn't label differing views as BAD or FALSE doctrines?
- Is a differing view unbiblical simply because it doesn't agree with our own biblical position?
- Can two opposing views BOTH be biblical, if biblical evidence to support each view is given?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Agree.
I'm in favor of discipleship.
But the programming (deprogramming?) the church does is disturbing to me.
Like the book titled: Know What You Believe
Say what? - LOL
I can imagine the epiphany of the author.
"Christians today don't even know what they believe. I should write a book."
We certainly need to have a transformed mind, but should this be an act of re-education?
And frankly, the apologetics that are taught are a house of cards.
Most of the "proof-texts" don't prove the claims being made.
What does that tell you?
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In the same way we have learned to understand and respect cultural diversity,
we should learn to understand and respect doctrinal diversity.
Can Catholics and Protestants respect one another despite our doctrinal differences? (yes)
What about Baptists and Pentecostals? (yes) You name it. How far apart can we get?
Build bridges, not walls.
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Seems that biblical understanding has more to do with religious upbringing and environment than the content of the Bible.
I imagine that a young Catholic learns that Mary is the Mother of God based on the statement of the angel,
“Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” - Luke 1:28 NIV
I was raised Protestant, so I am only guessing at how that actually happens in Catholicism.
But obviously an environment with statues of Mary and Rosary beads has a lot of impact on the meaning.
This creates a religious preconception.
As a Protestant, we read past that statement without dwelling on it much.
To us, it was a story about Jesus and his earthly mother. This also creates a religious preconception.
As the young person, whether Catholic or Protestant, matures in their religious upbringing,
these compounded preconceptions form a doctrinal understanding. A basis to work from; a point of view.
When this maturing person hears something outside the realm of their religious preconception, it strikes them as wrong.
Apologetics are there to bolster one's own religious preconceptions. They have theirs, and you have yours.
This is where the battle lines are drawn. "We believe such and so, because..."
As I have often quipped...
It's easy to identify a religious cult. They meet in the church across the street from your church.
And they feel the same way about you. --- Where does this leave us?
Choice of doctrine is driven by religious preconception - Spirituality is an individualized journey
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Much discussion in another area of the forum about UNITY and what it means, and doesn't mean.
Many seek doctrinal unity.
But we discovered that they haven't accounted for the necessary compromise to make that happen.
What they really want is for everyone to JOIN their doctrinal tribe so that UNITY will happen.
Basically unity through division. Tribalism. You are in if you agree, and out if you don't.
I think it is wrong to label that as unity, as if tribalism is a virtue.
I think unity of the faith has to do with accepting and respecting others with doctrine differing from our own.
An emphasis on understanding one another rather than trying to correct each other.
- Can there be doctrinal unity without compromise?
- Can there be unity of the faith without conflict?
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No and No.
The masses of a particular faith group will not compromise doctrine that they see as God's words and expectations. For the unity folks it would be like trying to nail jello to the wall. I can't imagine unity because our doctrinal perspectives are the strongest beliefs we hold. I think the best we can do is tolerate our differences. One problem for me is that I feel obligated to inform and instruct other doctrines to accept mine as it is the real truth. All of the varying doctrines think that same thing. It's like a dog chasing it's tail. Kinda like we do on this forum?
I wrote several topics on unity trying to figure this out myself.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Being "in Christ" is spiritual unity. The Holy Spirit lives in us and so we are united with God. However, though many are unified in the Body of believers with eachother (loving eachother, understanding the fundamentals and within their congregations), our fleshly nature, pride, ignorance, and sinful behavior get in the way of being unified with each other completely.
A war is going on between the spirit and the flesh within each of us AND our spirit with their flesh and their spirit with our flesh. We are still sinners, we know in part, behave on different levels of maturity and so this is the problem why we are not all on the same page and in unity with eachother.
A war is going on between the spirit and the flesh within each of us AND our spirit with their flesh and their spirit with our flesh. We are still sinners, we know in part, behave on different levels of maturity and so this is the problem why we are not all on the same page and in unity with eachother.
Hello deconstruction.
Atheism, is the obvious over-reaction to escaping a religious upbringing.
Study on this issue shows people going in many different directions both toward and away from religion.
This video outlines the frustration involved in deconstruction.
youtube]Mxgx5QAYMrU
Let's discuss.
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Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
My experience of this is that tackling harder topics in an educational setting leads to MORE divisions and disagreements.
The 'deeper walk' works better when it's more 'walk' and less 'deep.' Go and DO something together for your community. Weed someone's garden. Run a bake sale and use the proceeds to pay someone's utility bills this month. That sort of thing.
Behold
Well-Known Member
That is exactly to way to not walk according to the Spirit.
See, "Mind" and "efffort" is the enemy of "Victory in Christ" as The Power to "live it', is to deny yourself any self effort to try to do it.
CHRISTianity, is the ETERNAL Life of God become Spiritual Union with the BELIEVER.... who is Born again by it.
To "abide in Christ" is not to try to do that, by effort and will power, as when you do that... Jesus say to you.. "apart from me, you can do NOTHING"..
"apart from me" means....>"by your willpower, is not my Spirit, sayeth the Lord".
Here is a way to get this understanding.
Reader, when you try to DO Christianity, then God rests.. and when you REST from all your trying to be like Christ, then God works in you so that you become ... = "I can do ALL things Through Christ, who strengthens you".
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Davy
Well-Known Member
God prophesied it would be this way at the end, that there would be a famine, not for bread or water, but for hearing The Word of God; looking everywhere for it and not finding it...
Amos 8:11-12
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
KJV
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Sayeth the Lord? Did you just take your own words and try to ascribe them to God? Do you claim to be a prophet now?
In contradiction, the Bible says...
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phil Chapter 2)
Behold
Well-Known Member
All things Spiritual, are "by my Spirit, sayeth the Lord", if they are related to CHRISTianity.
What's the alternative?
- A forever burning hell? Is that less frustrating?
- Incineration of the wicked? Is that more logical?
To what end? If your children misbehaved would you put them in an oven?
There seems to be a much more logical and merciful solution.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Christ rejectors are not "incinerated",........ as Hell, then the Lake of fire do not incinerate.
See, "damnation" is not temporary, as its actually the eternal life of the Christ Rejector.. so, it'll last for as long as the CHRIST whom they rejected.
He'll be around for quite sometimes, as will their "2nd Death".
@St. SteVen You are watching way too much Sci-Fi.. or is it L. Ron Hubbard who has you up and running?
Just curious.... as He also does not have any use for eternal damnation (or the bible).
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